Calvinist Kitchen...stirring the pot

[ForestGreenCook]

Not all men are given special revelation.
God grants repentance Acts 11:18

I learned my lesson the hard way, of not having the revelation of the Holy Spirit, by not denying my own entelect for 12 years of my life.

You and I, probably, have a different view on some of the scriptures mention the word "life" in them.

I believe that God has granted a good and abundant life here on earth that we can enjoy by walking in the Spirit, and obeying his instructions as how he wants us to live our lives as we sojourn here on earth.

Some of the "life" scriptures are referencing a life here on earth, which demands some works that we must do, and some of the "life" scriptures are referencing eternal life.

My clue, is when the scripture says that there is something that we have to do to have the life mentioned, it will be referencing the good and abundant life here on earth.

Salvation, according to Greek interpretation means= "a deliverance" After we have been regenerated, and are disobedient to God, he chastens us, and we lose our fellowship with him (temporarily) because God will not fellowship with sin. When our new heart of flesh is pricked, and we repent, along with God's forgiveness, we are delivered (saved) from the effects of that sin, and are back in good fellowship with God.

There are two life's to consider, and there are also two salvations (deliverances) to consider.

 

[awelight]

Real Christian's have always believed these truths.Why you think
they are elite is your imagination I suppose.

They really don't think that we, who believe that Salvation is all of God, are elite. They just simply are guilty of attacking the messenger, when they don't like the message. Just as the religionist of Christ' day attacked Him for His message. Remember what our Lord said:

(John 15:18) If the world hateth you, ye know that it hath hated me before it hated you.

I wonder how many of these, that defend the doctrine of "FREE WILL" are or have been hated by their families, fiends and others. I know I have, even to the extent that family, the ones who are religious, will have nothing to do with me because of what I have proclaimed to them in a witness. The fact that I am hated and they are loved by this world system, gives me great hope that I am secure in my Lord.

Those that oppose the doctrine, we call, "FREE GRACE", oppose it because:

(Luke 19:14) But his citizens hated him, and sent an ambassador after him, saying, We will not that this man reign over us.

But let us who do hold to these truths, remember also: For if not for the grace of God, so go I. If we then, boast, let our boasting be in Jesus Christ. Let us walk in humility, even though it is sometimes difficult BUT let us not shrink from holy indignation.

Just a thought.....

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Scripture please: Book, chapter, verse.
God grants the opportunity to all men. Some embrace the opportunity, others do not.

Read about the natural man in 1 Cor 2:14, and you will find out about "the other that do not" The only people who will take action on the opportunity are those "all men" that have been quickened ro the new spiritual life. The other men thinks that the things of the Spirit are foolishness, and he cannot understand them.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

They really don't think that we, who believe that Salvation is all of God, are elite. They just simply are guilty of attacking the messenger, when they don't like the message. Just as the religionist of Christ' day attacked Him for His message. Remember what our Lord said:

(John 15:18) If the world hateth you, ye know that it hath hated me before it hated you.

I wonder how many of these, that defend the doctrine of "FREE WILL" are or have been hated by their families, fiends and others. I know I have, even to the extent that family, the ones who are religious, will have nothing to do with me because of what I have proclaimed to them in a witness. The fact that I am hated and they are loved by this world system, gives me great hope that I am secure in my Lord.

Those that oppose the doctrine, we call, "FREE GRACE", oppose it because:

(Luke 19:14) But his citizens hated him, and sent an ambassador after him, saying, We will not that this man reign over us.

But let us who do hold to these truths, remember also: For if not for the grace of God, so go I. If we then, boast, let our boasting be in Jesus Christ. Let us walk in humility, even though it is sometimes difficult BUT let us not shrink from holy indignation.

Just a thought.....

One thing that I disagree with Calvin, from what I have been told about him, is that I believe that God has given mankind the freedom to choose out his changes as he sojourns here on earth, but man's eternal destination is determined by the sovereign grace of God, without any assistance from man.

 

[Jimbone]

It is kind of hard for me to leave it at that, when there are other scriptures that contradicts your interpretations of those scriptures.

I would hope that you would not want to disregard some scriptures, just because they contradict your interpretation of other scriptures.

I try to include all of the scriptures, and compare them to see if they harmonize with each other.

I used to have scriptures that, seemingly, contradicted each other, and it troubled me very much, realising that they should all harmonize. I spent 12 years of diligent study, thinking that I was smart enough to figure it out, with the help of a Greek concordance. After 12 years, I gave up and thought that I would have to spend the rest of my life without understanding the scriptures. I learned very soon, that if I had denied my entelect at the beginning of my studies , the Holy Spirit within me would have revealed some truths to me much sooner. I presume that he knew that if he had revealed earlier, I would have taken credit myself, instead of giving God the credit.

Awesome testimony brother. Dead on. He gets ALL glory.

My testimony contradicts the whole "we make the choice" narrative, as in God cannot save us if we don't want to let Him God that is restricted by mans will, nonsense. I did make the "choice", I went right up front when called, repeated the prayer, heck was even baptized a little later for good measure and was declared saved, when I wasn't. I kept hearing "we will always be sinners", "look at Paul, he says he does the things he shouldn't, and doesn't do the things he should", all these things that work to deceive the false convert. Never preached anything about a change, nothing about an actual spiritual resurrection in us, nothing about being made whole, nope, always a justification to stay in sin without guilt. Please before anyone gets mad at me yet, I'm not saying these things aren't true, of course. This is Gods word and to the reborn able to see these spiritual truths clearly they are all sound of course. But to the unbeliever, specifically the false convert in this case, these things preached unbalanced can result in false converts that think they are saved.

In my case this was really highlighted after a motorcycle wreak that happen while thinking I was saved. Losing the use of my dominate arm forever sent me on a downward spiral I had no control over. All I wanted was to die for two years, but even though I had an easy way out due to the fact I have no feeling in my right arm at all, I was stuck here because I had two sons and I knew that no body that took my place here, if anyone even did, would love them like I did. Their father. So I was stuck. Like I said for two years I fought this every day, wanting to die, wanting to die, no hope, no way out, couldn't control my thoughts about it at all, until I had enough.

One day at home all alone I finally see "my way" for the futile demonstration it was. I saw my whole life for the meaningless hopeless garbage it truly was and I broke. I hit my knees blubbering, I was giving up. If I had ever believed in God, I didn't then, I did not call God, I did not call Jesus, I did not call for anyone or anything, I cried out "I can't do this anymore I can't do this anymore, I can't do this anymore! World you win, I lose,I QUIT!!!!

See I made no decision at all for God in this moment. So when I did "make my decision", when I chose God in my head I was not saved. From what I read on here there are many that would argue at that point I was saved, even when I say I wasn't. I can assure you I wasn't, God had His hand on me then, and learning that was for a purpose, but I was NOT saved at all. After the second episode when I did not make any decision other than "I QUIT THE WORLD", I woke up the next day a whole new man, and God is the one that told me this time. It wasn't until lunch at work the next day that it hit me, and hit me hard. After two years of suicidal thoughts every 5 minutes of every day at lunchtime Sept. 29th 2013, at 33 years of age, I realized "I HAVEN'T THOUGHT ABOUT KILLING MYSELF ALL DAY!!!!!!!!!!". It was right in this moment I knew that whatever happen, it was God, and I knew Jesus was His Son.

I could go on and on, but with this much my point is made. When I thought I made the decision I was not saved, and when I had no idea that God was GRANTING me repentance, I woke up new the next day, and He is the one that declared me saved. Holla-Boo-Ya!!! Praise our mighty King. He saves us, our choice doesn't "allow" Him to do His will.

 

[Iconoclast]

I learned my lesson the hard way, of not having the revelation of the Holy Spirit, by not denying my own entelect for 12 years of my life.

You and I, probably, have a different view on some of the scriptures mention the word "life" in them.

I believe that God has granted a good and abundant life here on earth that we can enjoy by walking in the Spirit, and obeying his instructions as how he wants us to live our lives as we sojourn here on earth.

Some of the "life" scriptures are referencing a life here on earth, which demands some works that we must do, and some of the "life" scriptures are referencing eternal life.

My clue, is when the scripture says that there is something that we have to do to have the life mentioned, it will be referencing the good and abundant life here on earth.

Salvation, according to Greek interpretation means= "a deliverance" After we have been regenerated, and are disobedient to God, he chastens us, and we lose our fellowship with him (temporarily) because God will not fellowship with sin. When our new heart of flesh is pricked, and we repent, along with God's forgiveness, we are delivered (saved) from the effects of that sin, and are back in good fellowship with God.

There are two life's to consider, and there are also two salvations (deliverances) to consider.

we can agree on many things, question and explore others, as long as we seek to edify others in truth it comes out just fine👌🤔👌

 

[1ofthem]

I hope that you would agree that all of the scriptures must harmonize with each other before anyone can understand the truths that are contained in the scriptures. That being said, What is your explanation of Dan 4:35?

Can the natural man, as described in 1 Cor 2:14, hear and understand the things of the Spirit, as he thinks them to be foolishness, because he cannot discern them? Does not a person have to hear and understand spiritual things before he can believe spiritual things?

Can only God's sheep hear his voice John 10:27.? Is the reason that they can hear a spiritual God, is because they have been quickened from a non-spiritual life to a new spiritual life , and now they can discern spiritual things, Eph 2.?

I do agree that scripture harmonizes. We have to take in the whole Word of God to understand it. The scripture shows that God has given men a choice. He made a new Covenant and sent his only begotten Son so that whosoever will believe in him and call upon him will be saved. Now this is simple and cannot be embellished on or thrown out, in doing so the message of the Gospel would be distorted.

I've not got a lot of free time right now and my computer is acting up, but I will try to hit on a few points. In Dan 4:35 there is nothing contrary to what I believe and am saying. I don't believe in anyway that anyone can overpower God.

No one is saying anything about over powering God or staying his hand. He made the plan for salvation. He is the one that gave the choice. He draws all men and if someone rejects then they have no excuse. This is his Word and he has made it clear in scripture.

Scripture after scripture after scripture testifies to this. You can't change the meanings of words to embellish some theology.

Without the drawing and conviction of the Holy Spirit no one can be saved. However, God draws all men so they have a choice to accept or not. Once again scripture is plain on this any who accept, believe in, and call upon the Lord Jesus Christ then they shall be saved.

This is so simple that child could understand. Why conflate it with man made concepts and theology?

 

[1ofthem]

But He says so much more than just that. You can't just take this one thought as if it's the only thing He says about the matter. It's not.

Yeah and it all harmonizes with what I posted.

 

[Duskey]

They just simply are guilty of attacking the messenger, when they don't like the message. Just as the religionist of Christ' day attacked Him for His message. Remember what our Lord said:

(John 15:18) If the world hateth you, ye know that it hath hated me before it hated you.

Total farce coming from the person who refuses to “share” the message with someone who has asked on multiple occasions.

Don’t break your arms patting yourself on the back; you’re going to need strength carrying that millstone around your neck for shutting out the Kingdom of God against others.

 

[EleventhHour]

They really don't think that we, who believe that Salvation is all of God, are elite. They just simply are guilty of attacking the messenger, when they don't like the message. Just as the religionist of Christ' day attacked Him for His message. Remember what our Lord said:

(John 15:18) If the world hateth you, ye know that it hath hated me before it hated you.

I wonder how many of these, that defend the doctrine of "FREE WILL" are or have been hated by their families, fiends and others. I know I have, even to the extent that family, the ones who are religious, will have nothing to do with me because of what I have proclaimed to them in a witness. The fact that I am hated and they are loved by this world system, gives me great hope that I am secure in my Lord.

Those that oppose the doctrine, we call, "FREE GRACE", oppose it because:

(Luke 19:14) But his citizens hated him, and sent an ambassador after him, saying, We will not that this man reign over us.

But let us who do hold to these truths, remember also: For if not for the grace of God, so go I. If we then, boast, let our boasting be in Jesus Christ. Let us walk in humility, even though it is sometimes difficult BUT let us not shrink from holy indignation.

Just a thought.....

Your doctrine is not free grace.

It is the doctine of grace DENIAL.

At least be honest.

 

[Duskey]

I learned my lesson the hard way, of not having the revelation of the Holy Spirit, by not denying my own entelect for 12 years of my life.

You and I, probably, have a different view on some of the scriptures mention the word "life" in them.

I believe that God has granted a good and abundant life here on earth that we can enjoy by walking in the Spirit, and obeying his instructions as how he wants us to live our lives as we sojourn here on earth.

Some of the "life" scriptures are referencing a life here on earth, which demands some works that we must do, and some of the "life" scriptures are referencing eternal life.

My clue, is when the scripture says that there is something that we have to do to have the life mentioned, it will be referencing the good and abundant life here on earth.

Salvation, according to Greek interpretation means= "a deliverance" After we have been regenerated, and are disobedient to God, he chastens us, and we lose our fellowship with him (temporarily) because God will not fellowship with sin. When our new heart of flesh is pricked, and we repent, along with God's forgiveness, we are delivered (saved) from the effects of that sin, and are back in good fellowship with God.

There are two life's to consider, and there are also two salvations (deliverances) to consider.

Do you weep for those created for destruction? If not you haven’t learned much. Unless of course you fervently ask God to allow someone to trade places with you. That would be 100% Christlike on your part.

 

[1ofthem]

Awesome testimony brother. Dead on. He gets ALL glory.

My testimony contradicts the whole "we make the choice" narrative, as in God cannot save us if we don't want to let Him God that is restricted by mans will, nonsense. I did make the "choice", I went right up front when called, repeated the prayer, heck was even baptized a little later for good measure and was declared saved, when I wasn't. I kept hearing "we will always be sinners", "look at Paul, he says he does the things he shouldn't, and doesn't do the things he should", all these things that work to deceive the false convert. Never preached anything about a change, nothing about an actual spiritual resurrection in us, nothing about being made whole, nope, always a justification to stay in sin without guilt. Please before anyone gets mad at me yet, I'm not saying these things aren't true, of course. This is Gods word and to the reborn able to see these spiritual truths clearly they are all sound of course. But to the unbeliever, specifically the false convert in this case, these things preached unbalanced can result in false converts that think they are saved.

In my case this was really highlighted after a motorcycle wreak that happen while thinking I was saved. Losing the use of my dominate arm forever sent me on a downward spiral I had no control over. All I wanted was to die for two years, but even though I had an easy way out due to the fact I have no feeling in my right arm at all, I was stuck here because I had two sons and I knew that no body that took my place here, if anyone even did, would love them like I did. Their father. So I was stuck. Like I said for two years I fought this every day, wanting to die, wanting to die, no hope, no way out, couldn't control my thoughts about it at all, until I had enough.

One day at home all alone I finally see "my way" for the futile demonstration it was. I saw my whole life for the meaningless hopeless garbage it truly was and I broke. I hit my knees blubbering, I was giving up. If I had ever believed in God, I didn't then, I did not call God, I did not call Jesus, I did not call for anyone or anything, I cried out "I can't do this anymore I can't do this anymore, I can't do this anymore! World you win, I lose,I QUIT!!!!

See I made no decision at all for God in this moment. So when I did "make my decision", when I chose God in my head I was not saved. From what I read on here there are many that would argue at that point I was saved, even when I say I wasn't. I can assure you I wasn't, God had His hand on me then, and learning that was for a purpose, but I was NOT saved at all. After the second episode when I did not make any decision other than "I QUIT THE WORLD", I woke up the next day a whole new man, and God is the one that told me this time. It wasn't until lunch at work the next day that it hit me, and hit me hard. After two years of suicidal thoughts every 5 minutes of every day at lunchtime Sept. 29th 2013, at 33 years of age, I realized "I HAVEN'T THOUGHT ABOUT KILLING MYSELF ALL DAY!!!!!!!!!!". It was right in this moment I knew that whatever happen, it was God, and I knew Jesus was His Son.

I could go on and on, but with this much my point is made. When I thought I made the decision I was not saved, and when I had no idea that God was GRANTING me repentance, I woke up new the next day, and He is the one that declared me saved. Holla-Boo-Ya!!! Praise our mighty King. He saves us, our choice doesn't "allow" Him to do His will.

Don't limit the Lord....Send out his call to all just like he said to do...Many are called but few are chosen. There are false converts on all sides...The Lord said he will judge between the sheep and the goats. He also said let the chaff grow with the wheat and he will do the separating.

Give the Gospel message, that all who call upon the Lord and believe in him shall be saved is what we are told to do. God is the judge of the hearts of men. All we are required to do is spread his word and be able to give a reason for the hope that is within us. Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior but not just ours, but to everyone who will believe upon him.

1 John 2
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

We better be careful not to add to or embellish the meaning of God's word and muddy the way for others.

 

[Duskey]

One thing that I disagree with Calvin, from what I have been told about him, is that I believe that God has given mankind the freedom to choose out his changes as he sojourns here on earth, but man's eternal destination is determined by the sovereign grace of God, without any assistance from man.

So if a man chooses on his own accord to believe in Christ and serve Him without ceasing that man is still “destined” for destruction?

 

[EleventhHour]

Isn't that the truth.


If you read the bible, from front to back, you will see all through it that there are those who believe, and those who don't. Those who are Gods People and those who are not.

Is God Sovereign in this matter? After thousands of years and the many generations of people in the bible can God not understand the nature of people who believe vs. those who don't?

And STILL continue to make both. Does the Potter have power over the clay?


I don't understand how a person can read the bible and come to the conclusion that all people are good and they can all be saved.

Romans 9:17-18
17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.




Its not an issue of wanting or not wanting. It is just plain bible Truth. It is easy for a saved Christian who has read the bible a few times to understand the truth of Calvinism. Those who still wish for their "free will" to be god so they don't have to see the Truth of scripture are willfully blind and follow their blind guides. There are plenty of them out there.

Just the fact that there are saved people testifies to the Mercy and Love of God.

Still waiting on if "all" men sin?

 

[Jimbone]

Yeah and it all harmonizes with what I posted.

I do agree that scripture harmonizes. We have to take in the whole Word of God to understand it. The scripture shows that God has given men a choice. He made a new Covenant and sent his only begotten Son so that whosoever will believe in him and call upon him will be saved. Now this is simple and cannot be embellished on or thrown out, in doing so the message of the Gospel would be distorted.

I've not got a lot of free time right now and my computer is acting up, but I will try to hit on a few points. In Dan 4:35 there is nothing contrary to what I believe and am saying. I don't believe in anyway that anyone can overpower God.

No one is saying anything about over powering God or staying his hand. He made the plan for salvation. He is the one that gave the choice. He draws all men and if someone rejects then they have no excuse. This is his Word and he has made it clear in scripture.

Scripture after scripture after scripture testifies to this. You can't change the meanings of words to embellish some theology.

Without the drawing and conviction of the Holy Spirit no one can be saved. However, God draws all men so they have a choice to accept or not. Once again scripture is plain on this any who accept, believe in, and call upon the Lord Jesus Christ then they shall be saved.

This is so simple that child could understand. Why conflate it with man made concepts and theology?

With all due respect I disagree with the emphasis you put on the power of mans choice to determine what and who God saves. In the way you are presenting it, in my head, is that it is the Fathers will ALL men be saved, and Jesus died to save ALL men. Full stop right here, if it's the Fathers will that all be saved (and it is, the bible clearly says that, so please don't think I'm disagreeing here) AND you say Jesus DID died for every bodies sin, and the only thing keeping us from this salvation is our choice, then please explain to me how it's not our choice that saves us now? Never mind the glaring fact that this set up it broken from the jump, even if He created it all, this system strips God of His power and puts it all on us. This doesn't harmonize at all with how I read and understand a TON of scripture.

Also I want to say you have been completely respectful and clear to me in this discussion and I want to say thanks. I truly hope I'm not being rude or irrational towards you in any way. I honestly do not think we are far off of each other, I think we can be saved and hold either one of these views. To me this is just a conversation between brothers and I am not here to "set you strait" or "correct your error" or anything like that. I'm honestly just trying to see where we can see we are really just looking at the same thing from different angles and not even truly in disagreement, certainly no reason to divide (meant more the general discussion, not "me and you").

 

[Jimbone]

Don't limit the Lord....Send out his call to all just like he said to do...Many are called but few are chosen. There are false converts on all sides...The Lord said he will judge between the sheep and the goats. He also said let the chaff grow with the wheat and he will do the separating.

Give the Gospel message, that all who call upon the Lord and believe in him shall be saved is what we are told to do. God is the judge of the hearts of men. All we are required to do is spread his word and be able to give a reason for the hope that is within us. Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior but not just ours, but to everyone who will believe upon him.

1 John 2
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

We better be careful not to add to or embellish the meaning of God's word and muddy the way for others.

I honestly agree with this whole comment, however I am very curious as to how you say I was limiting God, you just throw that out there and follow it with nothing at all that would concentric anything I said. So please be very specific. How was I "limiting God power", with what I said you told me "don't", so "don't" what exactly?

I can't tell you how you in fact limit Gods power. You say God wants all saved, and Jesus died for everyone's sin, yet Gods will isn't enough, His power is limited by your choice. See YOU limit Gods power. I bow to it.

 

[EleventhHour]

Real Christians....not Xians...do not peddle a god that makes man a for heaven and man b thru z for hell......! LET that soak in!

To the mind of the Calvinist this brings their god glory.

Another catch phrase...'he gets all the glory"

How distorted to think this horrific dogma is glorifying to God

 

[Duskey]

To the mind of the Calvinist

😆😆😆

 

[Jimbone]

I do agree that scripture harmonizes. We have to take in the whole Word of God to understand it. The scripture shows that God has given men a choice. He made a new Covenant and sent his only begotten Son so that whosoever will believe in him and call upon him will be saved. Now this is simple and cannot be embellished on or thrown out, in doing so the message of the Gospel would be distorted.

I've not got a lot of free time right now and my computer is acting up, but I will try to hit on a few points. In Dan 4:35 there is nothing contrary to what I believe and am saying. I don't believe in anyway that anyone can overpower God.

No one is saying anything about over powering God or staying his hand. He made the plan for salvation. He is the one that gave the choice. He draws all men and if someone rejects then they have no excuse. This is his Word and he has made it clear in scripture.

Scripture after scripture after scripture testifies to this. You can't change the meanings of words to embellish some theology.

Without the drawing and conviction of the Holy Spirit no one can be saved. However, God draws all men so they have a choice to accept or not. Once again scripture is plain on this any who accept, believe in, and call upon the Lord Jesus Christ then they shall be saved.

This is so simple that child could understand. Why conflate it with man made concepts and theology?

Hey man sometimes this conversation gets so binary we talk past each other, but I do believe that to us, here in time and space we do make a choice. I also want you to know that I am not denying that it says this in scripture. I do not think we are some kind of brain dead robot toys that a mean God plays with. I know we have a will, and God tells us often to "choose", so I just want to make sure you know I'm not denying these things. The things I do thing think we see a little different is the power of that choice and who gets the glory for it.

Even though it didn't work this way with me, as far as me "choosing" God and being truly saved, I know it does work this way for many, and I do not believe there is anything wrong with this at all, the opposite, I praise God for it. So I could sum it up by saying "Yes I believe that we are saved after we chose to turn from our sin and to Him", but who gets the glory? I say He does. That' all.

 

[1ofthem]

I honestly agree with this whole comment, however I am very curious as to how you say I was limiting God, you just throw that out there and follow it with nothing at all that would concentric anything I said. So please be very specific. How was I "limiting God power", with what I said you told me "don't", so "don't" what exactly?

I can't tell you how you in fact limit Gods power. You say God wants all saved, and Jesus died for everyone's sin, yet Gods will isn't enough, His power is limited by your choice. See YOU limit Gods power. I bow to it.

I seriously have prayed and prayed over this and I am trying to be respectful to all. Yet, I can tell you with all honesty that from reading the scripture it is plain to me that God is no respecter of Person, He would have all men saved and He so loved the world that he sent his only begotten Son so that whosoever will believe in him shall be saved and that whosoever will call upon him shall be saved. It all harmonizes with other scriptures.

My choice or anyone else's choice doesn't limit God's power. This is what I can't seem to express enough here. God made the way for salvation for all, but not all will accept. This is not limiting God because he has offered the gift of salvation to all and wants all to be saved. Those who reject him, will be condemned and will have no excuse.