Chosen by God - A study in Election

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Status
Not open for further replies.
L

lenna

Guest
#141
#141
cv5 said:
Allow me to reiterate I am not a Calvinist.
I agree with all of your points. No doubt about it.
Your problem is that you SEEM to deny the doctrine of predestination, foreordination, and God's choosing. There are so many Scriptures that support it that it is clear-cut boilerplate doctrine.
Click to expand...

well there is a reason we keep think you are exactly a Calvinist

MacArthur is a Calvinist of high regard (among others of his persuasion, even has his ticket to heaven stamped by Calvin) and you link to his site.

so, the problem YOU are having today and in the past, is people not believing you are not a Calvinist

perhaps you are just not up to proving your belief without a little help from mr grace to you?

I mean, honestly, if I do not refer to myself as a polar bear, I will not quote from sites run by polar bears and what they believe and say that is just what I believe only I am not a polar bear
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#142
Nov 20, 2018
23,005
8,373
113
#142
Nehemiah6 said:
You should have read and studied Romans 10 before responding. So kindly go back and chew on what it teaches.
Click to expand...
Rom 11:36
For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom beglory forever. Amen.

Yes I understand Romans 10 (in my limited way). What we need to do is harmonize this with the doctrine of Sovereign choice, predestination foreordination from eternity past. All of which are indisputable doctrines of Scripture.

The bottom line is that true believers are indeed saved by faith through grace. But as far as God is concerned, all of this happened in eternity past according to His sovereign choice.

Quite simple really.
 
L

lenna

Guest
#143
#143
eternally-gratefull said:
who Cares what certain people think? Are you a people follower or God follower?
Click to expand...
actually we should care as Calvinists quote MacArthur and seem to be quite in love with him

besides, the video I linked to makes the errors of Calvinism more than apparent and MacArthur cannot even explain why the discrepancies so there is nothing left for the Calvinists to do but mock or belittle
 
L

lenna

Guest
#144
#144
eternally-gratefull said:
I just read what paul said

after you believed you were sealed

we we’re not saved before we were sealed, if we died before that state we would have went to hell lost
Click to expand...

even better

these folks want to teach that the Holy Spirit regenerates UNBELIEVERS and then saves them

that is backwards. utterly without merit and not found in scripture
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#145
#145
cv5 said:
Allow me to reiterate I am not a Calvinist.
I agree with all of your points. No doubt about it.
Your problem is that you SEEM to deny the doctrine of predestination, foreordination, and God's choosing. There are so many Scriptures that support it that it is clear-cut boilerplate doctrine.
Click to expand...
It is not possible to accept unconditional election without also accepting irresistible grace
 
L

lenna

Guest
#146
#146

I am inserting this video again with the note to pay special attention at the 4 minute mark when MacArthur states he cannot harmonize scripture that contradicts Calvinism

he does so in such a way as to illicit laughter from his audience

hahaha so funny. the Calvinist admits he cannot harmonize scripture but he should teach us all about how Calvinism is biblical

he needs a good smack upside his noggin with the Bible. a hard bound copy
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#147
#147
lenna said:

I am inserting this video again with the note to pay special attention at the 4 minute mark when MacArthur states he cannot harmonize scripture that contradicts Calvinism

he does so in such a way as to illicit laughter from his audience

hahaha so funny. the Calvinist admits he cannot harmonize scripture but he should teach us all about how Calvinism is biblical

he needs a good smack upside his noggin with the Bible0
Click to expand...
It is because he does not accept limited atonement, unless he has changed his mind ... but Calvinism only works as a system that must be taken as a whole.
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#148
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#148
cv5 said:
????????
Sorry .....you lost me there.
Click to expand...
Exactly . Just posting the verses doenst say much does it. I just posted the verse back and hoped you would read my mind .
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#149
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#149
cv5 said:
Amen. That would be God choosing those who will be given to Christ as a love gift.
Click to expand...
Your the most Calvinistic non calvinist on here then . You just need to say ' doctrines of grace " , The golden chain of redemption " and keep quoting dead theologians and you will be almost there
 
Iconoclast

Iconoclast

Senior Member
#150
May 27, 2017
994
247
43
usa
christianforumsuncensored.createaforum.com
#150
Nehemiah6 said:
Hahahaha. Even a child could explain John 3:15-17 to you. Even John Calvin could not (in good conscience) deny what is plainly stated therein.

DID MOSES SHUT OUT ANY ISRAELITES FROM THE REMEDY FOR SIN?
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness...

DOES CHRIST DRAW ALL MEN TO HIMSELF THROUGH THE CROSS?
...even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

DOES "WHOSOEVER" MEAN ANYONE AND EVERYONE REGARDLESS?
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

DID GOD LOVE ALL HUMANITY -- THE HUMAN RACE?
16 For God so loved the world...

IS CHRIST GOD'S GIFT OF SALVATION TO ALL ?
..that he gave his only begotten Son...

IS "WHOSOEVER" REPEATED TWICE SO THAT CALVINISTS WON'T HAVE AN EXCUSE?
...that whosoever believeth in him should not perish...

IS THE GIFT OF ETERNAL LIFE OFFERED FREELY TO ALL?
...but have everlasting life...

DOES "THE WORLD" HERE MEAN ALL OF HUMANITY -- THE INHABITANTS OF THE WORLD?
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world...

DOES GOD WANT THE WORLD OF HUMANITY TO BE SAVED?
....but that the world through him might be saved...

A WORD OF WARNING: THOSE ARE THE WORoDS OF CHRIST. BE CAREFUL THAT YOU DO NOT ATTEMPT TO MAKE CHRIST A LIAR WITH YOUR FALSE DOCTRINE.
Click to expand...
I will answer your nonsense in full, but just to help you out...
whosoever is not in the text.
The text actually says everyone believing, and continuing to believe,lol
look it up big guy,l
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#151
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#151
Iconoclast said:
It is better than NO TEXT strawman ideas🤔😏😏
Click to expand...
3¶If his offering be a burnt sacrifice of the herd, let him offer a male without blemish: he shall offer it of his own voluntary will at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation before the LORD.
see , does that help ?
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#152
Nov 20, 2018
23,005
8,373
113
#152
Nehemiah6 said:
Hahahaha. Even a child could explain John 3:15-17 to you. Even John Calvin could not (in good conscience) deny what is plainly stated therein.

DID MOSES SHUT OUT ANY ISRAELITES FROM THE REMEDY FOR SIN?
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness...

DOES CHRIST DRAW ALL MEN TO HIMSELF THROUGH THE CROSS?
...even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

DOES "WHOSOEVER" MEAN ANYONE AND EVERYONE REGARDLESS?
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

DID GOD LOVE ALL HUMANITY -- THE HUMAN RACE?
16 For God so loved the world...

IS CHRIST GOD'S GIFT OF SALVATION TO ALL ?
..that he gave his only begotten Son...

IS "WHOSOEVER" REPEATED TWICE SO THAT CALVINISTS WON'T HAVE AN EXCUSE?
...that whosoever believeth in him should not perish...

IS THE GIFT OF ETERNAL LIFE OFFERED FREELY TO ALL?
...but have everlasting life...

DOES "THE WORLD" HERE MEAN ALL OF HUMANITY -- THE INHABITANTS OF THE WORLD?
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world...

DOES GOD WANT THE WORLD OF HUMANITY TO BE SAVED?
....but that the world through him might be saved...

A WORD OF WARNING: THOSE ARE THE WORDS OF CHRIST. BE CAREFUL THAT YOU DO NOT ATTEMPT TO MAKE CHRIST A LIAR WITH YOUR FALSE DOCTRINE.
Click to expand...
Here are some more words from Jesus about God's Sovereign choice. It appears as if the Nazarites are filled with wrath because Jesus is implying that they are not chosen!

Luke 4:25
But in truth, I tell you, there were many widows in Israel in the days of Elijah, when the heavens were shut up three years and six months, and a great famine came over all the land, but to none of them was Elijah sent except to Zarephath, in the region of Sidon, to a woman who was a widow. And many lepers were in Israel in the time of Elisha the prophet, and none of them was cleansed except Naaman the Syrian.” So all those in the synagogue, when they heard these things, were filled with wrath
 
L

lenna

Guest
#153
#153
EleventhHour said:
It is because he does not accept limited atonement, unless he has changed his mind ... but Calvinism only works as a system that must be taken as a whole.
Click to expand...
hmm..well that alone is a good illustration of the problems. no one can get past the contradictions without insulting the Bible

but you know that. this is such an insidious belief system

he also states that it is not his problem to harmonize the scriptures concerning the differences with regards to Calvinism, which, it seems to me, illustrates the disdain exemplified by so many hard core Calvinists
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#154
#154
cv5 said:
Here are some more words from Jesus about God's Sovereign choice. It appears as if the Nazarites are filled with wrath because Jesus is implying that they are not chosen!

Luke 4:25
But in truth, I tell you, there were many widows in Israel in the days of Elijah, when the heavens were shut up three years and six months, and a great famine came over all the land, but to none of them was Elijah sent except to Zarephath, in the region of Sidon, to a woman who was a widow. And many lepers were in Israel in the time of Elisha the prophet, and none of them was cleansed except Naaman the Syrian.” So all those in the synagogue, when they heard these things, were filled with wrath
Click to expand...
Do you also believe support the doctrine of irresistible grace?
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#155
Nov 20, 2018
23,005
8,373
113
#155
EleventhHour said:
It is not possible to accept unconditional election without also accepting irresistible grace
Click to expand...
You are going to have to prove that Paul, John the Baptist and Jeremiah (and so many others) were not the beneficiaries of irresistible grace.
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#156
Nov 20, 2018
23,005
8,373
113
#156
throughfaith said:
Your the most Calvinistic non calvinist on here then . You just need to say ' doctrines of grace " , The golden chain of redemption " and keep quoting dead theologians and you will be almost there
Click to expand...
How about recently dead theologians like J.I. Packer?
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#157
Nov 20, 2018
23,005
8,373
113
#157
lenna said:

I am inserting this video again with the note to pay special attention at the 4 minute mark when MacArthur states he cannot harmonize scripture that contradicts Calvinism

he does so in such a way as to illicit laughter from his audience

hahaha so funny. the Calvinist admits he cannot harmonize scripture but he should teach us all about how Calvinism is biblical

he needs a good smack upside his noggin with the Bible. a hard bound copy
Click to expand...
Well........I suppose we are waiting for YOUR harmonization of predestination and free will.
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#158
Nov 20, 2018
23,005
8,373
113
#158
throughfaith said:
Your the most Calvinistic non calvinist on here then . You just need to say ' doctrines of grace " , The golden chain of redemption " and keep quoting dead theologians and you will be almost there
Click to expand...
Answer me one question: Did the apostles choose Christ or did Christ choose them?
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#159
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,776
113
#159
cv5 said:
You are going to have to prove that Paul, John the Baptist and Jeremiah (and so many others) were not the beneficiaries of irresistible grace.
Click to expand...
And you are confusing the election OF SPECIFIC INDIVIDUALS for ministry and service with the election of sinners for salvation. Huge difference.

You could include Moses, Elijah, David, and Solomon, etc. (including all the apostles) in that pantheon. Throughout the history of Israel, God chose (elected) certain men for certain tasks. You see this in the book of Judges. Gideon did not believe that he should be a deliverer in Israel, but God chose him for that job. Christ chose Peter as the apostle to the Jews (even after he denied the Lord thrice) and then He chose Paul as the apostle to the Gentiles, even though he murdered Christians.

But none of this has a bearing on salvation. Since salvation is offered to all, God cannot possibly choose some for salvation. That is why He requires OBEDIENCE TO THE GOSPEL. So you need to learn about this matter.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.