Where do you stand: Legalism VS License

[SarahUmbreon]

So as I’m chilling at home, I thought about the perfect thing to discuss: Legalism VS License

Anything I say is taken as reference from the Bible study “Romans: Good News that changes everything by Melissa Spoelstra”

So I did this study back in January of this year, and the point of talking about Legalism VS License is that you don’t want one or the other to take over your path as a Christian.

License is the mindset of “Anything goes”, while Legalism is “Follow all the rules”, here is a explanation the author used to describe legalism and why it’s bad:

“Warren Wiersbe defines legalism in his Romans commentary as ‘the belief that I can become holy and please God by obeying laws. It is measuring spirituality by a list of dos and don’ts.’ Extreme legalism can sometimes be easier to identify, but we must guard against the subtle ways it can creep into our spiritual rhythms. God knows our human tendency to want to check boxes...When we mark these off in our minds, we can start feeling pretty good about ourselves. As we get good at being good, we also get good at being judgmental.”

So where do you stand? I’m trying to balance both, as I will try my best to follow God’s law, but sometimes I still struggle with judging people, especially if fashion wise they weird me out like a man with painted nails or a woman with a “Man haircut” basically. But I pray and repent, for I know I need to love people, as God loves everyone. But I will stand strong to the best of my ability to God’s law.

 

[Butterflyyy]

I have fallen prey to both ways over the years; and I know that when I draw near to God He draws near to me; when I ask Him to show me if anything is hindering me and if there’s anything I need to repent of, He does; and I am reminded of the scripture in Romans:

14 For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. 15 The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by him we cry, “Abba, Father.” 16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. 17 Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory. 😊❤️

 

[Butterflyyy]

Lol... if I saw a man with painted nails or a woman with a man’s hair-cut I think the correct response is one of love and in my heart I am sure I would pray for them...xx

 

[SarahUmbreon]

Lol... if I saw a man with painted nails or a woman with a man’s hair-cut I think the correct response is one of love and in my heart I am sure I would pray for them...xx

I pray for everyone to find and seek God, but I'm human and mess up. Being having problems trying to figure out who I am and been having stress over it. That's why I'm doing online therapy and got back on antidepressants, I'll get off my medication once this virus stuff ends, because my whole life has gotten nothing but stressful since this virus stuff started, especially at my job and in my personal life.

 

[Butterflyyy]

I’m sorry to hear that... just keep trusting Him every second, of every minute of every day... Peace comes from trusting Him, these are difficult days but God is the greatest, and He is the winner😊
Remember, when you read Gods Word it is so powerful. It will bless you and give you peace.
I have been reading Psalms and they are helping me x
Isaiah 26 v3

 

[BlueTheComposer]

I don't fully agree that people become judgemental because they follow all of the rules, but rather believing that following all of the rules is a requirement to please God. Obviously God is pleased when we follow his commandments because it is a just thing to do. The cause of being judgemental is that we forget that God is also patient and merciful, not destroying us because we don't follow the rules or when we fail, and we need to see his mercy towards those who have no problem with sin. After all, we were all in the same boat once and have no right to judge anyone. We can't expect non-Christians to meet God's standards because not even we can. That's why God's forgiveness is called grace, because none of us deserve it yet he's given it to us anyway.

 

[Scribe]

Their is much joy in total surrender and a clear conscience. If you feel the Holy Spirit is grieved follow that check and steer clear of it.

Legalism, at it's core, is just another work of the flesh. Legalism is an attempt to do only what is necessary to gain a "legal status of being ok" without having to deal with the heart issues that really need attention.

Legalism is an attempt to quiet the conscience convicting you in one area by doing something to make up for it in another area.

Legalism therefore results in a form of licentiousness.

 

[Deuteronomy]

Warren Wiersbe defines legalism in his Romans commentary as ‘the belief that I can become holy and please God by obeying laws. It is measuring spirituality by a list of dos and don’ts.’

Hello Sarah, it seems to me that as Christians, it's always best for us to obey God/His word, because whenever we don't, we sin, yes

That said, I also believe that true believers choose to obey Him because we,

1. love Him ​

2. want to honor, glorify and be pleasing to Him in all that we do ​

3. have been made into wholly new creatures by Him (with a new nature/new self) as His workmanship/masterpiece .. e.g. Matthew 5:16; 2 Corinthians 5:9, 17; Ephesians 2:10, 4:22-24; 1 Thessalonians 4:1.......​

.......NOT because we think that we can become holy and save ourselves by doing so, even in part.

I'm not sure if this was exactly what you were after, but it's what came to mind when I read the portion of your post that I quoted above.

BTW, I love Dr. Wiersbe and have enjoyed everything of his that I've read, and I certainly agree with what he said above.

God bless you!

~Deut

Titus 3​

5 He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy.​

​

 

[Subhumanoidal]

So as I’m chilling at home, I thought about the perfect thing to discuss: Legalism VS License

Anything I say is taken as reference from the Bible study “Romans: Good News that changes everything by Melissa Spoelstra”

So I did this study back in January of this year, and the point of talking about Legalism VS License is that you don’t want one or the other to take over your path as a Christian.

License is the mindset of “Anything goes”, while Legalism is “Follow all the rules”, here is a explanation the author used to describe legalism and why it’s bad:

“Warren Wiersbe defines legalism in his Romans commentary as ‘the belief that I can become holy and please God by obeying laws. It is measuring spirituality by a list of dos and don’ts.’ Extreme legalism can sometimes be easier to identify, but we must guard against the subtle ways it can creep into our spiritual rhythms. God knows our human tendency to want to check boxes...When we mark these off in our minds, we can start feeling pretty good about ourselves. As we get good at being good, we also get good at being judgmental.”

So where do you stand? I’m trying to balance both, as I will try my best to follow God’s law, but sometimes I still struggle with judging people, especially if fashion wise they weird me out like a man with painted nails or a woman with a “Man haircut” basically. But I pray and repent, for I know I need to love people, as God loves everyone. But I will stand strong to the best of my ability to God’s law.

Well I think people confuse "following the rules" with the condition of a persons heart. People can follow the rules, or at least appear to, but that is no measure of their heart or closeness with God.
Following the rules is not meant as a demand you must follow to be spiritual, but rather a measure of where you are at based off of whether or not you Want to obey.
The person that follows all the rules can still be distant from God, and the person struggling to keep the rules can still be seeking to know God.

I think of it like this, if I'm talking with a friend and they inadvertently hit on a sensitive topic and I get upset, I may say things defensively. I may not mean what I say, but rather I am reacting to being triggered.
Of course I'm still responsible for my words and actions, but does it reflect my intentions? No. Those words aren't about what I believe.
I find it easier to forgive people for such things as I understand what it's like to say things from a defensive position that aren't how I feel.

I'd suggest anyone that believes they are free to do whatever they wish doesn't actually know and understand the bibles teachings, and therefore do they actually understand salvation itself? To me such people are the seeds that fall on shallow ground, then die off quickly.

From what I've seen the best way to get past being judgmental is to get to know more about the person/people/topic.
You may still disagree, but often times judgment comes from assuming negatives but having little to no facts.
To me the best example of this is when I was a teen. I was into metal and it showed, long hair, chain wallet, combat boots, black band shirts, etc... i was also a leader at my churches youth group.
One parent spotted me and questioned her children about me and was shocked I was a leader. Every week when she picked her kids up she would quiz them about me, since she was Certain I was up to no good. Yet week after week they really had nothing to tell.
One night, after youth, some of the parents were outside chatting and I walked up. This woman singled me out in the conversation quickly.
Over time we talked more and she realized i wasn't a horrible person that was there to corrupt. We became such good friends that I regularly babysat her children and was at her home so much it was like my second home.
She still wasn't a fan of the music, haha, but learned a lesson in judging nonetheless.

 

[Lanolin]

tis a tricky one sometimes.
I think the way to look at it is see the commandments as guidelines or maxims rather than rules? Humans have a tendency to see rules as something either to be broken or something they cant hope to measure up to.

The two commandments given to us are basically two commandments to LOVE God and one another. How we do that is down to how much we yield to Christ in us saying 'do this in the spirit of love' as love must be our motivation.

another thing is how to we measure how much we love someone? a lot of the time we cant. Its beyond measure. Its not about how much flowers or chocolates we give out!

 

[SarahUmbreon]

Well I think people confuse "following the rules" with the condition of a persons heart. People can follow the rules, or at least appear to, but that is no measure of their heart or closeness with God.
Following the rules is not meant as a demand you must follow to be spiritual, but rather a measure of where you are at based off of whether or not you Want to obey.
The person that follows all the rules can still be distant from God, and the person struggling to keep the rules can still be seeking to know God.

I think of it like this, if I'm talking with a friend and they inadvertently hit on a sensitive topic and I get upset, I may say things defensively. I may not mean what I say, but rather I am reacting to being triggered.
Of course I'm still responsible for my words and actions, but does it reflect my intentions? No. Those words aren't about what I believe.
I find it easier to forgive people for such things as I understand what it's like to say things from a defensive position that aren't how I feel.

I'd suggest anyone that believes they are free to do whatever they wish doesn't actually know and understand the bibles teachings, and therefore do they actually understand salvation itself? To me such people are the seeds that fall on shallow ground, then die off quickly.

From what I've seen the best way to get past being judgmental is to get to know more about the person/people/topic.
You may still disagree, but often times judgment comes from assuming negatives but having little to no facts.
To me the best example of this is when I was a teen. I was into metal and it showed, long hair, chain wallet, combat boots, black band shirts, etc... i was also a leader at my churches youth group.
One parent spotted me and questioned her children about me and was shocked I was a leader. Every week when she picked her kids up she would quiz them about me, since she was Certain I was up to no good. Yet week after week they really had nothing to tell.
One night, after youth, some of the parents were outside chatting and I walked up. This woman singled me out in the conversation quickly.
Over time we talked more and she realized i wasn't a horrible person that was there to corrupt. We became such good friends that I regularly babysat her children and was at her home so much it was like my second home.
She still wasn't a fan of the music, haha, but learned a lesson in judging nonetheless.

Very great point, agree.

But yeah, that is a great story. I just have seen videos of people discussing politics with people on the left or they go to "women rights parades/gay rights parades", so I guess I just assume they are on the left and since the left mostly stands for unholy things. But I am aware of what they say about assuming, "Assume is to make an A** out of u and me", and that's why I try to avoid assuming, but I'm not perfect, that much I know. No I'm not saying that to say it's okay to assume, but the only perfect one was Jesus, and none of us will be perfect, as long as we remain on earth as it is filled with sin. But yeah, I know plenty about the right, but not much on the left, except for that they help programs like planned parenthood and BLM, and are pushing to make college free. Even though there is stuff I have done in the past I don't like, but I see what you mean with the learning angle. Cause I'm trying to take the bad choices, cause I used to be into homosexual porn and regular porn from Japan, to warn people about anime, and to show what TV shows/Movies from anime that okay with watching. Cause I recently re-watched Millennium Actress, and remembered how much of a amazing director Satoshi Kon really is, I think God causes everything to happen for a reason, I truly believe this.

 

[Lanolin]

what is with the big anime.
sorry. Just wondering. Is it meant to symbolise something?

The cats in my avatar are just cats by artist Lesley anne Ivory. Im not obsessed with cats or anything. It just fits in the avatar.

left and right wing doesnt mean unholy or holy. In my country it just means labour vs national. Labour meaning workers and tenants and national usually meaning employers and landowners. You could be a christian and belong to either (or none) most people think both are as bad as each other and equally incompetent. lol

 

[Lanolin]

I dont know much about anime...but I do know that a lot of animation is done in Korea as the colouring is outsourced because its cheaper.

i dont know why you would be into porn though, its actually pretty gross.God has plenty to say about sexual immorality being wrong though but I supoose some people will always argue trying to justify it oh but it creates jobs for people otherwise they would have to go on welfare or some rubbish like that. ?!

I dont think ppl go into it thinking well this is a great art from and people would benefit so much from this porn I am making. Mostly people do it because they are forced to and it makes money, girls would be geishas in the old days as it was one of the few options open to them. sure its seductive but its degrading at the same time.

 

[SarahUmbreon]

I dont know much about anime...but I do know that a lot of animation is done in Korea as the colouring is outsourced because its cheaper.

i dont know why you would be into porn though, its actually pretty gross.God has plenty to say about sexual immorality being wrong though but I supoose some people will always argue trying to justify it oh but it creates jobs for people otherwise they would have to go on welfare or some rubbish like that. ?!

I dont think ppl go into it thinking well this is a great art from and people would benefit so much from this porn I am making. Mostly people do it because they are forced to and it makes money, girls would be geishas in the old days as it was one of the few options open to them. sure its seductive but its degrading at the same time.

I’m NOT into porn anymore, I was before I knew Jesus as my savior. What I was trying to say is that I’ll use my bad past experiences to teach the new generation the horrible effects porn, if it’s homosexual or heterosexual, will have on a person’s life. Cause I will still stand by that getting into was the worst decision. If you even begin to doubt Christianity and think “Why are Christians so mean to gay people?”, that is when Satan will attack and you do stuff you never imagined yourself doing. But not everything related to anime is porn, there are amazing stories, I need to get around to watching everything from Satoshi Kon. Remembered how great of a director he is when I recently re-watched Millennium Actress.

 

[Adstar]

So as I’m chilling at home, I thought about the perfect thing to discuss: Legalism VS License

Anything I say is taken as reference from the Bible study “Romans: Good News that changes everything by Melissa Spoelstra”

So I did this study back in January of this year, and the point of talking about Legalism VS License is that you don’t want one or the other to take over your path as a Christian.

License is the mindset of “Anything goes”, while Legalism is “Follow all the rules”, here is a explanation the author used to describe legalism and why it’s bad:

“Warren Wiersbe defines legalism in his Romans commentary as ‘the belief that I can become holy and please God by obeying laws.

Sounds closer to what is called Works salvation.. The belief that a person MUST do the works to get the pay at the end..

But Gods salvation is a gift and it can only b had by being accepted as a gift..

The Law is good.. It is good not to steal.. it is good not to murder.. It is good not to commit adultery.. People should read the laws and believe it is good and worthy to strive to do.. BUT!!! where they overstep the line is when they declare that people MUST do the Law to be saved or maintain their salvation status with God..

The Law and the Teachings of Jesus make it even clearer that a man must be perfect to justify their own entry into eternity with God and that no human can attain that level of perfection by attempting to do the Law.. So we are left with only One Way to attain salvation and that is by us believing Jesus / LORD.. His standards / Teachings and by trusting that the Atonement He secured on the cross wins for us deemed perfection that will justify our entry into His perfect eternal existence..

Our works, Or attempts to do good to love others and to avoid doing evil may indeed have some effect upon whether we shall be considered greater in the kingdom of God or least in the kingdom of God.. But all our works will play no part ,, Zero,, Zilch in securing or maintaining our salvation..

 

[SarahUmbreon]

what is with the big anime.
sorry. Just wondering. Is it meant to symbolise something?

The cats in my avatar are just cats by artist Lesley anne Ivory. Im not obsessed with cats or anything. It just fits in the avatar.

left and right wing doesnt mean unholy or holy. In my country it just means labour vs national. Labour meaning workers and tenants and national usually meaning employers and landowners. You could be a christian and belong to either (or none) most people think both are as bad as each other and equally incompetent. lol

It was meant to symbolize “trying to learn” because I was responding to a post that a easy way to avoid judging people is to learn about that topic/group/person. So I was trying to relate that with my anime experience, as even though it hasn’t healthy to be into porn, I did learn and can use that knowledge to help people and I have a better understand of Japanese culture, to help prevent people going down the same road I was on, until I found the lord as my savior.

 

[SarahUmbreon]

It was meant to symbolize “trying to learn” because I was responding to a post that a easy way to avoid judging people is to learn about that topic/group/person. So I was trying to relate that with my anime experience, as even though it hasn’t healthy to be into porn, I did learn and can use that knowledge to help people and I have a better understand of Japanese culture, to help prevent people going down the same road I was on, until I found the lord as my savior.

I meant to say “wasn’t” not “hasn’t”, sorry I type too fast >_<

 

[Lanolin]

are you japanese?
just wondering. I think a lot of what people watch is rubbish and sometimes it comes with no warning. For example, american movies, I was watching one yesterday an eighties movie called Heathers. apparently it was a classic comedy about high school. But it was full of people shooting each other, sexual assualt, bullying, and one sociopath trying to blow up the school. all the teenagers get away with it. The parents dont care.

and this was meant to be FUNNY?! some people would call it dark comedy or black humour, but Im like, I dont think thats funny. Not when theres school shootings.

then I watched Bowling for Columbine afterwards and then thought. I cant handle american movies anymore. Its meant to be entertainment. They screw with your mind.

 

[Lanolin]

in the movies its never explained how the kids just happen to have handguns. They just all have them. in american movies, everything seems to be solved by someone shooting someone else, or being blown up or similar.

in gone with the wind when scarlett shoots the yankee even good girl melanie says 'im glad you shot him' and then they go through his pockets to get the money.

 

[SarahUmbreon]

are you japanese?
just wondering. I think a lot of what people watch is rubbish and sometimes it comes with no warning. For example, american movies, I was watching one yesterday an eighties movie called Heathers. apparently it was a classic comedy about high school. But it was full of people shooting each other, sexual assualt, bullying, and one sociopath trying to blow up the school. all the teenagers get away with it. The parents dont care.

and this was meant to be FUNNY?! some people would call it dark comedy or black humour, but Im like, I dont think thats funny. Not when theres school shootings.

then I watched Bowling for Columbine afterwards and then thought. I cant handle american movies anymore. Its meant to be entertainment. They screw with your mind.

No I’m not Japanese, but I like learning and learned a great amount of Japanese culture and anime in general by watching review anime or talk about the culture that can sometimes be found in videogames. I’m definitely American and if you get the chance, you can understand who I am right now by reading my story of how I came to rely on God: https://christianchat.com/testimonies/my-story-of-how-i-came-to-rely-on-god.194434/