What 3 verses say that a lost man cannot believe the gospel?
- Thread starter throughfaith
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Mind if i translate?
I believe he is saying
Reason can NOT lay hold of the salvation in Christ Jesus.
In fact trying to do so turns your reason into your God.
Neither can you by your reasoning know or become intelligent about God.
The reason of man is totally inadequate for that job.
Just the simple faith of a child is required to turn on the lights and to experience and know.
After that reason becomes enlightened with understanding because you already know God empirically.
My fancy word or the day is:
empirically
[əmˈpiriklē]
ADVERB
I believe he is saying
Reason can NOT lay hold of the salvation in Christ Jesus.
In fact trying to do so turns your reason into your God.
Neither can you by your reasoning know or become intelligent about God.
The reason of man is totally inadequate for that job.
Just the simple faith of a child is required to turn on the lights and to experience and know.
After that reason becomes enlightened with understanding because you already know God empirically.
My fancy word or the day is:
empirically
[əmˈpiriklē]
ADVERB
- by means of observation or experience rather than theory or pure logic.
Hebrews 5:9 - and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him
Romans 16:26 - But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
True faith is in obedience.
To obey faith and lay hold of the source of our eternal salvation.
That being the life of Christ Jesus being alive in us.
Through faith:
Believing -> obeying -> eternal salvation
Hebrews 12:13-15 -Make straight paths for your feet, so that the lame may not be debilitated, but rather healed.
Pursue peace with all men, as well as holiness, without which no one will see the Lord. (Some times whispers are louder.)
Be careful that no one falls short of the grace of God...
Hmm...
So how is it that one can fall short of Grace???
Something to consider.
Romans 16:26 - But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
True faith is in obedience.
To obey faith and lay hold of the source of our eternal salvation.
That being the life of Christ Jesus being alive in us.
Through faith:
Believing -> obeying -> eternal salvation
Hebrews 12:13-15 -Make straight paths for your feet, so that the lame may not be debilitated, but rather healed.
Pursue peace with all men, as well as holiness, without which no one will see the Lord. (Some times whispers are louder.)
Be careful that no one falls short of the grace of God...
Hmm...
So how is it that one can fall short of Grace???
Something to consider.
For since the creation of the world God’s invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse ~ Romans 1:20
Human beings are innately aware of God’s existence. Some are either too angry, arrogant or both to acknowledge Him.
Human beings are innately aware of God’s existence. Some are either too angry, arrogant or both to acknowledge Him.
-
3
-
2
-
2
- Show all
I’m glad the Spirit convicted you so earnestly but sadly many people have been shared the grace of God yet live a life of despair because of what they’re organized religion has pounded into them ~ negativity.
They have proclaimed faith in Jesus Christ and with that they are saved yet unfortunately they don’t know how to rejoice.
They have proclaimed faith in Jesus Christ and with that they are saved yet unfortunately they don’t know how to rejoice.
-
1
-
1
- Show all
I hear you....I just don’t understand how a true believer who has been saved by Christ ,can live a life of despair,knowing in their heart that he saved them.
How can anyone take away from a believer,what God gave them.
I truly don’t understand it.....
Dusky,how can being pounded with negativity,take your faith away?
If it came from God?
I would say they confess with there mouths His lordship over there lives and with more then just lip service.
Many just proclaim it but without submitting themselves to it and suffer from the lie that they are saved by simply "proclaiming faith" as if that is confessing Him as Lord (AKA accepting Him as lord, AKA obeying him as lord).
There is error on both sides of the narrow path.
Many just proclaim it but without submitting themselves to it and suffer from the lie that they are saved by simply "proclaiming faith" as if that is confessing Him as Lord (AKA accepting Him as lord, AKA obeying him as lord).
There is error on both sides of the narrow path.
L
so scripture states that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us
we were all unbelievers at one point so were we all actually believers if we have/had no choice and grace is irresistible as some claim?
or are unbelievers those who have made a choice, since God is righteous and not willing that any should perish surely He provided some way for that 'choice' to happen, and having done so, remain in that state?
this may be more of a philosophical question. I can grasp what I am thinking of better than I am asking it I think
we can see scripture as a 'little tricky' with references to both choosing and foreordaining, therefore, if X is not Y, then Y becomes or already is 'Z'? I think that the elements of salvation are not left entirely up to God. He says 'choose' from one end of the Bible to the other
so?
-
2
- Show all
L
but scripture state let those who have ears to hear, hear
it does not state let hearing be induced
if blindness comes, it is basically a judgment it would seem. read the following. God did not create blindness and deafness in these people and if it happens today, it is for the same reasons
10Then the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Why do You speak to the people in parables?”
11He replied, “The knowledge of the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. 12Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. 13This is why I speak to them in parables:
‘Though seeing, they do not see;
though hearing, they do not hear or understand.’b
14In them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled:
‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
15For this people’s heart has grown callous;
they hardly hear with their ears,
and they have closed their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts,
and turn, and I would heal them.’c
16But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear. 17For truly I tell you, many prophets and righteous men longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.
it seems Jesus is saying He spoke in parables because they should have already know the truth but their hearts had grown callous and they had closed their eyes and that is a process
we should not ignore such explanations and just think 'oh well that's Jesus for you' because He was known for parables. IMO, the reason for those parables was put the truth right before their eyes ... but eyes that had closed, not by the will of God, but by hearts grown callous
-
2
- Show all
Because they believe lies that enslave them keeping them from the fullness of salvation.
Taught to believe those lies are godly and anyone who denies those lies are either unsaved or do not have the truth in them.
So they stay enslaved to there sins as a result perhaps even until they die.
It is a very hard thing to unlearn things that are the foundations of your faith
Even if they are in fact man made.
The tithe for example, is a function of law, comes with a curse, is only about what grows in your garden and if your cat has kittens you should put one in the offering plate. or was it just sheep and goats?
Seriously the point is it has become pounded in as if denying the tithe was denying the faith itself.
It has become a sacred cash cow, that has no place in the life of a believer nor is ever found in the NT Church teaching or practices. The teaching of it in fact "Robs God" of un-obligated cheerful givers and robs the givers of benefiting directly from being involved in meeting the needs of one another.
But few can accept it because daring to challenge the lie openly can get you thrown out of your fellowship.
it is that much more important then the fellowship of the saints for those who love its false fruits.
But Gods way is one of real provision but it rests on faith.
Leaders would have to put there faith in God that God would support what God would put in peoples hearts to support.
Giving by the way, does not stop at 10% but as long as you convince people to subject themselves to the law of the tithe you put them under a curse if they fail at any point. No one will see blessing in the work of Giving and the true needs of your fellowship will continue to be unmet.
IMHO
But judge for yourselves.
Taught to believe those lies are godly and anyone who denies those lies are either unsaved or do not have the truth in them.
So they stay enslaved to there sins as a result perhaps even until they die.
It is a very hard thing to unlearn things that are the foundations of your faith
Even if they are in fact man made.
The tithe for example, is a function of law, comes with a curse, is only about what grows in your garden and if your cat has kittens you should put one in the offering plate. or was it just sheep and goats?
Seriously the point is it has become pounded in as if denying the tithe was denying the faith itself.
It has become a sacred cash cow, that has no place in the life of a believer nor is ever found in the NT Church teaching or practices. The teaching of it in fact "Robs God" of un-obligated cheerful givers and robs the givers of benefiting directly from being involved in meeting the needs of one another.
But few can accept it because daring to challenge the lie openly can get you thrown out of your fellowship.
it is that much more important then the fellowship of the saints for those who love its false fruits.
But Gods way is one of real provision but it rests on faith.
Leaders would have to put there faith in God that God would support what God would put in peoples hearts to support.
Giving by the way, does not stop at 10% but as long as you convince people to subject themselves to the law of the tithe you put them under a curse if they fail at any point. No one will see blessing in the work of Giving and the true needs of your fellowship will continue to be unmet.
IMHO
But judge for yourselves.
For if, when we were enemies'... at that point, when we were enemies,
none of us were seeking God -
as it is written:
There is none that understands, there is none that seek after God.
For if, when we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of His Son',
at the 'reconciliation', we 'become-believers', we have NO choice...
11COR. 5:18.
And all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself by Jesus Christ,
and has given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
19.
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself,
not imputing their trespasses unto them; and has committed unto us The Word of reconciliation.
as it is written:
JOHN 6:44.
No man can come to Me, except The Father which has sent Me draw him:
and I will raise him up at the 'last day'.
none of us were seeking God -
as it is written:
There is none that understands, there is none that seek after God.
For if, when we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of His Son',
at the 'reconciliation', we 'become-believers', we have NO choice...
11COR. 5:18.
And all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself by Jesus Christ,
and has given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
19.
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself,
not imputing their trespasses unto them; and has committed unto us The Word of reconciliation.
as it is written:
JOHN 6:44.
No man can come to Me, except The Father which has sent Me draw him:
and I will raise him up at the 'last day'.
L
I really do not see how the conclusion that we have no choice is somehow obvious because we are reconciled to God
how does reconciliation account for impossible to reject? we can't have so many rejecting on one hand and then think it is impossible to reject what is offered because of regeneration occurring before acceptance (which boggles the mind but anyway)
for me, it's a quantum leap to conclude we have no choice if we accept Christ because that is what you are saying in other words, it does not compute that I can see...and please do not state I will see it, because I am not recently saved, nor do I think God is playing hide and seek with me with regards to revelation of Himself to my spirit
yes, but does that say not everyone is drawn? reads more like I am here, raised on a cross (as scripture states if I be lifted up I will draw what? only the regenerated? only predetermined individuals?
NO..ALL men (and people since men in biblical understanding is all people)
see it. it's right there in black and white.
right. since not everyone is saved, even though Christ was offered to THE WORLD, then it makes no sense to say we have no choice
how does reconciliation account for impossible to reject? we can't have so many rejecting on one hand and then think it is impossible to reject what is offered because of regeneration occurring before acceptance (which boggles the mind but anyway)
for me, it's a quantum leap to conclude we have no choice if we accept Christ because that is what you are saying in other words, it does not compute that I can see...and please do not state I will see it, because I am not recently saved, nor do I think God is playing hide and seek with me with regards to revelation of Himself to my spirit
yes, but does that say not everyone is drawn? reads more like I am here, raised on a cross (as scripture states if I be lifted up I will draw what? only the regenerated? only predetermined individuals?
NO..ALL men (and people since men in biblical understanding is all people)
see it. it's right there in black and white.
right. since not everyone is saved, even though Christ was offered to THE WORLD, then it makes no sense to say we have no choice
-
1
-
1
- Show all
That is the true gospel.
A faith that works.
An obedience to faith.
Has nothing to do with law.
Abraham and the obedience of faith is our example and father of what we embrace.
It all precedes the law of Moses, so it has nothing to do with the works of the law.
Seriously AS IF obeying faith is rejecting Christs lordship and rejecting the obedience of faith is the way to lay hold of the salvation that is in Christ Jesus.
A faith that works.
An obedience to faith.
Has nothing to do with law.
Abraham and the obedience of faith is our example and father of what we embrace.
It all precedes the law of Moses, so it has nothing to do with the works of the law.
Seriously AS IF obeying faith is rejecting Christs lordship and rejecting the obedience of faith is the way to lay hold of the salvation that is in Christ Jesus.
-
1
- Show all