What 3 verses say that a lost man cannot believe the gospel?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
May 31, 2020
1,706
1,559
113
First, pull verses out to of context to fit the dogma,

Second, change word meanings, twist, embellish and deny the plain reading of scripture to support the created dogma so it looks like it harmonizes,

Then, make it sound like a systematic theology that appeals to the intellect and the hard hearted

......but it is far from the truth.
You mean to say that world in John 3:16 actually means world, and not some diametrically opposed algorithm embraced by pharisaic eliminators of grace? :eek:
 
May 31, 2020
1,706
1,559
113
thanks, this is the good part :)

we've got X X -- the lost becomes found! Adam is taken from the ground where he was made and placed in the garden - why not created in the garden? why not walk there himself? how far away was he made? why did he have to be placed?

how does X become 'not X' ?
there's some function applied G(X) = Y, and we're not talking about X anymore, we're talking about Y
X, by Theorem John 3:18, is condemned. not saved. by definition, because X does not believe
it is Y, who believes, that is saved.


X is the preimage of Y, and G transforms X, mapping it to Y

View attachment 220634

if Y believes, X is no more -- Y is a new creation, effected by G

so what is G?
how does G act on X?
does G originate with X?
is G 1:1? is G onto? does an inverse G' exist?
X is given the opportunity to believe but chooses not to believe.
 
May 31, 2020
1,706
1,559
113
Intellectualism does not equate intelligence, hence the beauty regarding the simplicity of Jesus Christ.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,835
13,558
113
Romans 1 says otherwise. I would stick with the word
Matthew 11:27 / Luke 10:22 say what FGC said. So there's a difference in what Paul means about everyone knowing the plainly evident things of Gods existence and what Christ says about no one knowing God except who He chooses to reveal Himself to.
 
May 31, 2020
1,706
1,559
113
Matthew 11:27 / Luke 10:22 say what FGC said. So there's a difference in what Paul means about everyone knowing the plainly evident things of Gods existence and what Christ said about no one knowing God except who He chooses to reveal Himself to.
Matthew 11:28-30 shows Jesus Christ offering an open invitation to everyone. 😉
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,835
13,558
113
Incorrect we have X = X

A lost man can hear the gospel and respond, believing what he heard is truth .. and God will give him eternal life
You're not following.
The unbelieving do not believe.
The unbelieving are condemned.
The believing believe.
The believing are saved.

The unbelieving are not the believing. X is not Y.

To become believing there must be a transformation G(X) = Y
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Matthew 11:27 / Luke 10:22 say what FGC said. So there's a difference in what Paul means about everyone knowing the plainly evident things of Gods existence and what Christ says about no one knowing God except who He chooses to reveal Himself to.
Romans 1 says although the knew god...
sorry bro FGC is in error
there is no such thing as a true atheist
 
May 19, 2020
3,050
1,275
113
You're not following.
The unbelieving do not believe.
The unbelieving are condemned.
The believing believe.
The believing are saved.

The unbelieving are not the believing. X is not Y.

To become believing there must be a transformation G(X) = Y

How can anyone believe before they are saved?....God saves us,which brings us to believe....how else can we believe,how can we bring ourselves to believe?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,835
13,558
113
Romans 1 says although the knew god...
sorry bro FGC is in error
there is no such thing as a true atheist

I agree no one has an excuse for atheism :)
But awareness of His existence and qualities is not the same as knowing Him - He says to know Him is eternal life.

How does He say this?

Jeremiah 4:22
" For My people [are] foolish, They have not known Me. They [are] silly children, And they have no understanding. They [are] wise to do evil, But to do good they have no knowledge."
 
May 19, 2020
3,050
1,275
113
X is given the opportunity to believe but chooses not to believe.

Before I became born again.....I remember seeing a lot of bible books in the vicar house,I worked in,he preach to me a lot.......how could I believe,without God drawing me to him and opening up my heart,to receive him....God brought me to salvation in his timing.....that’s my belief.

When God saves you,you know it in your spirit,there is no doubt whatsoever.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
The believing believe.
The believing come to belief by hearing the message of the Gospel and responding, they enter through the narrow gate, God does not drag them through.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
You mean to say that world in John 3:16 actually means world, and not some diametrically opposed algorithm embraced by pharisaic eliminators of grace? :eek:
I for the life of me cannot wrap my head around why anyone who would want to fashion God into this anti biblical design.

They seek to deny what God gave each man, the ability to be persuaded and respond to the Gospel call, so that even the angels in heaven rejoice.

Likewise, I say to you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Luke15:10

Yet they state they cannot boast because God does it all and gives them an advantage.. sure that makes sense.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,835
13,558
113
How can anyone believe before they are saved?....God saves us,which brings us to believe....how else can we believe,how can we bring ourselves to believe?
All i know is He opened my eyes and my heart. It wasn't me.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
I agree no one has an excuse for atheism :)
But awareness of His existence and qualities is not the same as knowing Him - He says to know Him is eternal life.

How does He say this?

Jeremiah 4:22
" For My people [are] foolish, They have not known Me. They [are] silly children, And they have no understanding. They [are] wise to do evil, But to do good they have no knowledge."
They still have no excuse.

Romans 1:18–22 (NKJV): For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools

they know god they just refuse to acknowledge him hence why they have no excuse because if you continue. It also says they understand the penalty of sin
 
Jul 6, 2020
905
328
63
So man can 'redeem 'himself through works ?
Man can lay hold of redemption in Christ Jesus by the works of faith.
just like Abraham did in the beginning as our example and was declared righteous as a result of his works in faith.
 
Jul 6, 2020
905
328
63
All i know is He opened my eyes and my heart. It wasn't me.
That is true, He shows us our blindness and need of Him so we are then free to choose.
He presents us/confronts us with the choice.
"Choose this day whom you will serve"

Just like we are to preach the Gospel and function in that same capacity of presenting people with the choice so they can know they have have been given a choice in Jesus and choose for themselves.