The Judging Thread

[Blain]

To judge another person or not is always a confusing debate, the word judge is used in different ways in scripture but I think in essence the message is pretty clear, we can rightly judge or discern but the issue comes when we condemn or look down upon
The word judge is more often than not used in the way to look down on and I think because of how this word is so commonly used we confuse it with it's actual meaning you have to pay close attention to how it is used in it's context this is why it is not a good idea to go based on the verse alone you have to understand the whole message of the passage

 

[Mii]

Oh and obviously we are not discussing something as simple as judging vermillion to be red or orange. Edit: Or even purple lol.



As we are all uniquely and wonderfully made, our perspectives vary. When it comes to people, unless there is a VERY clear violation, I am disinclined to "pass judgement". If I were the only person who saw something a particular way without anyone "leaning" in my direction, I would submit that judgement before the Lord and let him work it as he sees fit.

Besides, I've seen it play out that 5 years down the road as I mature, my judgement becomes more balanced about a person. Specific judgements play a role, but "in total" judgements cannot reasonably be made outside very clear interaction from the Lord.

If that is again vague, I apologize.

 

[Lion222]

if you say will its simple, you just judge rightly everyone thinks yes.. and everyone thinks what they think is right. But the bible is clear about what God thinks about what men think is right.
So lets stick with the details of the word of God.

I think the problem with judging comes about when it is mixed with no forgiveness and with blame.

Scripture tells us to tell other Christians they are doing wrong if they disobey scripture and that takes judgment. But we are also to forgive, and we are to let them choose their way but leave the judgement of the person to the Lord.

I think this includes our accepting judgement of actions without taking it as a judgement of the people who act. Putting labels on people is wrong, but we can say a certain action is not following scripture.

This site is a place where we can judge scripture and should be able to freely discuss scripture. It becomes wrong judgement when it involves judging the people instead of the actions and scripture.

by judging he people you mean judging the motives of their hearts or condemnation or are those one and the same?

 

[Blain]

Oh and obviously we are not discussing something as simple as judging vermillion to be red or orange. Edit: Or even purple lol.



As we are all uniquely and wonderfully made, our perspectives vary. When it comes to people, unless there is a VERY clear violation, I am disinclined to "pass judgement". If I were the only person who saw something a particular way without anyone "leaning" in my direction, I would submit that judgement before the Lord and let him work it as he sees fit.

Besides, I've seen it play out that 5 years down the road as I mature, my judgement becomes more balanced about a person. Specific judgements play a role, but "in total" judgements cannot reasonably be made outside very clear interaction from the Lord.

If that is again vague, I apologize.

I like how you phrased it as pass judgment, judging a persons character is one thing but to pass judgment is another and I mean judging a persons character in the sense taking note and discerning. Passing judgement is quite simply never a confusing term

 

[Lion222]

To judge another person or not is always a confusing debate, the word judge is used in different ways in scripture but I think in essence the message is pretty clear, we can rightly judge or discern but the issue comes when we condemn or look down upon
The word judge is more often than not used in the way to look down on and I think because of how this word is so commonly used we confuse it with it's actual meaning you have to pay close attention to how it is used in it's context this is why it is not a good idea to go based on the verse alone you have to understand the whole message of the passage

Looking down is one, but taking up our own defense can result in the same thing.

I think in order to judge rightly you must be fully engaged in judging yourself.
Otherwise we will be judged for our judging.

Our own hearts are the only real issue when we judge.
Our hearts make our judgments right or wrong more so then any fact or bible verse.

Should we not judge for the benefit of others rather then ourselves?

But how much judgement is metered out for the sake of our self defense, our justification and our correctness/pride?

How often do we let our judgement exist only to bless one another?

Is it possible to focus on of the judgement we are given to exercise as a means to bless?

 

[Blain]

Looking down is one, but taking up our own defense can result in the same thing.

I think in order to judge rightly you must be fully engaged in judging yourself.
Otherwise we will be judged for our judging.

Our own hearts are the only real issue when we judge.
Our hearts make our judgments right or wrong more so then any fact or bible verse.

Should we not judge for the benefit of others rather then ourselves?

But how much judgement is metered out for the sake of our self defense, our justification and our correctness/pride?

How often do we let our judgement exist only to bless one another?

Is it possible to focus on of the judgement we are given to exercise as a means to bless?

True the heart is by far the most important aspect in it, as far as self defence I suppose it is kind of like how a bully does they do because of their own insecurities maybe a person might believe they are not to judge as a kind of guard because they are afraid of being judged or a person might be judging others because of their own insecurities of being judged the heart is a tricky thing.

The way I see it to rightly judge you first have to above all have love in your heart without love you condemn or look down on but in love if we were to use the word judge in this way we give correction and correction is what teaches

 

[Lion222]

True the heart is by far the most important aspect in it, as far as self defence I suppose it is kind of like how a bully does they do because of their own insecurities maybe a person might believe they are not to judge as a kind of guard because they are afraid of being judged or a person might be judging others because of their own insecurities of being judged the heart is a tricky thing.

The way I see it to rightly judge you first have to above all have love in your heart without love you condemn or look down on but in love if we were to use the word judge in this way we give correction and correction is what teaches

It is good that you see that.
Truth is everything is that tricky.
The road is very narrow and there is error on the left and the right of the true path.
You need to be able to see both from where you stand or your are off in one or the other.

Cool, because God AKA Love is our judge so be like Love in His judgement.
Love is the fulfillment of the law.
I like that

 

[Mii]

I had a thought process about this coming back to the forum, that is, are interactions with children useful in this discussion?


It is in scripture that we are the children of God yes? However we are to put off the things of childhood. Another distinction is made with babes in Christ, what vs adults? I do not see the word adult in scripture or even the concept.

I have tried to understand this (it has an on-topic tie in) as potentially the difference between and infant, a toddler, and then perhaps more like a 3-4 year old.

My memories started at 3 and I could talk. In fact, I did a lot, hearing some of my mother's memories related it fits rather well lol. Anyway...so if I was "alive" as an infant I do not recall. Same with 12-36 months. These both built off each other and presumably had a role in who I am today but how does this translate to being a babe (infant?) in Christ.

I'm going to off-topic with the mood I'm in, but this is something that hit me the other day with regard to spiritual maturity and the amount of time I have been a believer. I was simulating some things and just being a bit "vain" in scenarios and the person's response "what they would say" was "act your age" except in a spiritual sense. Literally dude: "What are you doing? you are much older than this."

Like an infant being incontinent is one thing but a 10 year old just deciding wet himself when he clearly has learned not to?

In a spiritual sense these type of behavior (habitually) represents a very serious problem due to age. If a child were learning to be continent and had an "accident" that's a different matter than "on purposes".


Someone that I know has been a believer for 20+ years my response (judgement) would be MUCH different than someone who is a 1-year old in Christ. Some people are gifted to be mature beyond their years or with a lot of native wisdom and understanding but practically living it out day by day cannot be compared "easily".


So a person's maturity factors in is what I am getting at. If through a simple conversation they demonstrate a lack of maturity I judge myself if I let it bother me overmuch. Much like you wouldn't get angry for a child having accidents in potty training...beyond that the behaviors of toddlers. They are still growing. If you are frustrated and angry you move past it (in love/maturity). We are maturing in the Lord's love as a new creation so of course that should be central to our walk.

Correction where it is due requires sound judgement. I just figured I'd point out the maturity element.


If a person is almost certainly a false Jesus or a wolf...judgement is necessary and in my view, required. I could explain the requirement as based in maturity but some precepts are difficult to explain (even with scripture) for me unless the Holy Spirit were with both of us in making it clear. Just that as I mature, different ways of service and service without any glory or praise on my part to an overwhelmingly complex masterpiece of a degree is what opens up and Jesus words come back to me in rather strong ways regarding the certain verses he mentioned children.


In any case, I have a lot of patience for "maturation" but not immaturity. That is something we are to judge for sure, ideally though, we have confirmation with another.

How many of you have ever followed the system laid out about having an offense with your brother? Sometimes it does take 2 or 3. I've recalled that since I was quite young and it wasn't until I got much older that I even had the maturity to employ it and I have not ever had to resort to bringing a matter before the whole church. Which when gossip/"judgy judgements" are spread about and rendered, isn't that improper form entirely? It feels so to me strongly. Dirty laundry needs to be done...but like, we have a washer and he makes us clean. We don't need to "air" it if that makes sense. I realize I have just compared the Lord to a washing machine which illustrates it well but the Lord is not a machine or a human invention and so it fails, alas. I've seen pastors utter such things and I haven't ever "judged" it entirely... amiss, so I'll leave it there.

A bit lengthy and unstructured perhaps but there ya go (insert friendly emoticon).

 

[laughingheart]

There is an important distinction between judging and using good judgement. A great truth about the first is that criticizing others is a dishonest way of praising yourself (not my original words but a favourite truth). The second employs wisdom.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Looking down is one, but taking up our own defense can result in the same thing.

I think in order to judge rightly you must be fully engaged in judging yourself.
Otherwise we will be judged for our judging.

Our own hearts are the only real issue when we judge.
Our hearts make our judgments right or wrong more so then any fact or bible verse.

Should we not judge for the benefit of others rather then ourselves?

But how much judgement is metered out for the sake of our self defense, our justification and our correctness/pride?

How often do we let our judgement exist only to bless one another?

Is it possible to focus on of the judgement we are given to exercise as a means to bless?

I think people forget, God does not need us to, defend him, he is perfectly capable, deep down we all should know this, so where does it come from, this need to assert our view and defend it at all cost, even at the cost of tearing others down.

it can only,come from inside, so as you say we need to judge ourselves,

 

[Locoponydirtman]

The fortification of the debauched, "don't judge me".

It's not judgement to say that a person is doing a thing that they are indeed doing.

 

[Corban]

So they judge to get rid of the leaven of righteousness?

Poor leaven gets an undeserved bad rap.
It is what grows and spreads throughout if allowed to exist, given time and the right conditions.
It makes bubbles, a picture of joy, it makes wine, a picture of joy it also puffs up in pride if we lack the softness of heart of a new wine skin or one softened with the oil of the Holy Spirit.

Righteousness (Christ), sin (Egypt), pride (Pharisees)
Without it we would not have nice bread.
Nuances.

Having worked as a baker i take umbrage on the behalf of poor little leaven at it's being falsely equated with sin.
Matthew 13:33

1 Corinthians 5:6-7

Bread and wine skins have some of the same issues.

They both can burst when baked in the fire from either too much puff or to hard an outer skin or an unnatural shape stressing the surfs
You usually beat down the first rise of the bread, as if it was pride.
But the second rise is slower while an unforced or natural shape and good skin form when proofed with water and time.
Proofed - meaning to test and prove.

We all will enter the fire of Gods presence one day and see what will become of us.

I'm sorry for your feelings, but leaven is NEVER positive in the Bible. It does what you say. It make palatable what normally is difficult. And it makes bread something it is not. But hats off to your profession. Baker is one of the professions which needs constant hard work and long hours. Our local baker starts at four in the morning.

Matthew 13:33 "Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened."

In Matthew Chapter 13 we have the "mysteries" of the Kingdom. Seven parables are told. Four are told from a boat to the "multitude". They begin with "The Kingdom of Heaven is LIKE". The word "like" can mean "alike", or similar, or it can mean "looks like", in which case it does not have to be the same.

1. Jesus spake in Parables so that the "multitude" would NOT understand
2. The Kingdom only applies to born-again Christians (Jn.3:3-5) so disciples are meant
3. "Meal" is bread that has NOT undergone the flames and/or heat of baking - Christians who have not been pruned or refined
4. Three measures mean that the recipients have the number of resurrection - Christians
5. There are only two women connected with the Kingdom Heaven - Mystery Babylon and New Jerusalem
6. The "Woman" is negative. She must be a woman sitting on a Beast on seven hills - Rome

In 313 AD, Rome, under emperor Constantine, declared Christianity a State religion. As 95% of the world (or more) where still pagan, Constantine and his following emperors mixed the Word of God with pagan philosophy and names. So were born Christmas, Easter and Halloween (All Saints) and all the non-biblical traditions the Roman Church teaches. The unrefined Christians received these traditions - and the "whole lump was leavened". You may eat any amount of leavened bread on this Forum - men's input and additions to God's Word to make it more palatable.

 

[Corban]

Ty @Corban for putting forward the word "discriminate"

For whatever reason, it did not enter into my thoughts.


I was simply going to focus on "executive judgement" as in the ultimate say-so/veto power. Who has that?

Great care must be taken to know your place as a judge under THE judge.


Excommunication is something seen in scripture. This isn't lifelong though from what I can tell (like it is in some places today). Excommunication is to serve a purpose.

There are instances when certain offenses get into a category that only the Lord can rightly judge...consider the passage in Jude about the body of Moses. I'm uncertain whether any translation uses a different word than rebuke but to rebuke, judgement must be exercised.


I think according to a court room, or at least, my mind has begun to work that way. Each "case" is different. A different "lens" exists for people outside the church and that should be seriously considered before proceeding in any executory judgements.

"I judge this person to be someone I am not to judge"
"I judge this person as being guilty"
"I judge this person to be beyond my judgement" (submitted to a higher judge)

Alas, my issue right now is English. prhaps an easier distinction would be judgements in the old man and judgements in the new.

The following has been debated and it appears to me the flesh is still a factor, however: discernment between whether one is judging in the flesh or the spirit (The Lord guiding thereby). "Judge" this, and the question will have much less relevance. If this is not done, then I question someone's judgement if it is meted with any regularity.

The last sentence I'll expound a tiny bit. Basically, if someone who rarely gives judgement but is a strong believer and passes judgement, I am more inclined to take it seriously even though they may not have correct "judgement procedure" on the forefront of their mind. So long as I perceive they are led of the Lord, this carries great weight.

Someone that it is always "passing judgement" to the point where that phrase or a similar is used or though on by others, and these are seasoned believers...I would be inclined to perceive that they are in error and perhaps need some discussion/correction.

A further alas, I've been in these predicament before but somehow or another when I click on a section to edit, it just gets highlighted. If I go to add something in a place...when I type it starts to delete what I have already typed. I fixed it for a long time but it is back

But yeah, I think that "deferring" to the Lord's judgment in eternal matters should be done and in practical day to day matters, exercise judgement (with discernment) and of course seek wise counsel on difficult issues and pray and seek about it. It could be the reason why the Lord is not responding through prayer or the word is because you are capable to make a decision about a person, thing, event, circumstance, etc. That is, if he does not. Or it could be a timing thing. There's a lot to figure out, but it's an organic figuring out, not something that's forced.

Rather roundabout, I apologize. There is a good deal to be said if we are contrasting "instances" and what is appropriate and what is not. Too many to list but perhaps some good discussion will continue to be had on this subject.

I would post some scriptures, but the main ones have been given. One direct element that I haven't seen discussed is vengeance. THAT type of judgement is not ours nor can we mete it out. That is totally up to the Lord to mete out. I had thought to post a vengeance scripture, but there are many more than I recalled offhand (lots more). Perhaps this has been discussed vaguely but the specific word is useful here it seems to me.

Just to keep things straight, "discriminate" was introduce by Lion222 in posting # 37. I just stated that "discriminate" was a different concept to "judge". It's no problem at all, but now the record is straight.

Go well brother.

 

[Benadam]

In John 20 verse 23 at the end.

Jesus said to the Apostles " sins you retain are retained."

He expects us to be able to see into the heart.

 

[Lion222]

I had a thought process about this coming back to the forum, that is, are interactions with children useful in this discussion?


It is in scripture that we are the children of God yes? However we are to put off the things of childhood. Another distinction is made with babes in Christ, what vs adults? I do not see the word adult in scripture or even the concept.

I have tried to understand this (it has an on-topic tie in) as potentially the difference between and infant, a toddler, and then perhaps more like a 3-4 year old.

My memories started at 3 and I could talk. In fact, I did a lot, hearing some of my mother's memories related it fits rather well lol. Anyway...so if I was "alive" as an infant I do not recall. Same with 12-36 months. These both built off each other and presumably had a role in who I am today but how does this translate to being a babe (infant?) in Christ.

I'm going to off-topic with the mood I'm in, but this is something that hit me the other day with regard to spiritual maturity and the amount of time I have been a believer. I was simulating some things and just being a bit "vain" in scenarios and the person's response "what they would say" was "act your age" except in a spiritual sense. Literally dude: "What are you doing? you are much older than this."

Like an infant being incontinent is one thing but a 10 year old just deciding wet himself when he clearly has learned not to?

In a spiritual sense these type of behavior (habitually) represents a very serious problem due to age. If a child were learning to be continent and had an "accident" that's a different matter than "on purposes".


Someone that I know has been a believer for 20+ years my response (judgement) would be MUCH different than someone who is a 1-year old in Christ. Some people are gifted to be mature beyond their years or with a lot of native wisdom and understanding but practically living it out day by day cannot be compared "easily".


So a person's maturity factors in is what I am getting at. If through a simple conversation they demonstrate a lack of maturity I judge myself if I let it bother me overmuch. Much like you wouldn't get angry for a child having accidents in potty training...beyond that the behaviors of toddlers. They are still growing. If you are frustrated and angry you move past it (in love/maturity). We are maturing in the Lord's love as a new creation so of course that should be central to our walk.

Correction where it is due requires sound judgement. I just figured I'd point out the maturity element.


If a person is almost certainly a false Jesus or a wolf...judgement is necessary and in my view, required. I could explain the requirement as based in maturity but some precepts are difficult to explain (even with scripture) for me unless the Holy Spirit were with both of us in making it clear. Just that as I mature, different ways of service and service without any glory or praise on my part to an overwhelmingly complex masterpiece of a degree is what opens up and Jesus words come back to me in rather strong ways regarding the certain verses he mentioned children.


In any case, I have a lot of patience for "maturation" but not immaturity. That is something we are to judge for sure, ideally though, we have confirmation with another.

How many of you have ever followed the system laid out about having an offense with your brother? Sometimes it does take 2 or 3. I've recalled that since I was quite young and it wasn't until I got much older that I even had the maturity to employ it and I have not ever had to resort to bringing a matter before the whole church. Which when gossip/"judgy judgements" are spread about and rendered, isn't that improper form entirely? It feels so to me strongly. Dirty laundry needs to be done...but like, we have a washer and he makes us clean. We don't need to "air" it if that makes sense. I realize I have just compared the Lord to a washing machine which illustrates it well but the Lord is not a machine or a human invention and so it fails, alas. I've seen pastors utter such things and I haven't ever "judged" it entirely... amiss, so I'll leave it there.

A bit lengthy and unstructured perhaps but there ya go (insert friendly emoticon).

Maturity is to be considered.
Our own perhaps first.


Should we find security in confirmation with others?
Is that not exactly what people do, look for others to confirm their judgments?

Jesus call for people to judge was a call for those without sin (mature) to judge.
Our sin taints our perspective, clouds our view of what is real and true and of what is God or not.

I have seen the wolves have confirmation with one another in order to put Christ out of the Church.
I have watches pastors lie and elders change their stories when it came time to take a stand.
All you need to do is call one out in their sin, or deliver a true word from God and then you see the so called "shepherds" take off their sheep's clothing and agree to devour while while the fools join in and the cowards hide themselves hoping not to end up on the menu.

 

[Lion222]

In John 20 verse 23 at the end.

Jesus said to the Apostles " sins you retain are retained."

He expects us to be able to see into the heart.

I agree.
But it is the sin in our own hearts we see in others.

When you have a log in your eyes that is all you can see.

Your sin makes it impossible to see the sins of others or be of any help/blessing to them in regards to judgement.
Good judgement is like good sight, log free and ready to help.

 

[Lion222]

In John 20 verse 23 at the end.

Jesus said to the Apostles " sins you retain are retained."

He expects us to be able to see into the heart.

I agree.
But it is the sin in our own hearts we see in others.

When you have a log in your eye that is all you can see.

Your sin makes it impossible to see the sins of others or be of any help/blessing to them in regards to judgement/discernment of that sin.
Good judgement is like good sight, log free.

But most people can not even accept the fact that is it possible to cease from sin, they have been taught falsely to abandon any faith in it in this life.
So how can they ever hope to judge rightly?
They just ignore Peters clear teachings.
They treat the call to be holy and perfect as your father is, like some non possible reality, ignoring the fact of God being able even when we are not and abandoning faith in Him to save us through sanctification, the very purpose of the Gospel as Peter says.

 

[Lanolin]

been criticised a lot but not sure thats really judging, as havent been in a courtroom and had to plead my case before a judge.

Mostly just shrug off criticism as anyone can be a critic if they got nothing better to do. That is their problem, not mine. I got to God for counsel first, not people.

 

[Nehemiah6]

In John 20 verse 23 at the end. Jesus said to the Apostles " sins you retain are retained." He expects us to be able to see into the heart.

I believe you are misunderstanding the words of Christ. Only God can look into hearts. But Christians can see what happens and draw conclusions from that.

As to the verse you quoted, Christ gave the apostles apostolic authority to deal with known sins within specific churches. They were authorized to either forgive those sins or pronounce judgment on them. The case of Ananias and Sapphira is a good example.

 

[Blain]

It is good that you see that.
Truth is everything is that tricky.
The road is very narrow and there is error on the left and the right of the true path.
You need to be able to see both from where you stand or your are off in one or the other.

Cool, because God AKA Love is our judge so be like Love in His judgement.
Love is the fulfillment of the law.
I like that

I had a thought process about this coming back to the forum, that is, are interactions with children useful in this discussion?


It is in scripture that we are the children of God yes? However we are to put off the things of childhood. Another distinction is made with babes in Christ, what vs adults? I do not see the word adult in scripture or even the concept.

I have tried to understand this (it has an on-topic tie in) as potentially the difference between and infant, a toddler, and then perhaps more like a 3-4 year old.

My memories started at 3 and I could talk. In fact, I did a lot, hearing some of my mother's memories related it fits rather well lol. Anyway...so if I was "alive" as an infant I do not recall. Same with 12-36 months. These both built off each other and presumably had a role in who I am today but how does this translate to being a babe (infant?) in Christ.

I'm going to off-topic with the mood I'm in, but this is something that hit me the other day with regard to spiritual maturity and the amount of time I have been a believer. I was simulating some things and just being a bit "vain" in scenarios and the person's response "what they would say" was "act your age" except in a spiritual sense. Literally dude: "What are you doing? you are much older than this."

Like an infant being incontinent is one thing but a 10 year old just deciding wet himself when he clearly has learned not to?

In a spiritual sense these type of behavior (habitually) represents a very serious problem due to age. If a child were learning to be continent and had an "accident" that's a different matter than "on purposes".


Someone that I know has been a believer for 20+ years my response (judgement) would be MUCH different than someone who is a 1-year old in Christ. Some people are gifted to be mature beyond their years or with a lot of native wisdom and understanding but practically living it out day by day cannot be compared "easily".


So a person's maturity factors in is what I am getting at. If through a simple conversation they demonstrate a lack of maturity I judge myself if I let it bother me overmuch. Much like you wouldn't get angry for a child having accidents in potty training...beyond that the behaviors of toddlers. They are still growing. If you are frustrated and angry you move past it (in love/maturity). We are maturing in the Lord's love as a new creation so of course that should be central to our walk.

Correction where it is due requires sound judgement. I just figured I'd point out the maturity element.


If a person is almost certainly a false Jesus or a wolf...judgement is necessary and in my view, required. I could explain the requirement as based in maturity but some precepts are difficult to explain (even with scripture) for me unless the Holy Spirit were with both of us in making it clear. Just that as I mature, different ways of service and service without any glory or praise on my part to an overwhelmingly complex masterpiece of a degree is what opens up and Jesus words come back to me in rather strong ways regarding the certain verses he mentioned children.


In any case, I have a lot of patience for "maturation" but not immaturity. That is something we are to judge for sure, ideally though, we have confirmation with another.

How many of you have ever followed the system laid out about having an offense with your brother? Sometimes it does take 2 or 3. I've recalled that since I was quite young and it wasn't until I got much older that I even had the maturity to employ it and I have not ever had to resort to bringing a matter before the whole church. Which when gossip/"judgy judgements" are spread about and rendered, isn't that improper form entirely? It feels so to me strongly. Dirty laundry needs to be done...but like, we have a washer and he makes us clean. We don't need to "air" it if that makes sense. I realize I have just compared the Lord to a washing machine which illustrates it well but the Lord is not a machine or a human invention and so it fails, alas. I've seen pastors utter such things and I haven't ever "judged" it entirely... amiss, so I'll leave it there.

A bit lengthy and unstructured perhaps but there ya go (insert friendly emoticon).

This is absolutely amazing and so insightful I can tell you have pondered deeply on this and I agree completely. Maturity is a major factor and the judgment on both receiving ends needs to be addressed in the aspect of maturity.

You can be a believer for 40 years but still be a babe and not even know it you can tell because of how they act and react when opposed, on the other hand when one is being attacked how they handle the attack and how they react to it shows the level of maturity. Love does not retaliate and when recieving correction love does not claim to be judged they gladly receive it and learn from it.

A persons age and even how long they have been saved does not mean they are that age in Christ there have been plenty of examples here in the bdf alone let alone in Christianity in general, it requires maturity and patience and love to know the difference of receiving correction and being judged a child in Christ at least for me and my relationship is one of adoration a Child who loves to laugh and play with him one who has that innocent childlike love with him your not trying to be strong your not trying to be maturity you just love him and love talking and being with him

This without you even knowing it brings that maturity in Christ you are filled with him and love and you learn how to recieve and handle and also how not to so you are a small child in his love but a mature adult in Christ
To understand judging if I were to say anything it would be the same advice that I always say to people and the first and best advice he spoke to me when I was first saved 7 years ago seek love above everything else and then everything else will fall into place

We can discuss and debate all we want but only love and only that deep and beautiful bond between him and us is going to truly show and reveal the truth of any matter. I probably got off topic but I just think it needs to be said and understood by all who would receive it