Would it be safer to die early in Lord ?

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Fundamental said:
Not sure to be honest. The more I read the Bible the more it concerns me. I felt Jesus hand and from the moment I got touched the biggest problems vanished in an instant.
Yet I am a sinner buying material things I better should not buy, eating things I should not eat etc.



Jesus died and rose again. Jesus conquered the world (by not becoming equal to it) and we can only conquer this world through Him. If you think Jesus took all sins with Him on the cross, take another look in the world. And I somehow believe we are all repsonsible on some level as human enterprise.

If we still like this world we must remember this world killed Jesus.
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Jesus reconciled the whole world by dealing with the ' barrier ' so to speak between man and God . Those like Abraham would have been lost if Jesus had not Died for His sins also . Jesus ,the lamb of God that took away the sins of the world . Thats why he cried out " it is finished " . its done . But if a person does nothing to recieve Jesus this is of no consolation to him .What has God commanded ? That we believe the Gospel. Then he saves us . its that simple. You would reject the gift by trying to do your bit to help Jesus . There's nothing you can do to keep your self saved even if you could . God knows this ,that's why He sent His Son . He died for you , believe it .
 
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throughfaith said:
For those that teach that christians can still go to hell after they are saved . Would it not be better to die before we can later mess it all up ? like the theif on the cross . He had no works to show and no opportunities to fail and when he died we know he was saved .
I believe this reveals a fatal flaw in the theology of those that hold to conditional salvation . We would see a disadvantage for those that live longer . You might say well the longer we live the more 'growth ' and blessings . But this would be a small consolation to an eternity in the lake of fire . This is when we see the inconsistency to this position brought to the surface . which I hope to discuss here .
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The problem is that if we must hold on to what we could never obtain, we will surely slip and lose it.
 
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throughfaith said:
For those that teach that christians can still go to hell after they are saved . Would it not be better to die before we can later mess it all up ? like the theif on the cross . He had no works to show and no opportunities to fail and when he died we know he was saved .
I believe this reveals a fatal flaw in the theology of those that hold to conditional salvation . We would see a disadvantage for those that live longer . You might say well the longer we live the more 'growth ' and blessings . But this would be a small consolation to an eternity in the lake of fire . This is when we see the inconsistency to this position brought to the surface . which I hope to discuss here .
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Just a note. Christians won't go to Hell.

There is no one in Hell at this time by the way.
 
Fundamental said:
Not sure to be honest. The more I read the Bible the more it concerns me. I felt Jesus hand and from the moment I got touched the biggest problems vanished in an instant.
Yet I am a sinner buying material things I better should not buy, eating things I should not eat etc.



Jesus died and rose again. Jesus conquered the world (by not becoming equal to it) and we can only conquer this world through Him. If you think Jesus took all sins with Him on the cross, take another look in the world. And I somehow believe we are all repsonsible on some level as human enterprise.

If we still like this world we must remember this world killed Jesus.
Click to expand...
Jesus reconciled the whole world by dealing with the ' barrier ' so to speak between man and God . Those like Abraham would have been lost if Jesus had not Died for His sins also . Jesus ,the lamb of God that took away the sins of the world . Thats why he cried out " it is finished " . its done . But if a person does nothing to recieve Jesus this is of no consolation to him .What has God commanded ? That we believe the Gospel. Then he saves us . its that simple. You would reject the gift by trying to do your bit to help Jesus . There's nothing you can do to keep your self saved even if you could . God knows this ,that's why He sent His Son . He died for you , believe it .
tourist said:
That is probably an accurate statement to a certain extent as the Holy Spirit who lives inside those that are born-again, comforts and guides in the life-long repentance process. The 'could' part results in stumbles and will result in a conviction of the Holy Spirit that what happened was wrong. Fortunately, God is full of mercy and compassion and is quick to forgive those who desire reconciliation. I believe that Jesus washing the feet of the disciples feet is a reference to this. He said that those that have had a bath (salvation) have a need only to have their feet washed (reconciliation after committing a sin).
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Do you have a verse about the Holy Spirit convicting us of the sins we do ?
Locoponydirtman said:
The problem is that if we must hold on to what we could never obtain, we will surely slip and lose it.
Click to expand...
See that makes no sense ( with respect) The bible is Clear that Jesus did something pretty major on the cross ,which i believe a lot of people are confused about. You say right that we could never attain . That s why it had to be the perfect ,spotless Lamb of God who took away the sins of the world . Do you believe that ?
 
throughfaith said:
See that makes no sense ( with respect) The bible is Clear that Jesus did something pretty major on the cross ,which i believe a lot of people are confused about. You say right that we could never attain . That s why it had to be the perfect ,spotless Lamb of God who took away the sins of the world . Do you believe that ?
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Well, I most certainly do.
 
soggykitten said:
No. God planted the tree of forbidden fruit, didn't stop the serpent from entering Eden, and all due to God being all knowing.
Kind of makes you wonder.
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So likewise, I believe during the Tribulation, a believer will not be stopped by God if he still wants to take the mark of the beast.

God respects free choice, and if a believer refuses to heed the warnings already written clearly for him in Hebrews to Revelations, about the dangers of such a wilful sin, he would have lost his salvation in the end.
 
For me...why would I listen to some man/woman that does not have any more "info" so to speak on the after life and who is and who is not in GODS books aka saved?

If you had no reason to be here.. you would not. God does not make mistakes.
 
Guojing said:
So likewise, I believe during the Tribulation, a believer will not be stopped by God if he still wants to take the mark of the beast.

God respects free choice, and if a believer refuses to heed the warnings already written clearly for him in Hebrews to Revelations, about the dangers of such a wilful sin, he would have lost his salvation in the end.
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But what you're describing isn't what Jesus died for. Salvation is through the gift of God's grace. And if we can lose our salvation or have to worry we're not saved our whole life, then the passage that tells us God's gifts are irrevocable , which would include Salvation, is false.
 
seed_time_harvest said:
I see what you mean,I have to research that but the bible says that those who have been born again cannot sin because they are born of GOD.
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There are a few ways Christians interpret that passage.

The most popular one is to interpret sin there as "persistent" sinning. According to this view, you can sin occasionally but you must keep repenting of that sin, following the famous 1 John 1:9 prescription, and be willing to take effort to resist and stop that sin.

Those who don't confess that sin and take active steps to resist sinning are not really born of God, hence they are not really saved.
 
soggykitten said:
But what you're describing isn't what Jesus died for. Salvation is through the gift of God's grace. And if we can lose our salvation or have to worry we're not saved our whole life, then the passage that tells us God's gifts are irrevocable , which would include Salvation, is false.
Click to expand...

Salvation has always been by God's grace, man don't deserve anything from God.

But salvation has not always been by faith alone in that grace, apart from works (Romans 4:5). Man is only enjoying that now, during this dispensation of grace, because the nation Israel has rejected their Messiah. (Romans 11:11).

By making it so easy for all of us former gentiles to be saved, God is trying to provoke Israel to jealousy for rejecting him, recall how the Sanhedrin was gnashing their teeth at the Holy Spirit, speaking thru Stephen in Acts 7:54-58?

But after the Body of Christ is raptured into heaven, the Tribulation begins once again for the nation Israel, and the doctrine from Hebrews to Revelations will now apply.

Do you realized in those books, salvation is by faith AND works, and never by faith alone apart from works? Everyone knows where that is found in James 2, but it was also written in Hebrews, 1 John, 1 Peter, Jude, and of course Revelations.
 
Guojing said:
Salvation has always been by God's grace, man don't deserve anything from God.

But salvation has not always been by faith alone in that grace, apart from works (Romans 4:5). Man is only enjoying that now, during this dispensation of grace, because the nation Israel has rejected their Messiah. (Romans 11:11).

By making it so easy for all of us former gentiles to be saved, God is trying to provoke Israel to jealousy for rejecting him, recall how the Sanhedrin was gnashing their teeth at the Holy Spirit, speaking thru Stephen in Acts 7:54-58?

But after the Body of Christ is raptured into heaven, the Tribulation begins once again for the nation Israel, and the doctrine from Hebrews to Revelations will now apply.

Do you realized in those books, salvation is by faith AND works, and never by faith alone apart from works? Everyone knows where that is found in James 2, but it was also written in Hebrews, 1 John, 1 Peter, Jude, and of course Revelations.
Click to expand...

Today, faith without works is dead and prior to the Tribulation.
At the judgment when the book of life is opened, every Christian will be judged for their works while holding to the name of Christ.
This is why, if our works, deeds, mean nothing to our salvation as some churches teach, then those churches and their leadership will have to explain that part of Revelation.
 
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