Calvinist Kitchen...stirring the pot

[Iconoclast]

EleventhHour said:
[I think you making an illogical argument>>> false equivocation.]

I do not get into carnal philosophy,, debate fallacies and such things as they divert from scripture'

[Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men (you change to the elect men) unto justification of life. (Romans 5:18)]

Universalism is not taught in scripture. Election is. Now I did not need to mention election here, because it is obvious who Paul is speaking about in the whole Chapter.

Are all men ever born in Adam, going to experience justification to life.??? Of course not. the Chapter is explaining what are the results for those who ;
5 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

It is not speaking of "ALL'" men ever born...

[That is a logical fallacy.]
No. it is scripture flat out, plain and simple.

{Paul goes on to clarify that while sin did come upon all men, salvation is a gift it must be received, whereas he does not state that about the offence and Adam.]

Where do you think Paul says this.?
looks like you want it to say this, but it does not!

...I can show my view all through this chapter and all through this book.

 

[Duskey]

Those are great verses found in different sections of the confession. A Confession of faith is like a toolbox, each section deals with a focused topic. In the first section it is just establishing that Scripture is the sole rule of faith and practice, so it starts of with 2 tim 3:15-17....it is not necessarily exhaustive, but meant to provoke further thought and study.

They spent months working on the wording of each section and the verses are designed to demonstrate it.

“Sections of confession”
Sorry beloved, but I’ve noticed over my course of time that far too many eyes are focussed on other than the Lord.

 

[Iconoclast]

“Sections of confession”
Sorry beloved, but I’ve noticed over my course of time that far too many eyes are focussed other than the Lord.

What do you mean by this?
Could you clarify your statement so I do not misunderstand your meaning, thanks.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Universalism is not taught in scripture. Election is.

Yes. Election is plainly taught in Scripture. But that is NOT election unto salvation or damnation. It is the election of the saints to eternal perfection and glorification. BIG DIFFERENCE.

God could not possibly elect anyone for salvation, since He has offered salvation to all mankind. That too is plainly taught in Scripture, so why don't you believe it? Answer: WILFUL BLINDNESS.

Wilful blindness is a terrible spiritual disease. It infected the scribes, lawyers, and Pharisees when Christ was on earth, and it infected Calvin and his disciples ever since the Reformation. Not one of the Reformers said: "Wait a minute. This doctrine of election unto salvation which we are teaching violates the Gospel. We need to back off and preach the true Gospel of Christ."

 

[Duskey]

Those are great verses found in different sections of the confession. A Confession of faith is like a toolbox, each section deals with a focused topic. In the first section it is just establishing that Scripture is the sole rule of faith and practice, so it starts of with 2 tim 3:15-17....it is not necessarily exhaustive, but meant to provoke further thought and study.


They spent months working on the wording of each section and the verses are designed to demonstrate it.

Do not let the simplicity of Christ be overshadowed by theological overdrive.

 

[Iconoclast]

Yes. Election is plainly taught in Scripture. But that is NOT election unto salvation or damnation. It is the election of the saints to eternal perfection and glorification. BIG DIFFERENCE.

God could not possibly elect anyone for salvation, since He has offered salvation to all mankind. That too is plainly taught in Scripture, so why don't you believe it? Answer: WILFUL BLINDNESS.

Wilful blindness is a terrible spiritual disease. It infected the scribes, lawyers, and Pharisees when Christ was on earth, and it infected Calvin and his disciples ever since the Reformation. Not one of the Reformers said: "Wait a minute. This doctrine of election unto salvation which we are teaching violates the Gospel. We need to back off and preach the true Gospel of Christ."

Yes. Election is plainly taught in Scripture. But that is NOT election unto salvation or damnation. It is the election of the saints to eternal perfection and glorification. BIG DIFFERENCE.

God could not possibly elect anyone for salvation, since He has offered salvation to all mankind. That too is plainly taught in Scripture, so why don't you believe it? Answer: WILFUL BLINDNESS.

Wilful blindness is a terrible spiritual disease. It infected the scribes, lawyers, and Pharisees when Christ was on earth, and it infected Calvin and his disciples ever since the Reformation. Not one of the Reformers said: "Wait a minute. This doctrine of election unto salvation which we are teaching violates the Gospel. We need to back off and preach the true Gospel of Christ."

I will show where the blindness is tommorow, lol.
Election unto salvation is the core teaching of the scripture as to the object of the love of God as the Covenant of redemption is .unfolded.....

 

[Iconoclast]

Do not let the simplicity of Christ be overshadowed by theological overdrive.

God did not give us a postcard, but 66 books.
Paul in 1 cor15:1-4 twice explains the gospel according to the scriptures plural.
We are meant to study all the books all the teaching, not make bumper stickers, or memes be our daily bread.

 

[dcontroversal]

May I interject? What Scripture are you interested in receiving?

Man up is the same phrase used by the other peddler of Calvin's doctrine....Man up is all he has...oh...other than what an ex Catholic from the mid 1500's had to say....!!

 

[dcontroversal]

Yes, good connection...

The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Look, a glutton and a winebibber, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’ But wisdom is justified by her children.” Matthew 11:19

Now if only @jackrosie can see the connection.. perhaps the Holy Spirit will do some revealing.

One can hope, but highly unlikely....Pharisees already know it all.....!!

 

[dcontroversal]

I just really wonder who appointed you as judge of person's spiritual life?

Her mentor......!

 

[jackrosie]

Funny how a month or so ago she was unsure of salvation and now all of a sudden is a Master Teacher arguing like she knows what she is talking about.....all the time bearing false witness against men, 1 of 7 things God hates.....but hey...wisdom is justified of her children!!!

The Holy Spirit knows what he is talking about,he is the Master Teacher and he has well warned me to stay away from you,Nenimah,eleventhhour,Dusky....

You all have one thing in common.....and many know what that is....so I won’t repeat it........your scripture knowledge and what it means,is extremely limited......but must say....your worldly mouths are still well and truly in gear.

 

[dcontroversal]

The Holy Spirit knows what he is talking about,he is the Master Teacher and he has well warned me to stay away from you,Nenimah,eleventhhour,Dusky....

You all have one thing in common.....and many know what that is....so I won’t repeat it........your scripture knowledge and what it means,is extremely limited......but must say....your worldly mouths are still well and truly in gear.

Yawn......look up the word vacillate....that fits you to a T.......so does.....false accuser....Try Proverbs 6 for that one......!!

 

[Nehemiah6]

The Holy Spirit knows what he is talking about,he is the Master Teacher and he has well warned me to stay away from you,Nenimah,eleventhhour,Dusky....

This is rich. But it was another spirit. Not the Holy Spirit.

 

[jackrosie]

This is rich. But it was another spirit. Not the Holy Spirit.

You wouldn’t know that,but you can voice what you believe to be “your” truth.....

You aren’t inside my heart.....Thank God.

 

[Blue_Of_Lake]

Romans 10:9-10

Matthew 18:3

…2Jesus invited a little child to stand among them. 3“Truly I tell you,” He said,“unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this little child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.…
Berean Study Bible · Download


Lexicon

“Truly
Ἀμὴν (Amēn)
Hebrew Word
Strong's Greek 281: Of Hebrew origin; properly, firm, i.e. trustworthy; adverbially, surely.

I tell
λέγω (legō)
Verb - Present Indicative Active - 1st Person Singular
Strong's Greek 3004: (a) I say, speak; I mean, mention, tell, (b) I call, name, especially in the pass., (c) I tell, command.

you,”
ὑμῖν (hymin)
Personal / Possessive Pronoun - Dative 2nd Person Plural
Strong's Greek 4771: You. The person pronoun of the second person singular; thou.

He said,
εἶπεν (eipen)
Verb - Aorist Indicative Active - 3rd Person Singular
Strong's Greek 2036: Answer, bid, bring word, command. A primary verb; to speak or say.

“unless
ἐὰν (ean)
Conjunction
Strong's Greek 1437: If. From ei and an; a conditional particle; in case that, provided, etc.

you change
στραφῆτε (straphēte)
Verb - Aorist Subjunctive Passive - 2nd Person Plural
Strong's Greek 4762: Strengthened from the base of trope; to twist, i.e. Turn quite around or reverse.

and
καὶ (kai)
Conjunction
Strong's Greek 2532: And, even, also, namely.

become
γένησθε (genēsthe)
Verb - Aorist Subjunctive Middle - 2nd Person Plural
Strong's Greek 1096: A prolongation and middle voice form of a primary verb; to cause to be, i.e. to become, used with great latitude.

like
ὡς (hōs)
Adverb
Strong's Greek 5613: Probably adverb of comparative from hos; which how, i.e. In that manner.

little children,
παιδία (paidia)
Noun - Nominative Neuter Plural
Strong's Greek 3813: Neuter diminutive of pais; a childling, i.e., an infant, or a half-grown boy or girl; figuratively, an immature Christian.

you will never enter
εἰσέλθητε (eiselthēte)
Verb - Aorist Subjunctive Active - 2nd Person Plural
Strong's Greek 1525: To go in, come in, enter. From eis and erchomai; to enter.

the
τὴν (tēn)
Article - Accusative Feminine Singular
Strong's Greek 3588: The, the definite article. Including the feminine he, and the neuter to in all their inflections; the definite article; the.

kingdom
βασιλείαν (basileian)
Noun - Accusative Feminine Singular
Strong's Greek 932: From basileus; properly, royalty, i.e. rule, or a realm.

of
τῶν (tōn)
Article - Genitive Masculine Plural
Strong's Greek 3588: The, the definite article. Including the feminine he, and the neuter to in all their inflections; the definite article; the.

heaven.
οὐρανῶν (ouranōn)
Noun - Genitive Masculine Plural
Strong's Greek 3772: Perhaps from the same as oros; the sky; by extension, heaven; by implication, happiness, power, eternity; specially, the Gospel.


Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers

(3) Except ye be converted.--The English word expresses the force of the Greek, but the "conversion" spoken of was not used in the definite, half-technical sense of later religious experiences. What was needed was that they should "turn" from their self-seeking ambition, and regain, in this respect, the relative blamelessness of children.
Ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.--The force of the words as spoken to the Twelve can hardly be exaggerated. They were disputing about precedence in the kingdom, and in that very dispute they were showing that they were not truly in it. It was essentially spiritual, and its first condition was abnegation of self. Even the chief of the Apostles was self-excluded when he gloried in his primacy. The words at least help us to understand the more mysterious language of John 3:3; John 3:5, as to the "new birth" of water and the Spirit, which one, at least, of the disputants must, in all likelihood, have heard.

Pulpit Commentary

Verse 3. - Except ye be convertedστραφῆτε); i.e. turned from proud, ambitious thoughts of worldly dignity. There is no question here about what is popularly known as conversion - the change from habitual sin to holiness. The conversion here spoken of is confined to a change in the present state of mind - to a new direction given to the thoughts and wishes. The apostles had shown rivalry, jealousy, ambition: they must turn away from such failings, and learn a different lesson. Become as little children. Christ points to little children as the model to which the members of his kingdom must assimilate themselves. The special attributes of children which he would recommend are humility, unworldliness, simplicity, teachableness, - the direct contraries of self-seeking, worldliness, distrust, conceit. Ye shall not enter. In the sermon on the mount Christ had said, "Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven" (Matthew 5:3). To all who are not such the gate opens not. That virtue which was unknown to pagan antiquity, the opposite character to which was upholden as the acme of excellence, Christ here asserts to be the only passport to his ideal Church on earth or its eternal development in heaven. Not the self-esteeming, proud man (μεγαλόψυχος) of Aristotle's worship ('Eth. Nic.,' 4:3), but the humble (ταπεινὸς), the lowly, the self-depreciating, is the man who can realize his position in the spiritual world, and shall be admitted to its blessings and benefits. St. Paul has summarized the ideal character of the members of the kingdom in 1 Corinthians 13, especially vers. 4, 5, and 7.

Matthew 18:3 Commentaries

 

[dcontroversal]

This is rich. But it was another spirit. Not the Holy Spirit.

Amen....she is fickle....a month ago she was all over the board and then she got indoctrinated and smoozed by one of the most divisive religionists on this site.....

 

[jackrosie]

God did not give us a postcard, but 66 books.
Paul in 1 cor15:1-4 twice explains the gospel according to the scriptures plural.
We are meant to study all the books all the teaching, not make bumper stickers, or memes be our daily bread.

I often wonder why God testified to my spirit like he did,it was such a huge revelation......yet when I speak to others who apparently are saved,they don’t have that fire for the Lord...do you know why that is?

Can you explain why he chose the elect?...or point me to your posts,if you have already explained....

 

[jackrosie]

Jeremiah 23
"Is not my word like fire", declares the Lord,"and like a hammer that breaks a rock in pieces?

 

[Grandpa]

I think you making an illogical argument>>> false equivocation.

Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men (you change to the elect men) unto justification of life. (Romans 5:18)

That is a logical fallacy.

Paul goes on to clarify that while sin did come upon all men, salvation is a gift it must be received, whereas he does not state that about the offence and Adam.

How could it POSSIBLY be a logical fallacy in light of ALL the scripture?

The only logical fallacy happening here is applying your definition of words to ALL words.


John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

How can this scripture be true if ALL men receive the gift of Righteousness and Justification and Eternal Life? It can't be true.

 

[1ofthem]

John 3

19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.