Conspiracy thinker vs trust

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Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,777
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#41
Don't be too committed to your unproven conclusions.
What if proven conclusions are being IGNORED and/or SABOTAGED? The mainstream media do this on a daily basis. And all the public health officials responsible for protecting the nation have actually worked against the health of people.

Have you thoroughly scoured BOTH conservative and liberal news sources to see the baloney coming from the Left to (1) deceive, (2) misinform, (3) disinform, and (4) propagandize the Leftist agenda?

Check out my latest post in the Family Forum on the BOGUS COVID PANDEMIC HOAX.
 

GaryA

Truth, Honesty, Love, Courage
Aug 10, 2019
9,835
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#42
Everyone likes to debate. I like to just have a discussion. My approach and intent is often much different than many others on here...
You could possibly discover that - while having a conversation - having the 'attitude' of discussion - rather than the 'attitude' of debate - will actually help you "prove" your case more effectively.

:coffee: is better than :mad:

Give it a try...

"Prove me wrong..." ;) :)
 

Reborn

Senior Member
Nov 16, 2014
4,087
217
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#43
No, no... Conspiracy theorists often actually deny open source information.

Fyi, from wikipedia "A conspiracy theory is an explanation for an event or situation that invokes a conspiracy by sinister and powerful groups, often political in motivation, when other explanations are more probable. Conspiracy theories resist falsification and are reinforced by circular reasoning: both evidence against the conspiracy and an absence of evidence for it are re-interpreted as evidence of its truth, whereby the conspiracy becomes a matter of faith rather than something that can be proved or disproved. Research suggests that conspiracist ideation—belief in conspiracy theories—can be psychologically harmful or pathological and that it is correlated with psychological projection, paranoia and Machiavellianism."

I'll let you amid that "open source information" weigh in and decide on to whom it applies.
Wikipedia?
Now we have to start the discussion on if/who thinks any source from there is even credible or if it’s automatically thrown out because of how that site works? It’s a blanket statement on all officially labeled conspiracy theories...and a poor one at that. There is no way that can apply to every single theory out there.

You don't see how this all works? Work with me, here?
The “truth” about anything/topic is left up to the individual researching it. It becomes their truth even if it’s not thee truth. Sure, there is a real and final truth to it, but unless we are there to witness or can recreate it/event in a lab...which is impossible....than we all just have to be content that our sources are reliable on anything that has happened before film...and now even film can be manipulated. Who can tell anyone that their research is faulty? This is how life, religion, politics all work. Truth mixed with lies and opinions.

Someone says ”Bigfoot shot JFK” , the counter says “that’s lame, prove it”
Well, you can’t....so they trust the source.

Someone says “the Sun is a bazillion miles away” the counter says “um, that’s lame, prove it”
Well, you can’t ....so they trust the source.

(maybe someone out there (who is completely sane) would say both sound ludicrous)

Extreme examples, (done on purpose) we can apply it to most topics/events we haven’t witnessed or can prove with words. Many junk conspiracy theories out there, but no one can say they ALL are lies. Many “facts” about the world around us that scream obvious lies, but no one can say they are ALL lies. Now...Wouldn’t you say it’s incredibly narrow minded to say ALL conspiracy theories are lies?
Takes some faith to trust any source. So l ask again who dictates “a credible source” who gets to label anything a “conspiracy“ in a world full of a billion videos, blogs, sites and articles all with different takes on truth? (I’m pretty sure the Bible never gave us a list?)
 

GaryA

Truth, Honesty, Love, Courage
Aug 10, 2019
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#44
I’m simply stating those who oppose and push that “all conspiracy theories are bad/wrong“ with a “steer clear from it“ type attitude towards anyone seeking out answers is not only giving terrible advice but it is incredibly deceptive. (towards others and themselves) Imagine a world where no labels were given and we were allowed to read and study without being told how to feel about it (the articles title) before we even read the first line?
Yes - this kind of 'tactic' is glaringly obvious and invokes instant suspicion of the motive behind it.
 

GaryA

Truth, Honesty, Love, Courage
Aug 10, 2019
9,835
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#45
Wikipedia is a joke when it comes to real truth. The only thing it is actually good for is - when you want to know "what the prevailing opinion is" on a topic.
 
Aug 19, 2020
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#46
Wikipedia?
Now we have to start the discussion on if/who thinks any source from there is even credible or if it’s automatically thrown out because of how that site works?
Umm, have you ever been to wikipedia? Do you even know how it works?
 

Reborn

Senior Member
Nov 16, 2014
4,087
217
63
#47
Yes - this kind of 'tactic' is glaringly obvious and invokes instant suspicion of the motive behind it.
It’s sad isn’t it? 😢

How many times have you seen a headline/article/thread title, etc with wording like this...

“(Color of the man/ with a law enforcement job) with a unregistered gun belonging to DJT loving conspiracy theory group, shoots disabled (color of the victim here) man, screams “God made me do it!!”

(Made up headline...but not too far off from a news team approach)

Where do l begin? Really? (If l can hide 8 subliminals in my made up headline example above, imagine what they do?) Right away, One should ask why they bother to add the color of the victim/perp in the first place? Why focus on his job? Unregistered/is this about gun control? The Prez (they all hate) so look at his followers? A Conspiracy Group? They may even take a jab at Christians at the end just to seal it.

Many, many headlines are this bold and crammed with selected/opinionated wording...yet?, a conspiracy theorist is nutso for gobbling up “deceptive” articles out there?!?

They drop in subliminals and knowingly use misleading words/phrases to instantly make a person feel or think a certain way. We all fall for it. It apparently works and isn’t even illegal.
Cmon, do your job as a journalist, present facts, little opinion and let the reader form their own ideas and thoughts about the issue at hand.

Terrible. 😔
 

Reborn

Senior Member
Nov 16, 2014
4,087
217
63
#48
Umm, have you ever been to wikipedia? Do you even know how it works?
Yup. Sure do.
Ive actually added to many of them, and they never take any of it down. Surprised me too. They may clean it up, but l guess they are cool with the tidbits l add? Who knows, maybe ill go clean up the “Conspiracy Theory” Wiki page?🤔

My point is many people think Wikipedia is far from reliable simply because anyone can add or take from it. Or they dictate what is acceptable. Ya know, lots of people like to be told by a “professional “ or someone who went to ten colleges on what is the truth. 😢

(I actually added a huge chunk to a certain Smallville actresses Wiki page a month before she was arrested. What are the odds)
 
Jun 22, 2020
1,231
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Australia
#50
But what if you are wrong? Would you then stubbornly and belligerently hold fast to your irrational and illogical error because you promised yourself that you would never relent? Standing in the truth should include a willingness to concede to being wrong so that you can realign with said truth you claim to love. Don't be too committed to your unproven conclusions. You might be wrong about it.
If im wrong then so be it... Until then i will watch on with a degree of skepticism...;)
 

Reborn

Senior Member
Nov 16, 2014
4,087
217
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#51
What is sad is that so many people fall for it instead of seeing it for what it really is... :(
Both. All. Everything about it.

Its sad that people don’t encourage others to research. They push a form of truth yet get upset when others decide to look deeper? They basically shoot from the hip and slam out opinions on subjects they know little or nothing about...yup, they think it’s ignorant to believe certain things they are (by definition) ignorant on? What?

When others don’t give in, they proceed to insult them, calling them names all the while (some) proclaiming to be children of God? How does that work? (Sure, children of God is between them and Him) but one thing is for sure...insulting those who don’t follow along with the herd and chow down on the slop they feed us is on the level of a child. They even encourage others to jump in and tease the kids who are different than them.

Just like in elementary school.

Wait? Bullies make fun of the ones that do their work...never realizing that one day they may have to cheat off their test just so they can get by. Funny how that works out.
 
S

Scribe

Guest
#52
It’s sad isn’t it? 😢

How many times have you seen a headline/article/thread title, etc with wording like this...

“(Color of the man/ with a law enforcement job) with a unregistered gun belonging to DJT loving conspiracy theory group, shoots disabled (color of the victim here) man, screams “God made me do it!!”

(Made up headline...but not too far off from a news team approach)

Where do l begin? Really? (If l can hide 8 subliminals in my made up headline example above, imagine what they do?) Right away, One should ask why they bother to add the color of the victim/perp in the first place? Why focus on his job? Unregistered/is this about gun control? The Prez (they all hate) so look at his followers? A Conspiracy Group? They may even take a jab at Christians at the end just to seal it.

Many, many headlines are this bold and crammed with selected/opinionated wording...yet?, a conspiracy theorist is nutso for gobbling up “deceptive” articles out there?!?

They drop in subliminals and knowingly use misleading words/phrases to instantly make a person feel or think a certain way. We all fall for it. It apparently works and isn’t even illegal.
Cmon, do your job as a journalist, present facts, little opinion and let the reader form their own ideas and thoughts about the issue at hand.

Terrible. 😔
I think it is obvious that if you want to read anything about Trump turned into a negative you visit CNN. If you want a positive spin you visit FOX. If you want the truth you have to spend time reading more information if you can find it. Most news stories are not in depth enough to present you with all the information to form an opinion. News stories are not my idea of a credible source.

For example you may have a seen a story today saying that the CDC says cloth masks work better than N95 and kids going back to school should use cloth. Well, that is not exactly what the CDC is saying. You have to research a bit to find out why they are showing graphic charts which suggest cloth masks for kids going back to school and stating that they work better than N95 is not what the CDC said but this will be repeated over and over again as an example of how the CDC keeps changing their minds. People put their own spin on a graphic that the CDC put out where the N95 was crossed out as not recommended.
 

Reborn

Senior Member
Nov 16, 2014
4,087
217
63
#53
I think it is obvious that if you want to read anything about Trump turned into a negative you visit CNN. If you want a positive spin you visit FOX. If you want the truth you have to spend time reading more information if you can find it. Most news stories are not in depth enough to present you with all the information to form an opinion. News stories are not my idea of a credible source.

For example you may have a seen a story today saying that the CDC says cloth masks work better than N95 and kids going back to school should use cloth. Well, that is not exactly what the CDC is saying. You have to research a bit to find out why they are showing graphic charts which suggest cloth masks for kids going back to school and stating that they work better than N95 is not what the CDC said but this will be repeated over and over again as an example of how the CDC keeps changing their minds. People put their own spin on a graphic that the CDC put out where the N95 was crossed out as not recommended.
Sums up how l feel on researching overall.
I agree with you, Sir, we all have to dig a little deeper to uncover facts on something. Labels and headlines can be very misleading, and all l ever push is “do your homework” We have hit a time in history where we have to trust our gut. Trust in God will give us that feeling that what we found is the truth. No one can step in for what He can only give. Inner peace. Agreed?

l do have a few questions? You don’t believe the system as of 2020, as a whole, is set up to confuse people? Both sides and not just the Dems? If we look at Trump as a President (and his proven accomplishments) while in office he has mostly done what he promised. (leaving all personal opinions of him aside and leaving out the mans personal life and past). He was pretty awesome. If we judge him on his job, and people truly look into it, do you think the news has been fair to him? Or is it an obvious power move to destroy all he’s done and push him out? Not a single famous person supports him? (That doesn’t have their career then destroyed)

But these last 6 months? Idk how to view or defend him” The way he’s handle this pandemic? He uses Fauci, then they both push different opinions and stats? (Confusing) Every state makes their own rules that make little or no sense to their neighboring states? (Confusing) He never wears a mask and claims its fake ...then says to wear one? (Confusing) Unemployment thru the roof, he claims we are doing well as a nation?(Confusing) He hands out money like Willy Wonka free candy and there are many sitting on their butts making much more than what they did while employed? (Confusing) Why would they want to get back to work? We figured that someone collecting checks now makes in 6 months what would normally take them a yr to match? He’s okay with that? (Confusing) Small businesses are flopping by the thousands and he’s focused on beating Biden?

Many other examples, but no need to list anymore.

Who and how should we trust any source of news now?
If he is helping the confusion (Maybe unintentionally) who do we look to for a way out of this mess?
 
S

Scribe

Guest
#54
Sums up how l feel on researching overall.
I agree with you, Sir, we all have to dig a little deeper to uncover facts on something. Labels and headlines can be very misleading, and all l ever push is “do your homework” We have hit a time in history where we have to trust our gut. Trust in God will give us that feeling that what we found is the truth. No one can step in for what He can only give. Inner peace. Agreed?

l do have a few questions? You don’t believe the system as of 2020, as a whole, is set up to confuse people? Both sides and not just the Dems? If we look at Trump as a President (and his proven accomplishments) while in office he has mostly done what he promised. (leaving all personal opinions of him aside and leaving out the mans personal life and past). He was pretty awesome. If we judge him on his job, and people truly look into it, do you think the news has been fair to him? Or is it an obvious power move to destroy all he’s done and push him out? Not a single famous person supports him? (That doesn’t have their career then destroyed)

But these last 6 months? Idk how to view or defend him” The way he’s handle this pandemic? He uses Fauci, then they both push different opinions and stats? (Confusing) Every state makes their own rules that make little or no sense to their neighboring states? (Confusing) He never wears a mask and claims its fake ...then says to wear one? (Confusing) Unemployment thru the roof, he claims we are doing well as a nation?(Confusing) He hands out money like Willy Wonka free candy and there are many sitting on their butts making much more than what they did while employed? (Confusing) Why would they want to get back to work? We figured that someone collecting checks now makes in 6 months what would normally take them a yr to match? He’s okay with that? (Confusing) Small businesses are flopping by the thousands and he’s focused on beating Biden?

Many other examples, but no need to list anymore.

Who and how should we trust any source of news now?
If he is helping the confusion (Maybe unintentionally) who do we look to for a way out of this mess?
He is just a president. He does not have the ability to fix everything. Things are more complicated than we like to think. COVID is real and we are navigating waters we have not navigated before. Trump purposely pushes peoples buttons that only makes them hate him more. Traditionally that has never been the best way to win friends and influence people. LOL.
 
F

Fundamental

Guest
#55
There is also the question of...
"how does the conspiracy theorist regaining the trust of friends once their theories have been debunked and yet they continue to cleave to them with an almost religious fanaticism? How will they ever be considered mentally normal by their family and friends again? Will they always wear the mental ward frock in the eyes of their peers?"

There is a way to recover their reputation for being of a sound mind and judgment.

I don't think it is a matter of trusting a system but rather...
"how does one find credible source materials to educate themselves on unbiased facts" That is not hard to do and will set one on the right path to extract themselves from a previously committed position that might not be the truth.

Why trust cheesy videos anyone can produce in an attempt to sway people and not believe data published in scientific journals?
Is there a lack of understanding on how scientific journals get published? Maybe by looking into the requirements for the peer reviews and fact checking that goes into that type of publication would give one confidence that it has much more weight than an individual in a video whether he is wearing a lab coat and has medical credentials or not.

When you take the time to fact check using fact check sites that will uncover data you might not have known and give links for credible sources to add to your current knowledge you can consider all of the data instead of what you thought was so glaringly obvious based only on your intuitive natural suspicions and skepticism (not a credible source).

This will at least give a better perspective of why your normal friends and family are thinking that your not dealing with a full deck (because they already searched and know the fact check data) So you owe it to yourself to at least learn what the fact checking sites are saying. If you want to still believe the debunked false accusation you will be expected to give a persuasive argument as to why the fact checking sites are wrong. This would give you some level of credibility showing you have done the basic research necessary to have a valid opinion and then people will be less likely to dress you in that mental ward frock.

Most people who are honestly wanting the truth will not reject a superior resource such as a New England Medical Journal publication and choose instead to believe a fat transvestite in a blond wig talking into a webcam on a video posted on youtube.

If they do they can still recover their reputation for being sane if they simply change their minds and tell their friends they were wrong and they have learned how to look up credible resources and use fact checking sites instead of getting caught up in all the conspiracy theories on the internet. This will make their family and friends very happy and no one will think they are crazy.
Just don't be too proud to admit you went overboard but have learned from it.

It is very common for conspiracy theorist to not believe their own theories but be too proud to admit it to those they have told it to in the past. They feel they have to keep up a facade of belief to save their credibility but that does not actually work. The only way recover their credibility is to admit they got caught up in a sensational theory without first properly fact checking and since then they have changed their minds. Their friends will sigh in relief and trust them even more for their intellectual honesty. :)

There is a way out.. it is called intellectual honesty. And it is not that hard and it is freedom and a clear conscience. God desires truth in the inward parts and that means being truthful to ourselves as well as others. We can't fool God, He knows what we really think and He knows when we secretly doubt the integrity of a social media post we are sharing but do it anyway, and He knows that you felt that check from Him not to do it and that you did it anyway. And He is waiting for you to repent and quit it. And you will not grow in your relationship with Him until you repent of that and start taking what you communicate to others much more seriously. Truth in the inward parts. As a man thinks in his heart so is he.
Says the man who denies the facts... Factcheck: TV has constantly lied while conspiracy theorists were constantly right.
Our governments are collaboarting with fascists regimes again. Even against their own people now with the lies around corona. Not one worldleader has demanded compensation of China for putting the world into a pandemic. China knew it from march last year but we only locked down after Chinese new year.

And now we are going to have to take their vaccin to get our liberties back which were stripped over a night. Because of a fascist communist regime China, even persecuting Christians now and putting them on trains with other minorities. Just like Hitler did.
 
F

Fundamental

Guest
#56
I know what you mean, brother. The way-of-the-world tends to force us into more-and-more complex and difficult decisions. Yet - if we "hold fast" to the Truth - and, trust that God will help us make all of the right decisions -- well, that is the best we can do.

I applaud you for trying to do whatever good you are trying to do. Doing nothing is what most people do. They have been conditioned from birth to "just go along with the world" so as to be 'comfortable'. Understandably, people often do not know what to do. However, being educated in/on the truth is the responsibility of everyone who would like to not be counted in the group of "good men" who "do nothing" - referred to by this saying:

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke

Choose your battles according to what you believe you may actually be able to make a positive difference. And, of course, anything that you feel God has put upon you to do.

Among Christians everywhere, it is the lack of knowledge, understanding, and wisdom - and the lack of having the will to get involved to make a positive difference [in the things where we can make that difference] that keeps evil tracking forward. We all know that we cannot stand alone - yet, it seems that no one wants to stand together, either...

That last sentence --- most Christians today don't have a clue just how prevalent that it really is. And, that is sad. :(
It’s quite alright to deal with other opinions and truths until they want to stick a needle in my arm making few richer and us sicker.

There are conspiracies and they were conspiring for a nwo before I was even born. People don’t choose politicly for a globalism aka nwo so they must lie and deceive us to get their way. They dumbed my generation down, but looking at the textbooks of my kids made me see how much worse it became.

In Europe they are not teaching our kids about islam but they are simply teaching islam. Our kids visit mosques more then churches these days. All the junk they buy is made in China and made with poisonous inkt. Jobs disappear because we can’t compete with childlabor which is slavery.

If we don’t educate them with truth, who will? They even linked our democratic parties to the nazi and bring our kids to museums to show what will happen when conservatives rise to power. Proud as I was when kids started to address Palestines were the biggest partner of Hitler against Jews, while asking why governments are funding them.

They will never have us choose for their system so they have invented climate change. When that hoax was exposed they started to hide behind girls name Greta. When that was exposed we suddenly get corona and nobody is talking about the climate anymore.

All they do is lie and deceive. They kiss fascist butss while they are burning down our churches and poisoning our kids.
Notre Dam was also lit on fire, but nobody dares to say it out loud anymore because people within our own societies have teamed up with their governments marginalizing their own people for thinking differently.
 

ev4989

Active member
Apr 17, 2020
357
96
28
#57
It’s quite alright to deal with other opinions and truths until they want to stick a needle in my arm making few richer and us sicker.

There are conspiracies and they were conspiring for a nwo before I was even born. People don’t choose politicly for a globalism aka nwo so they must lie and deceive us to get their way. They dumbed my generation down, but looking at the textbooks of my kids made me see how much worse it became.

In Europe they are not teaching our kids about islam but they are simply teaching islam. Our kids visit mosques more then churches these days. All the junk they buy is made in China and made with poisonous inkt. Jobs disappear because we can’t compete with childlabor which is slavery.

If we don’t educate them with truth, who will? They even linked our democratic parties to the nazi and bring our kids to museums to show what will happen when conservatives rise to power. Proud as I was when kids started to address Palestines were the biggest partner of Hitler against Jews, while asking why governments are funding them.

They will never have us choose for their system so they have invented climate change. When that hoax was exposed they started to hide behind girls name Greta. When that was exposed we suddenly get corona and nobody is talking about the climate anymore.

All they do is lie and deceive. They kiss fascist butss while they are burning down our churches and poisoning our kids.
Notre Dam was also lit on fire, but nobody dares to say it out loud anymore because people within our own societies have teamed up with their governments marginalizing their own people for thinking differently.
What you say and your truths are only going on in your head brother. You need help.
 
F

Fundamental

Guest
#58
What you say and your truths are only going on in your head brother. You need help.
Wish it was ev. Of course I’m not absolute and still am a learning human being, but many of the problems I am addressing are actual and real problems of today. Maybe it needs to be re-looked at, but somethings can’t be sugarcoated and are what they are.

I don’t watch the news and do not engage on social media. This hypocrisy of “political correctness” is making us lose eye with “historical correctness”. I can’t stand watching those lies any longer.

Having had the help needed, we quickly came to the conclusion that given the right time: conspiracy thinkers are too often right to still believe offical stories. People rather question concerned citizens then systems and politicians having lied to us from birth on.
 
Jun 22, 2020
1,231
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113
Australia
#59
But what if you are wrong? Would you then stubbornly and belligerently hold fast to your irrational and illogical error because you promised yourself that you would never relent? Standing in the truth should include a willingness to concede to being wrong so that you can realign with said truth you claim to love. Don't be too committed to your unproven conclusions. You might be wrong about it.
Howdy. Im responding to an old post cos iv been thinking about that and decided to define what that would mean for me. A line in the sand. I would be wrong if...

- The vaccine is offered without any mandates, blackmails, bribes or extortion or certification.
- The world goes back to normal... No social distancing, no masks, no tracing apps, no daily covid tallies, no new pandemic, no new norms, no change... No more covid fears...

If those two parameters are met then I'll know that my skepticism was wrong...

Now I'm going to ask u to do the same thing. Where is your line in the sand? What would it take for u to say u were wrong?

I'm not doing this to see who is right or wrong I'm doing it to hold ourself's accountable to the truth and not become entrenched in deception...
 
S

Scribe

Guest
#60
Howdy. Im responding to an old post cos iv been thinking about that and decided to define what that would mean for me. A line in the sand. I would be wrong if...

- The vaccine is offered without any mandates, blackmails, bribes or extortion or certification.
- The world goes back to normal... No social distancing, no masks, no tracing apps, no daily covid tallies, no new pandemic, no new norms, no change... No more covid fears...

If those two parameters are met then I'll know that my skepticism was wrong...

Now I'm going to ask u to do the same thing. Where is your line in the sand? What would it take for u to say u were wrong?

I'm not doing this to see who is right or wrong I'm doing it to hold ourself's accountable to the truth and not become entrenched in deception...
At this point I do not for see a law being passed that would force a vaccine on anyone. If they do, I would be wrong about that. I don't know what you are asking. I simply try to reserve judgment without evidence and I am not persuaded by illogical conspiracy theories. Emotional hype and the outrage of people does not move me. For example at this point I see no reason to believe that Bill Gates is not sincerely interested in helping save lives worldwide by funding the development of vaccines. I am not painting him a christian or having any knowledge of what that means, he is probably a humanist theologically based on things he has said. I do not think he has any secret world domination plans or parties with those who do. I could be wrong but I think it is sinful to accuse him of the things that I have heard people say using the wacky evidence they present. If he turns out to be a satan worshipping, illuminati, half borg, from the dark side of the moon, I will admit I was wrong. :)