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Was there a gate called "the eye of a needle" or was Jesus talking about a literal 1st century needle and a camel?
When the larger city gates were closed for the night, the only way to enter was through a much smaller gate. A camel could only enter if it was down on its knees and its baggage removed. To equate it to a modern sewing needle would be to change the meaning of the verse, with one being difficult and the other being impossible.![]()
Was there a gate called "the eye of a needle" or was Jesus talking about a literal 1st century needle and a camel?
When the larger city gates were closed for the night, the only way to enter was through a much smaller gate. A camel could only enter if it was down on its knees and its baggage removed. To equate it to a modern sewing needle would be to change the meaning of the verse, with one being difficult and the other being impossible.![]()
I agree with all of this. I have seen video of a camel doing this but it takes a very skilled handler and well trained and amiable camel, to make it happen. I also agree that there is a lot of dispute as to whether the eye of the needle was an actual gate or that it was more of a common way of referencing the experience of trying to enter through these gates. I can imagine the analogy and the annoyance of having to try and fit through these small spaces, compared to going through the easy and large city gates. I think for me, the final takeaway is that it is not impossible for the wealthy to come to Christ but it is uncomfortable, difficult and requires sacrifice. I think it is also a good caution against the thinking that God's blessing automatically means financial wealth. Sometimes, it is more of an obstacle to acknowledging our daily need of his grace and help. Thank you for starting this thread.That there were such openings I think we have sufficient archaeological evidence for but that any of them were called the eye of the needle and that Jesus was referring to one of these openings is questionable and hardly likely. For these reasons 1) there is no such record of calling them that. The first time it ever shows up in writing it is given as a possible explanation from someone in the middle ages.
The only references to using the phrase "eye of the needle" at the time of Christ were rabbinical references to an elephant going through the eye of an needle and it was meant to mockingly refer to what if scenarios that will never actually happen. (I think, I have forgotten exactly what it was about but it literally referred to a needle, howbeit larger than today still impossible for a camel. So if they were using references to elephants going through the eye of a needle at the time of Christ and there is no evidence that any wall openings were called the eye of a needle (though wall openings did exist) it is more likely that the disciples would have understood him as saying it is impossible.
And of course it would mean that those who hoard wealth for themselves and are not rich toward God are showing the fruit of a regenerated heart. Of course with God all things are possible and some are liberal supporters of the ministry and no matter how much they give the Lord blesses their business and they keep making money. Investments can do that. And yet without the supernatural power of the Holy Spirit rich men will not focus on the kingdom of God. This I think is what he is saying. It is not impossible with God.
Now here is another commonly preached myth that sounds good but has been determined to have started in the middle ages and has no support from any other more ancient source. And yet preachers will preach 30 minutes on the spiritual application of stripping ourselves from the things that keep us from entering into... what? I don't know... Kingdom of God?.. .His plan for our lives?.... Heaven? ... Jerusalem? I suppose they can preach whatever they want since it is not in the scriptures and they are making it up as they go.
I have heard them all. The latest one was in the value of getting down on your knees and crawling through the opening. Now I am not sure if you can get a camel to do that or not, but that is what was preached as though Jesus had all this in mind when he made the statement.
There is no writing from history to support such a gate existed... named "eye of the needle"
Matthew 19:24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.” 25 When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished, saying, “Who then can be saved?” 26 But Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”
Jesus is using hyperbole to make a very important point.. a real camel cannot go through the real eye of a needle. No one can save themselves.
From the context, "Who then can be saved?"
It takes an act of God who makes all things possible. Only God is able to do what is necessary to save us.
You are correct. There is no direct indication that the "eye of the needle" is a gate. And the Lord could have been using an extreme example. But I think that scripture gives a connection. In ...
Matthew 19:24 the entry into the Kingdom of God is through the "eye of the needle"
24 "And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God."
But in Matthew 7:13-14, entry into LIFE is by a narrow gate
13 "Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."
But in Matthew 18:3-9 "entering LIFE" is equated with the ENTERING the Kingdom
3 "And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
...
8 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.
9 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire."
I guess, without being dogmatic, a case for the "eye of the needle" being a gate can be made.
I am not so sure that a case can be made at all. If we stick to the rules of hermeneutics we have to be honest about this and conclude that if there was no instance in ancient literature for that phrase at the time of Christ except for howit was written in the Rabbinical writings...
The Babylonian Talmud applies the aphorism to unthinkable thoughts. To explain that dreams reveal the thoughts of a man's heart and are the product of reason rather than the absence of it, some rabbis say:
They do not show a man a palm tree of gold, nor an elephant going through the eye of a needle.[1]
And if there were other references like this one in the Talmud that might have been used and heard by the disciples in like manner we must conclude that that they would have had this kind of meaning in mind and not of a gate since there is no evidence that anyone ever called the opening in the wall by this name. It is not proper hermeneutics to use an idea invented in the 15th century or possibly the 9th century and put confidence in it that the disciples knew of such a phrase or could have had such a thought.
However we do have evidence that there did exist at their time this phrase of "an elephant going through the eye of a needle" in the Bablyonian Talmud which they probably had heard used in their life time by those who were familiar with the Babylonian Talmud and quoted from it, and it could have been a common phrase to make a point. This is strong CULTURAL CONTEXT evidence that Jesus was using the phrase in this way and not about a wall opening that is not mentioned by any Church writer for a thousand years of church history writings.
That is immaterial. This figure of speech was meant to illustrate the impossibility of entering the Kingdom of God by any means other that Christ Himself.Was there a gate called "the eye of a needle" or was Jesus talking about a literal 1st century needle and a camel?
That is immaterial. This figure of speech was meant to illustrate the impossibility of entering the Kingdom of God by any means other that Christ Himself.
To rich men wealth was (and is) their god and does become a stumbling block to salvation (as we see in the narrative of the Rich Young Ruler). Therefore they would need to turn their backs on wealth and turn wholly to Christ. "But with God all things are possible" indicates that God can turn idolatrous hearts to Christ by His grace.
I also see a literal impossibility rather than a difficulty that Jesus was talking about. We also have other parables like the one about the man who stores up for himself but is not rich toward God and is called a fool because his soul would be required of him that day. This suggests that things did not go well for his eternal state. Rich people who hoard up for themselves and are not engaged in supporting the church mission for world evangelism cause their faith to be suspect. Not that giving saves you but it will be a fruit of a saved heart and that is why With God all things are Possible, and it shows the work of God on their hearts if they are givers but also shows they have not had a regenerated heart if they are hoarders. And yet we can't take this too far as we see people who are rich giving out of their abundance but still not rich toward God. What does it profit if they save the whole world from a virus but do nothing toward the salvation of their souls?I see it differently. The rich man was an Israelite and he had kept the Law. The Law promised wealth if kept. Notice the wording. God's name is at stake.
"But thou shalt remember the LORD thy God: for it is he that giveth thee power to get wealth, that he may establish his covenant which he sware unto thy fathers, as it is this day" (Deuteronomy 8:18)
Covetousness is always present, but this was not the issue. The issue was whether the rich man could go the New Way. That is, could he set aside this world NOW in order to gain it when Christ set up His Kingdom. According to the prophets, especially Daniel, the Gentiles would have their time to rule, but that at a certain time Christ would wrest it away from them, crush their political, economical and military might. This is the subject at hand. Because Christ was being rejected by Israel, He would have to gather a New People to be rulers of the earth (Matt. 21:43; Act.15:14-16). And the TRAINING needed for these people to be free of the present world system, was the preparedness to forsake it wealth. The co-kings of Christ in the next age must be men and women who have learned to receive their supply from God and not the world.
The rich young man had no apparent fault. He had kept the Law and received its temporal reward. But the righteousness achieved by Law was inadequate for the Kingdom that Christ would set up. To receive an inheritance in this Kingdom, a man must be:
The rich man had recognized Who Jesus was. In Matthew 19:17 he called Him "good" in the knowledge that only God was good. But he was asked to take the same road as his "Master" and King - the road of foresaking the present age all for a future Kingdom. This he was not capable off. And nor are many Christians. The last Church of Revelation Chapters 2 and 3, Loadicea, was wealthy but void of Christ. Their wealth had made them shut a door against Christ. This is how the returning Christ will find His Church - fully immersed in the worlds wealth (Rev.18:4). Frightening!
- born again for this Kingdom (Jn.3:3)
- Baptized for this Kingdom (Jn.3:5)
- lose your "soul" - life (Matt.16:25)
- deny your flesh daily (Matt.16:24)
- have a righteousness exceeding that of the Pharisees (Matt:5:20)
- be innocent of the sins mentioned in in Galatians 5:21 and Ephesians 5:5
- undergo a transforming work of character (2nd Pet.1:5-11)
- be resurrected with a body of celestial glory, or changed in body (1st Cor.15:35, 40, 50-53)
I also see a literal impossibility rather than a difficulty that Jesus was talking about. We also have other parables like the one about the man who stores up for himself but is not rich toward God and is called a fool because his soul would be required of him that day. This suggests that things did not go well for his eternal state. Rich people who hoard up for themselves and are not engaged in supporting the church mission for world evangelism cause their faith to be suspect. Not that giving saves you but it will be a fruit of a saved heart and that is why With God all things are Possible, and it shows the work of God on their hearts if they are givers but also shows they have not had a regenerated heart if they are hoarders. And yet we can't take this too far as we see people who are rich giving out of their abundance but still not rich toward God. What does it profit if they save the whole world from a virus but do nothing toward the salvation of their souls?
Well Jesus said you have to be like a little child to enter the kingdom AND the way was narrow so maybe He WAS implying some kind of size restriction!
Im sure they did have needles and thread back in the day as then how were their clothes stitched together.
The point of the parable is you cant take your riches with you. Camels were like the big trucks of their day. They were used on the Silk Road to transport luxury goods.
There is no writing from history to support such a gate existed... named "eye of the needle"
Matthew 19:24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.” 25 When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished, saying, “Who then can be saved?” 26 But Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”
Jesus is using hyperbole to make a very important point.. a real camel cannot go through the real eye of a needle. No one can save themselves.
From the context, "Who then can be saved?"
It takes an act of God who makes all things possible. Only God is able to do what is necessary to save us.