James' warning letter.

[John146]

See Revelation 7.

Those are Jews in the tribulation, not Christians.

 

[John146]

The term is actually an eschatological reference and has been argued by commentators such as Moo to refer to Christians as an early manner of giving a general audience rather than restricting it to a single cities occupants. The reference is to identify the time period we are living in rather than the people as the only tribes that are identifiable still are Judah and to a lesser extent Benjamin. The other tribes are and were pretty much entirely lost in human terms.

That contradicts every other usage of that term throughout scripture. I’m not willing to do that.

 

[Bbrdrd]

That contradicts every other usage of that term throughout scripture. I’m not willing to do that.

I don't see how, as it is persistently used as a spiritual community up until the time of the 2nd temple rather than strictly being the physical descendants of Abraham. I haven't articulated the full argument from Moo and others but it is essentially that to James those who respond positively to the gospel are in fact members of the lost tribes of Israel being re-gathered in fulfillment of the promises that Israel would not remain dispersed and lost forever.

 

[Logos]

Jesus died for each and every member of humankind, to defeat death that we in turn might have eternal life with Him..

What does Matthew 15:24 mean to you?

 

[John146]

I don't see how, as it is persistently used as a spiritual community up until the time of the 2nd temple rather than strictly being the physical descendants of Abraham. I haven't articulated the full argument from Moo and others but it is essentially that to James those who respond positively to the gospel are in fact members of the lost tribes of Israel being re-gathered in fulfillment of the promises that Israel would not remain dispersed and lost forever.

Never a spiritual community but God’s physical people Israel. I am not a member of the twelve tribes, but the body of Christ where there is no Jew or Gentile.

 

[Bbrdrd]

Never a spiritual community but God’s physical people Israel. I am not a member of the twelve tribes, but the body of Christ where there is no Jew or Gentile.

The twelve tribes were certainly a kingdom, but it was always a spiritual community entered through circumcision which is why all of Abraham's servants were included in the initial circumcision. The question is authorial intent and there is evidence that 12 tribes at the time of writing was being used in an end times sense regarding the promises of God.

I'm not saying this is absolutely the case, merely that an argument can and has been made in which the 12 tribes appelation is directed not simply at physical descendants of Abraham but to all the heirs of Abraham. Just as Paul in Romans states that not all Israel is Israel precisely because Israel has always been a spiritual reality rather than a strictly physical one.

 

[Guojing]

The twelve tribes were certainly a kingdom, but it was always a spiritual community entered through circumcision which is why all of Abraham's servants were included in the initial circumcision. The question is authorial intent and there is evidence that 12 tribes at the time of writing was being used in an end times sense regarding the promises of God.

I'm not saying this is absolutely the case, merely that an argument can and has been made in which the 12 tribes appelation is directed not simply at physical descendants of Abraham but to all the heirs of Abraham. Just as Paul in Romans states that not all Israel is Israel precisely because Israel has always been a spiritual reality rather than a strictly physical one.

So you are using the popular argument

Israel is spiritual
We are spiritual
Therefore we are Israel?

 

[Bbrdrd]

So you are using the popular argument

Israel is spiritual
We are spiritual
Therefore we are Israel?

Not exactly, what is meant by Israel varies in the Bible. In places it refers to the kingdom that has Deuteronomy as its federal documents and God as king. What I am stating is limited to the possible uses for the opening of James rather than a sweeping statement.