The Rapture Thief Robs Jesuit Futurism Of The 7 Years Of Tribulation

[Truth7t7]

No wonder it is impossible to get on the same page

Sad to see this forum lumps everything under the title of (Christian News)

There are all sorts of false beliefs floating around, Full Preterism, 7th Day, JWs, Mormons, Etc?

You have to spend weeks pulling the wool off the wolves in their false teachings, your a prime example in this instance, you didn't have a clue on the posters belief system

Many of these cults find their roots in occultic Freemasonry, with Ellen G White buried under an Egyptian Obelisk, JWs Charles Taze Russel Buried under the all seeing eye Egyptian pyramid, Joseph Smith was a Mason, and their Mormon Temple rituals are from freemasonry

 

[Phoneman-777]

It's prophetic, symbolic language my good fellow. You have to see how this language is used in the OT to properly apply it in the NT. Remember, it's how they talked and understood that counts, not how we talk. Just as people from 2,000 plus years ago would find it hard to understand all of our use of slang and colloquialism, you are finding it hard to understand them. Read these passages, learn them, understand them. Mat 24 is the same. Israel fell again. It's over and there is no prediction of a future return to earth for Christ.

Judah in the sixth century B.C. (Jeremiah 4:23-26)
Egypt in the sixth century B.C. (Ezekiel 32:7-9)
Babylon in the sixth century B.C. (Isaiah 13:9-13)
Edom in the sixth century B.C. (Isaiah 34:4-5)

My friend, I would not seek to debate you would I not be concerned for your well being OT pronouncements of judgment against Israel are a microcosm of the end time destruction of the world, because the CRUX of the issue has never been the wicked - everyone knows they're lost - it has always been with those who profess to believe but perhaps only talk the talk but do not walk the walk, as in the case of much of Israel's history. Therefore, many times when judgment was pronounced against Israel, entwined with that was a "dual prophecy" concerning the entire world. "What is literal and local in the OT is spiritual and worldwide in the NT."

When Jeremiah 25 speaks of destruction going forth from "nation to nation" and "coasts" of the Earth, that cannot refer to just "Israel" because Israel only has ONE coast, right or wrong? No, this refers to a plurality of nations and coasts beyond just the scope of Israel. Therefore, "And the slain of the Lord shall be in that day from one end of the Earth even to the other end of the Earth.." means worldwide destruction of the wicked, which no where fits into your Jesuit Preterism, but agrees completely with Protestant Historicism.

Where are you getting this notion of a spectacular return?

1 Thessalonians 4 is one such passage. It's been referred to as the loudest verse in all of Scripture.
Think about it:

• God merely spoke at Mount Sinai and the whole mountain shook and rumbled and millions of Israelites were terrified - what do you think will happen when He descends with a cacophonous, bedrock crumbling, deafening SHOUT???
• When the glory of the Lord rested on Moses' face, the people were terrified and begged him to veil it...do you think anyone is going to miss "glorious appearing" which will outshine the sun and will destroy the wicked "with the brightness of His coming"?

The opposite is true. Why do you think the disciples asked for the signs of when His presence would be back? It's precisely because it wouldn't be obvious. Jesus described His return as a Flash of Lightening, meaning it would be super fast.

Speed is not the issue, the effect is the issue. Yes, lightning is fast but does anyone miss the flash that lights up a night sky like noonday, or the thunderous boom that accompanies it? Of course not.

Besides Josephus does record some strange heavenly spiritual events.

Josephus wrote NOTHING of substance about the Second Coming of Jesus - where are the other historic accounts of what is the greatest event in the history of the universe? Did the entire world miss it? Jesus did not come in the first century, will still not have returned by the time the 6th plague falls, and is not the God of Jesuit Preterism, which was unknown to the world until the 16th century when the Reformation condemned the Papacy as Antichrist and Jesuit Preterism and Jesuit Futurism told Protestants to "look to the past, to the future, ANYWHERE but us".

 

[Phoneman-777]

Its not like he left even for a twinkling of the eye.

Its no secret, the same spirit of faith as it is written that lived in the Son of man, Jesus the prophet, apostle, by which he spoke and believed also dwells in our earthen bodies working with us today. Yet he knew no sin .

2 Corinthians 4:13 We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;

The mutual faith of Christ's labor of love that works in all who believe.

When he as the Son of man left he commanded us not to known him after the temporal things seen any longer.

2 Corinthians 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

The one time propmised demonstration of him and the father is over. When he disappeared out of sight the unseen father could retain all the glory. the window of opportunity 33 years had closed . The full power returned to the glory of the unseen father.

Christ in us the very presence of God. He will not come again and appear in the flesh .

The antichrists that seek after the flesh have ben revealed as the man of sin . They that seek after wonders are looking for a second demonstration . Which would be blasphemy against the unseen power .


Matthew 12:31-32 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost (not seen) shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, (seen) it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Titus 2:12-12 KJV would beg to differ with you.

 

[Phoneman-777]

Sad to see this forum lumps everything under the title of (Christian News)

There are all sorts of false beliefs floating around, Full Preterism, 7th Day, JWs, Mormons, Etc?

You have to spend weeks pulling the wool off the wolves in their false teachings, your a prime example in this instance, you didn't have a clue on the posters belief system

Many of these cults find their roots in occultic Freemasonry, with Ellen G White buried under an Egyptian Obelisk, JWs Charles Taze Russel Buried under the all seeing eye Egyptian pyramid, Joseph Smith was a Mason, and their Mormon Temple rituals are from freemasonry

Oh, so "7th day" is a covering of wool? Do you believe the Ten Commandments? Are Christians at liberty to worship Satan, or steal, or lie, or run around with loose women? Oh, then the "7th Day" is still binding on the church as the one day of rest and fellowship, while "six days you shall work" including Sunday, right? The only "wool" that's being pulled over the eyes of the people is the ecumenical wool of Sunday worship that traces its roots to Rome, just like Jesuit Preterism and Jesuit Futurism.

 

[Phoneman-777]

No wonder it is impossible to get on the same page

Yes, it's impossible for me to be on the same page as those who don't understand the Bible, church history, or that their eschatological ideas are rooted in the Jesuit Order.

 

[Phoneman-777]

You have been shown your claim is 100% false, and you pretend as if I never posted it, as you run off on another tangent without direct response, Big Smiles!

The Heavens and Earth are (Dissolved) by the Lord's fire at his return

2 Peter 3:10-11KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

Your suggesting that Jeremiah 4:27 (Yet Will I Not Make A Full End) as referring to the earth and the second coming?

Jeremiah was prophesying of the coming Judgement to Jerusalem from invading armies, and how the Lord wasn't going to make a full end of (Jerusalem)

Keep searching, you ain't gonna find this earth surviving the Lord (Dissolving) it by his fire seen in 2 Peter 3:10-11 above

(I Will Not Make A Full End With You) Jerusalem!

Jeremiah 5:14-18
14 Wherefore thus saith the Lord God of hosts, Because ye speak this word, behold, I make my words in thy mouth fire, and this people wood, and it shall devour them.
15 Lo, I will bring a nation upon you from far, O house of Israel, saith the Lord: it is a mighty nation, it is an ancient nation, a nation whose language thou knowest not, neither understandest what they say.
16 Their quiver is as an open sepulchre, they are all mighty men.
17 And they shall eat up thine harvest, and thy bread, which thy sons and thy daughters should eat: they shall eat up thy flocks and thine herds: they shall eat up thy vines and thy fig trees: they shall impoverish thy fenced cities, wherein thou trustedst, with the sword.
18 Nevertheless in those days, saith the Lord, I will not make a full end with you.

Again, in case you missed it, you have been shown that at the Second Coming of Jesus, a "full end" is not yet made. Only after the wicked are destroyed and "affliction shall not rise up the second time" will the end of all things be, according to Nahum 1:3-9 KJV

 

[Truth7t7]

Oh, so "7th day" is a covering of wool? Do you believe the Ten Commandments? Are Christians at liberty to worship Satan, or steal, or lie, or run around with loose women? Oh, then the "7th Day" is still binding on the church as the one day of rest and fellowship, while "six days you shall work" including Sunday, right? The only "wool" that's being pulled over the eyes of the people is the ecumenical wool of Sunday worship that traces its roots to Rome, just like Jesuit Preterism and Jesuit Futurism.

I follow the 7th day sabbath

Ellen G White is a false prophetess buried under the occultic Freemasons Egyptian obelisk, Adventist denial of a literal hell, soul sleep, Investigative judgement, just to mention a few

I don't follow Sunday worship, Preterism, or dispensationalism

Jesus Christ Is My Lord, I Follow His Word, Not Some Cultic Leader.

 

[PlainWord]

(Josephus) AKA Yosef ben Matityahu was an unsaved Jewish Adulterer, married like 5 times

He was a traitor to the Jewish people, leaving battle and joining the Romans camp, being exalted with wine, women, and mansions for his works of propaganda in promoting Rome and the Emperor's.

Josephus would make Hitler's Joseph Goebbels blush

As we covered before none of this disqualifies everything he recorded. Do you think Jerusalem did not fall in 70 AD because of Josephus? Dumb. Okay, maybe you will trust Peter?

2 Peter 2: But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. 2 And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed. 3 By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does not slumber.

Or perhaps Peter was concerned about the 21st century??

My friend, I would not seek to debate you would I not be concerned for your well being OT pronouncements of judgment against Israel are a microcosm of the end time destruction of the world, because the CRUX of the issue has never been the wicked - everyone knows they're lost - it has always been with those who profess to believe but perhaps only talk the talk but do not walk the walk, as in the case of much of Israel's history. Therefore, many times when judgment was pronounced against Israel, entwined with that was a "dual prophecy" concerning the entire world. "What is literal and local in the OT is spiritual and worldwide in the NT."

When Jeremiah 25 speaks of destruction going forth from "nation to nation" and "coasts" of the Earth, that cannot refer to just "Israel" because Israel only has ONE coast, right or wrong? No, this refers to a plurality of nations and coasts beyond just the scope of Israel. Therefore, "And the slain of the Lord shall be in that day from one end of the Earth even to the other end of the Earth.." means worldwide destruction of the wicked, which no where fits into your Jesuit Preterism, but agrees completely with Protestant Historicism.
1 Thessalonians 4 is one such passage. It's been referred to as the loudest verse in all of Scripture.
Think about it:

• God merely spoke at Mount Sinai and the whole mountain shook and rumbled and millions of Israelites were terrified - what do you think will happen when He descends with a cacophonous, bedrock crumbling, deafening SHOUT???
• When the glory of the Lord rested on Moses' face, the people were terrified and begged him to veil it...do you think anyone is going to miss "glorious appearing" which will outshine the sun and will destroy the wicked "with the brightness of His coming"?

Speed is not the issue, the effect is the issue. Yes, lightning is fast but does anyone miss the flash that lights up a night sky like noonday, or the thunderous boom that accompanies it? Of course not.
Josephus wrote NOTHING of substance about the Second Coming of Jesus - where are the other historic accounts of what is the greatest event in the history of the universe? Did the entire world miss it? Jesus did not come in the first century, will still not have returned by the time the 6th plague falls, and is not the God of Jesuit Preterism, which was unknown to the world until the 16th century when the Reformation condemned the Papacy as Antichrist and Jesuit Preterism and Jesuit Futurism told Protestants to "look to the past, to the future, ANYWHERE but us".

Did you read all of Jer 25? It is totally about the Babylonian conquest of Israel.

8 “Therefore thus says the Lord of hosts: ‘Because you have not heard My words, 9 behold, I will send and take all the families of the north,’ says the Lord, ‘and Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon, My servant, and will bring them against this land, against its inhabitants, and against these nations all around, and will utterly destroy them..."

It doesn't say coast to coast in the NKJV. It says from one end of the earth to the other. Earth = Israel. Even if it were coast to coast, Israel has the Med to the west and the Sea of Galilee and Dead Sea to the east.

 

[Phoneman-777]

I follow the 7th day sabbath

Ellen G White is a false prophetess buried under the occultic Freemasons Egyptian obelisk, Adventist denial of a literal hell, soul sleep, Investigative judgement, just to mention a few

I don't follow Sunday worship, Preterism, or dispensationalism

Jesus Christ Is My Lord, I Follow His Word, Not Some Cultic Leader.

Good, you acknowledge the correct day of worship. I'll bet you didn't know EGW wrote that Christians cannot join Freemasons or other secret societies and still be called Christians. There is no literal hell burning now, we all sleep until the resurrection just as the Bible says, the Investigative Judgment is going on now and started in 1844..what's your point?

 

[Phoneman-777]

As we covered before none of this disqualifies everything he recorded. Do you think Jerusalem did not fall in 70 AD because of Josephus? Dumb. Okay, maybe you will trust Peter?

2 Peter 2: But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. 2 And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed. 3 By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does not slumber.

Or perhaps Peter was concerned about the 21st century??



Did you read all of Jer 25? It is totally about the Babylonian conquest of Israel.

8 “Therefore thus says the Lord of hosts: ‘Because you have not heard My words, 9 behold, I will send and take all the families of the north,’ says the Lord, ‘and Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon, My servant, and will bring them against this land, against its inhabitants, and against these nations all around, and will utterly destroy them..."

It doesn't say coast to coast in the NKJV. It says from one end of the earth to the other. Earth = Israel. Even if it were coast to coast, Israel has the Med to the west and the Sea of Galilee and Dead Sea to the east.

Brother, it says "nations" and "coasts" - it's talking about a global event, not something obscure.

 

[Truth7t7]

Good, you acknowledge the correct day of worship. I'll bet you didn't know EGW wrote that Christians cannot join Freemasons or other secret societies and still be called Christians. There is no literal hell burning now, we all sleep until the resurrection just as the Bible says, the Investigative Judgment is going on now and started in 1844..what's your point?

Ellen G. White and James are buried under the greatest symbol of occultic Freemasonry (The Obelisk)

Jehovah's Witnesses Cultic Leader Buried Under The Egyptian Pyramid, A Symbol Of Occultic Freemasonry And The Occultic Egyptian Mysteries

Pastor Russell.

 

[GaryA]

Earth = Israel

Sorry, brother(s) - but, I do not believe that this is ever true in the context of any scripture. I believe that this conclusion can only be the result of - consciously or unconsciously - wrapping scripture around some idea desperately desired to be believed.

 

[garee]

Titus 2:12-12 KJV would beg to differ with you.

Differ in what?

Titus 2;12 speaks of the milk of the word. It teaches us God is gracious .Same spirit of faith that dwelt in the Son of man Jesus. . dwells in his brother and sisters, us. Yet he knew no sin .

 

[Absolutely]

Yes, it's impossible for me to be on the same page as those who don't understand the Bible, church history, or that their eschatological ideas are rooted in the Jesuit Order.

Pot <> Kettle

Big time.

 

[Absolutely]

Oh, so "7th day" is a covering of wool? Do you believe the Ten Commandments? Are Christians at liberty to worship Satan, or steal, or lie, or run around with loose women? Oh, then the "7th Day" is still binding on the church as the one day of rest and fellowship, while "six days you shall work" including Sunday, right? The only "wool" that's being pulled over the eyes of the people is the ecumenical wool of Sunday worship that traces its roots to Rome, just like Jesuit Preterism and Jesuit Futurism.

Sda is your starting place.

That is why you can not recincile the bride/groom dynamics.

And why you reframe rev 14.

See,once new verses are added to the wrong starting place.....the bizare reframing MUST follow.

You have too great an investment in a skewed doctrine to make the appropriate changes.

I never had that hamstrng problem.

From day one I tested all the models/positions.

What I now know is that there is built in safety in the word/bible.

Built in safety.

Part of that safety is cohesion/harmony.

Another part is the "impossibility" dynamic.

All false teaching/ positions/ doctrine/ carry alongside an "impossibility"

A single coming combined with the main rapture is such an impossibility.

So postrib is removed by the obvious.

And so it is ,we procede.

I am thankful God led me to be independent of men.

You ......not so much.

You got a tough job in reframing my verses.

A real tough job.

 

[Absolutely]

2 Peter 3:10 KJV says:

"But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up."​

Notice that "in the which" part? Peter is saying "in the same day the Lord comes as a thief, the heavens (atmosphere) disintegrate, the Periodic Table flips over, and the Earth and the things therein burn to a crisp. Does it sound like there's gonna be 7 more years of anything going on down here after all that? But, just when I thought I'd heard it all, a Jesuit Futurist stepped up and raised the bar to a whole new level of crazy:

"Oh, Peter's talking about the second time the Lord comes as a thief, at the end of the 7 years tribulation". ​

Now please...if Jesus was to sneak into town and sneak out with the saints, would there be anyone left behind on planet Earth in the dark about His return 7 years later? Think about it: Every calendar would be marked when all the Christians disappeared. CNN would have a "XXXX days left until the Lord returns" graphic running 24/7. Don King would activate the greatest event promotion of all time. TicketMaster and StubHub would be selling out as fast as they could print tickets. Times Square would be ready to drop the "Jesus Ball" at the final countdown...but that is the extent to which Jesuit Futurists are willing to go in order to cling to Jesuit Futurism. It's just not Biblical.

Ok,here is how it is...or supposed to be in investigation.

Test fit the possible or available evidence.

Test it to see if it can play out.

Test fit everything and try to ignore prejudice.

That goes a million miles in forming doctrine.

Pride and investment will incubate false doctrine.

But ask yourselves why you need skewed history and name calling put downs as part of YOUR ACTUAL DOCTRINE?????

When I see that I automatically know their pride is guiding them.
Their deal is weak so they go extra biblical.

Ironically history betrays them.....as does their other building blocks.

 

[garee]

Good, you acknowledge the correct day of worship. I'll bet you didn't know EGW wrote that Christians cannot join Freemasons or other secret societies and still be called Christians. There is no literal hell burning now, we all sleep until the resurrection just as the Bible says, the Investigative Judgment is going on now and started in 1844..what's your point?

The ressurection is working today .To be absent from the body is to be present in heaven .Dead asleep.

Dead bodies like that of the Catholic Pope Formosa trial will not be dug up and judged . Our bodies of death have already been judged and will return to the spiritless dust.

Hell, dying is the sufferings we do go through on a daily bases .Christian have some relief yoked with Christ. He makes the sufferings of hell lighter.

What will be tossed into the final judgment fire .Is the letter of the law "death" It provide the sufferings of hell. . the wage of sin the first death. Dead bodies are not redeemable nether can judgment be pronounced on them. Double jeopardy.

In that way death and the sufferings of dying (hell) .

The letter of the law death will not rise up and condemn though sufferings a whole corrupted creation ever again .

Revelation 20:14 And death and hell (the sufferings) were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

The second. The law of death itself. It will not be remembered or ever come to mind forever and ever. (no bones)

 

[PlainWord]

Brother, it says "nations" and "coasts" - it's talking about a global event, not something obscure.

You don't seem to realize that Babylon in those ancient days was the greatest empire on earth at the time. It conquered far more than just Israel. It conquered many nations and city states just as the text says. It's empire spread from coast to coast as seen below.

Do you even understand the purpose of the OT prophets? It wasn't to warn people of the 21st century AD about anything. It was to warn their nation about the things to come in an effort to get them to turn from their ways. Jeremiah was called to prophetic ministry c. 626 BC by YHWH to give prophecy of Jerusalem's coming destruction by invaders from the north. This was because Israel had forsaken God by worshiping the idols of Baal and for burning their children as offerings to Moloch. The nation had deviated so far from God's laws that they had broken the covenant, causing God to withdraw his blessings. Jeremiah was guided by God to proclaim that the nation of Judah would suffer famine, foreign conquest, plunder, and captivity in a land of strangers.

If all these things Jeremiah wrote 2600 years ago were intended for us, then where does he warn his people? Why were his people so angry at him and wanted to kill him if he wasn't even discussing them? Study a little history so you can get some proper context.

 

[PlainWord]

Sorry, brother(s) - but, I do not believe that this is ever true in the context of any scripture. I believe that this conclusion can only be the result of - consciously or unconsciously - wrapping scripture around some idea desperately desired to be believed.

Well then you believe incorrectly. EARTH most frequently means the specific land/country being discussed. It almost NEVER means the entire planet. You really should drill down on this Gary if you want to figure this all out and do so with an open mind. It was very hard for me to do as we all have our biases and long held beliefs which are the hardest to let go. I don't know if this will work for you or not, but the way I did it was to assume the preterist model was correct then I went back and re-read the entire NT and kept asking myself if what I was reading was debunking, or supporting, the preterist model. What I found was every thing fit. But one needs to understand that many OT symbols are in play especially in prophet passages. Key word searches can help you with this.

The prophecies concerning the fall of Edom, Egypt, Israel and Babylon in Isaiah, Jeremiah and Ezekiel, like the predictions in Revelation and 2 Peter 3, are written in an apocalyptic style. Apocalyptic literature is basically poetry. And like poetry, apocalyptic literature is not a rigidly literal depiction of events like one might expect to find in a newspaper. Therefore, one should not expect the sky and earth to physically pass away after the Jewish War just as the stars in the sky were not physically “dissolved and the heavens rolled up” at the fall of Egypt, Israel and Babylon in the sixth century B.C. Because heaven and earth were not physically annihilated at the conquest of Judah, Egypt, Edom and Babylon in the sixth century B.C., it stands to reason that the destruction of heaven and earth at the end of the age predicted in 2 Peter 3 and Revelation 6:12-14 is also not expected to signify the complete dissolution of all of creation.

We all want to know what the future holds but the Bible doesn't specifically tell us about our future, except for our afterlife, which is the most important. However, since time is like a bowl of noodles, we can look at past major events to gain some insight into possible future events. I digress. I really hope you will challenge yourself to consider different possibilities other than your current prophetic model as it has more holes than Titanic. I suspect you know some of the holes in your model and are seeking those out.

 

[Truth7t7]

Yes, it's impossible for me to be on the same page as those who don't understand the Bible, church history, or that their eschatological ideas are rooted in the Jesuit Order.

Your belief is rooted in false prophetess Ellen G White, and her 2,000 claimed visions, as she lays under the Occultic Obelisk of Freemasonry

Think about that, you bet it's pot, kettle, black