The Rapture Thief Robs Jesuit Futurism Of The 7 Years Of Tribulation

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PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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Nothing in that verse which demands the escape immediately precedes the standing. Moreover, Jesus prayed for God to NOT take the saints out of this world, but to keep them from the evil, obviously while yet therein. Are you suggesting Jesus' prayer was not answered? Many examples of God's preserving power are illustrated in the Bible, so the idea that the only way God can preserve His saints is to completely remove them from the Earth is unreasonable.
Of course they escaped by fleeing to Pella.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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Why can't you futurists accept that Christ returned to His generation as He so often said He would?
 
Aug 3, 2019
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Reread it.
They were killed/murdered by the devil.
All but John.

Compare to the gt.
All are murdered refusing the mark.
No protection in either dynamic.
Is it possible to gain the victory over the enemy WITHOUT dying? (Hint: 1 John 4:4 KJV)
 
Aug 3, 2019
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Why can't you futurists accept that Christ returned to His generation as He so often said He would?
I'm not a Jesuit Futurist or a Jesuit Preterist such as yourself: I am a PROTESTANT HISTORICIST and I assure you Jesus did not return in the first century because 1 Peter 3:10 KJV is not yet fulfilled.
 
Aug 3, 2019
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No that is not rev 14.
Rev 14 is 3 harvests.
After the first 2 Angel's preach the gospel.
There is no humans preaching.
They are all being seated at the marriage feast.
Jesus is depicted in the clouds with a sickle harvesting ripe fruit.

Before that event the 144k are in heaven. Firstfruits jews.
They can not be firstfruit jews without a subsequent main harvest..

The last harvest of rev 14 is not by Jesus. Angel's gather the wicked.
This post only serves to show your lack of eschatological knowledge and consistency of interpretation. LITERAL ANGELS were never given the Gospel commission (Matthew 28:19-20 KJV; Acts 10:1-6 KJV) and in the cases of the Ethiopian and Saul, the Gospel was declared to them by those to whom God HAS COMMISSIONED it: redeemed saints. The "three angels" are symbolic of "three messages" that are being preached by those who ARE COMMISSIONED to preach it which, again, are the redeemed saints.
 
Aug 3, 2019
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Yet we see it with enoch,Elijah, the saints in 1 thes 4,and the ripe fruit jewish remnant in rev 14.

Your deal is riddled with holes.

Clever spiritualizing of future events is poor exegesis.
Why do you appeal to isolated events like these and totally ignore the countless times God preserved His people during tribulation times, such as Noah's Ark during the Flood, the 7 Last PLagues, the Red Sea, Daniel in the Lion's Den, the Three Hebrew Worthies in the Fiery Furnace, the Death Decree in Medo-Persia, Peter's arrest and death sentence, Paul and Silas' in jail --- which of these needed to be taken from this world in order to pass safely through tribulation? Ah, not a one, right?
 

GaryA

Truth, Honesty, Love, Courage
Aug 10, 2019
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I'm not a Jesuit Futurist or a Jesuit Preterist such as yourself: I am a PROTESTANT HISTORICIST and I assure you Jesus did not return in the first century because 1 Peter 3:10 KJV is not yet fulfilled.
How about 2 Peter 3:10 ?
 

GaryA

Truth, Honesty, Love, Courage
Aug 10, 2019
9,796
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Is it possible to gain the victory over the enemy WITHOUT dying? (Hint: 1 John 4:4 KJV)
Your 'Hint' verse is not conclusive on the matter.

What verse(s)/passage(s) do you have intent to apply this to?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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...which of these needed to be taken from this world in order to pass safely through tribulation? Ah, not a one, right?
The fact of the matter is that there is no biblical connection between the Tribulation and the Resurrection/Rapture. It is being forced together by some who fail to understand God's plans and purposes. The Resurrection/Rapture is all about SALVATION, whereas the Tribulation is all about JUDGMENT and DAMNATION. Therefore there cannot be a connection.

Lot and his family were removed from Sodom by angels, after which judgment and damnation came upon Sodom and Gomorrah. There is an object lesson for you to mull over.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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Is it possible to gain the victory over the enemy WITHOUT dying? (Hint: 1 John 4:4 KJV)
Jesus died. He got the victory through death.

Now satan is defeated.

The bible specifically says "they overcame"....and..."they loved not their lives unto death"

It also says "power was given to the ac to overcome the saints". Plus i already showed you where no protection is given to martyrs. (that is how the enemy kills the saints)

Early on in the trib we see an "innumerable number" in heaven killed during the trib.....MARTYRED.
.....no PROTECTION.
MILLIONS/BILLIONS BEHEADED.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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Your 'Hint' verse is not conclusive on the matter.

What verse(s)/passage(s) do you have intent to apply this to?
Well,victory for the most part is 2 fold.

I can walk in victory through the person and work of Jesus.
Victory has been gotten through Jesus,and I can walk in victory.

but check this out and it it solidifies my point that no protection is afforded the saints in the gt.

rev 15 ;1
And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.

2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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Why do you appeal to isolated events like these and totally ignore the countless times God preserved His people during tribulation times, such as Noah's Ark during the Flood, the 7 Last PLagues, the Red Sea, Daniel in the Lion's Den, the Three Hebrew Worthies in the Fiery Furnace, the Death Decree in Medo-Persia, Peter's arrest and death sentence, Paul and Silas' in jail --- which of these needed to be taken from this world in order to pass safely through tribulation? Ah, not a one, right?
Jesus framed the noah analogy PRE FLOOD.

Noah removed and in the ark PRE FLOOD.

jUDGEMENT CAME RAPIDLY AND SWALLOWED UP EVERY LIVING THING.
Noah was carried miles into the sky via the water.
Noah returned to earth POST FLOOD.

Vivid depiction of the rapture.

The "one taken" of mat 24 is also framed pretrib/judgement.

Immeditely in mat 24 the one taken is framed in "be ready"

38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

100% pretrib rapture.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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post trib analogy needs Jesus framing the rapture AFTER THE FLOOD AND SODOM.

Lot removed AFTER sodoms judgement.

Noah leaving earth AFTER THE FLOOD.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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Why do you appeal to isolated events like these and totally ignore the countless times God preserved His people during tribulation times, such as Noah's Ark during the Flood, the 7 Last PLagues, the Red Sea, Daniel in the Lion's Den, the Three Hebrew Worthies in the Fiery Furnace, the Death Decree in Medo-Persia, Peter's arrest and death sentence, Paul and Silas' in jail --- which of these needed to be taken from this world in order to pass safely through tribulation? Ah, not a one, right?
Well,you just ignored my verses to try and frame a protection of saints in the gt.

....which isn't there.

Also not in rev 14 angels begin to preach the gospel....indicating all the humans are seated at the wedding feast table.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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This post only serves to show your lack of eschatological knowledge and consistency of interpretation. LITERAL ANGELS were never given the Gospel commission (Matthew 28:19-20 KJV; Acts 10:1-6 KJV) and in the cases of the Ethiopian and Saul, the Gospel was declared to them by those to whom God HAS COMMISSIONED it: redeemed saints. The "three angels" are symbolic of "three messages" that are being preached by those who ARE COMMISSIONED to preach it which, again, are the redeemed saints.
Re read it
"6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, "

Angels COMISSIONED to preach the gospel.

Why?

Ask yourself why.
could it be the saints are all in heaven?
 
Jul 23, 2018
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Nothing in that verse which demands the escape immediately precedes the standing. Moreover, Jesus prayed for God to NOT take the saints out of this world, but to keep them from the evil, obviously while yet therein. Are you suggesting Jesus' prayer was not answered? Many examples of God's preserving power are illustrated in the Bible, so the idea that the only way God can preserve His saints is to completely remove them from the Earth is unreasonable.
That dynamic is not one dimensional.
You framed it as such.

God protects us all the time. we see testimony after testimony,millions of testimonies.

BUT........
Saints get martyred.

Are you aware of martyrdom????

It is not "either<> or"

WE embrace BOTH DYNAMICS
 
Jul 23, 2018
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Post-trib doctrine doesn't limit the journey to just the clouds - we join Jesus in the air and return to heaven with Him to live and reign for 1,000 years. I've never heard of anyone claiming the clouds are the final destination.
nope
the 1k reign is on earth.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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Where does it say that? Revelation 14 is the final warning message that goes to the world, and only my church is preaching it - 1) The Judgment Hour has arrived and God is calling us back to worshiping Him alone as Creator and to evidence that by keeping His commandments, 2) the Babylonian global apostate false religious confederacy headed up by the Papacy is fallen and we are to come out of her before it's too late, and 3) don't take the Mark of the Beast.

Most people have no idea who the Beast is, and yet are foolishly confident they know what the Mark of the Beast is...like claiming to know the favorite dessert of the person in front of you at the drive thru without having the slightest idea who they are.
parable of the wedding guests
parable of the 10 virgins.
the first miracle....water into wine
the dialogue at the last supper.
Mat 24 One taken preflood
Jesus framing the rapture pre flood/pre sodom judgement
rev 19
ac kills all refusing the mark
The 2 escape verses......which are NOT the 2 stay verses.
The purposes of God
the bride /groom dynamic
The not appointed to wrath dynamic.


all that is not going away.
it is only left out in your circles.
it is all new to you and must be reframed...which is what you are doing.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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Post-trib doctrine doesn't limit the journey to just the clouds - we join Jesus in the air and return to heaven with Him to live and reign for 1,000 years. I've never heard of anyone claiming the clouds are the final destination.
postrbs say we are raptured to the clouds to get on horses and return to earth. a uturn in the sky.
so....no heaven for them
 
Jul 23, 2018
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Absolutely said;
Lol rev 14 has a Jesus gathering of ripe fruit during the gt.

Pssst...that would be before you say the dead are raised.
Where does it say that? Revelation 14 is the final warning message that goes to the world, and only my church is preaching it - 1) The Judgment Hour has arrived and God is calling us back to worshiping Him alone as Creator and to evidence that by keeping His commandments, 2) the Babylonian global apostate false religious confederacy headed up by the Papacy is fallen and we are to come out of her before it's too late, and 3) don't take the Mark of the Beast.

Most people have no idea who the Beast is, and yet are foolishly confident they know what the Mark of the Beast is...like claiming to know the favorite dessert of the person in front of you at the drive thru without having the slightest idea who they are.
Where does it say that? Revelation 14 is the final warning message that goes to the world, and only my church is preaching it
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.