The Sealed Church Will Go Through The Future Tribulation, Divinely Protected By God!

[Blain]

I don't think that the entire church is what the seal is talking about. Note that the number of people sealed is specifically 144,000 this seal is not an ordinary kind of seal it appears to have a profound sigmificamce to it. If the church and bride of Christ was the sealed then that would mean only a number of that 133000 are saved world wide and that is actually a very very low number considering the entire church and many say how mosy Christians aren't really Christians and liken the wheat and the chaff in reference to this however I find it nearly impossible that with the gospel being spread worldwide in many methods including youtube the internet and live broadcasts that only a small percentage of the calculated number of people in the world by statistics done in this month of 7.8 billion people

However there is another thing to consider and that is of course the actual rapture of the church itself the bride of Christ the people brought into the fold through the blood of Jesus. Now I understand this contradicts the mid and post trib belief but my reason for mentioning it is not simply because I believe in it.
We are called the bride of Christ we are told how the marriage of the lamb is but whaty we are not told is the tribulation the bride goes through in order for the marriage. The bride even in Jewish customs was to wait and watch nothing else they are not to go to and fro because if a bride to be was to leave the awaited place the groom chose to meet that was a sign that the marriage was not to be it was a very sacred and kind of strict ruled custom

I do not disagree however that the sealed will be here in the tribulation protected by God I have even personally seen it ina several different dreams however I also believe the wedding is to be first those who are sealed are in Christ and thus his bride so they too will be attending the wedding and feast of the lamb but some are called out to further serve afterwards. I said on here several years ago how God is creating an army of his children who love and adore him with a deep and fiery passion how these children will one day recieve his power and spirit in an endless amount far exceeding the apostles in pentecost, I had no idea why I sauid it at that time but I believe these 144,000 are this chosen people.

If in fact i am correct about that though I know many say it is the Jews who are saved during the tribulation then I would say personally I think that time is much closer than people think.For instance the feast of trumpets now
I personally am not sure what to believe on this but many believe that this feast of trumpets is the ra;pture and the start of the tribulation. I do think there is a lot of evidence to support this theory however. Jesus stated no one would know the day or hour this to many is used to say you cannot know when the rapture is but this isn't what Jesus was talking about. The feast of trumpets if you didn't know is called the wandering holiday you do not know for sure what day it is or what hour it starts because the jewish calander is based on a different lunar cycle that what we gentiles use in fact the new year for them officially begins on the last trump of thyis feast of trumpets for us gentiles it is still 2020 but for them it is now 2021

the number 20 biblacally and prophecally represents the cycles of completeness. a perfect period of waiting, labor or suffering that is compared to a trial and reward the number 21 represents the dealing of sin and rebellion of man against God Note also that there are other numbers that are important to note the number 7 and 8 seven being the obvious perfect and holy number but 8 being the number of revival new life and new spiritual birth and also of ascension and just for an intersting note as of september this year it is now my 8th year of salvation. However I have already made so long a post and I have a lot of information that I have learned and studied in bible prophecy but I will have to make an actual thread for all of that.

Back to the main point of the sealed though again I do not disagree with where they will be in the tribulation rather who they are and what their actual purpose ios in that time period

 

[Truth7t7]

I don't think that the entire church is what the seal is talking about. Note that the number of people sealed is specifically 144,000 this seal is not an ordinary kind of seal it appears to have a profound sigmificamce to it. If the church and bride of Christ was the sealed then that would mean only a number of that 133000 are saved world wide and that is actually a very very low number considering the entire church and many say how mosy Christians aren't really Christians and liken the wheat and the chaff in reference to this however I find it nearly impossible that with the gospel being spread worldwide in many methods including youtube the internet and live broadcasts that only a small percentage of the calculated number of people in the world by statistics done in this month of 7.8 billion people

However there is another thing to consider and that is of course the actual rapture of the church itself the bride of Christ the people brought into the fold through the blood of Jesus. Now I understand this contradicts the mid and post trib belief but my reason for mentioning it is not simply because I believe in it.
We are called the bride of Christ we are told how the marriage of the lamb is but whaty we are not told is the tribulation the bride goes through in order for the marriage. The bride even in Jewish customs was to wait and watch nothing else they are not to go to and fro because if a bride to be was to leave the awaited place the groom chose to meet that was a sign that the marriage was not to be it was a very sacred and kind of strict ruled custom

I do not disagree however that the sealed will be here in the tribulation protected by God I have even personally seen it ina several different dreams however I also believe the wedding is to be first those who are sealed are in Christ and thus his bride so they too will be attending the wedding and feast of the lamb but some are called out to further serve afterwards. I said on here several years ago how God is creating an army of his children who love and adore him with a deep and fiery passion how these children will one day recieve his power and spirit in an endless amount far exceeding the apostles in pentecost, I had no idea why I sauid it at that time but I believe these 144,000 are this chosen people.

If in fact i am correct about that though I know many say it is the Jews who are saved during the tribulation then I would say personally I think that time is much closer than people think.For instance the feast of trumpets now
I personally am not sure what to believe on this but many believe that this feast of trumpets is the ra;pture and the start of the tribulation. I do think there is a lot of evidence to support this theory however. Jesus stated no one would know the day or hour this to many is used to say you cannot know when the rapture is but this isn't what Jesus was talking about. The feast of trumpets if you didn't know is called the wandering holiday you do not know for sure what day it is or what hour it starts because the jewish calander is based on a different lunar cycle that what we gentiles use in fact the new year for them officially begins on the last trump of thyis feast of trumpets for us gentiles it is still 2020 but for them it is now 2021

the number 20 biblacally and prophecally represents the cycles of completeness. a perfect period of waiting, labor or suffering that is compared to a trial and reward the number 21 represents the dealing of sin and rebellion of man against God Note also that there are other numbers that are important to note the number 7 and 8 seven being the obvious perfect and holy number but 8 being the number of revival new life and new spiritual birth and also of ascension and just for an intersting note as of september this year it is now my 8th year of salvation. However I have already made so long a post and I have a lot of information that I have learned and studied in bible prophecy but I will have to make an actual thread for all of that.

Back to the main point of the sealed though again I do not disagree with where they will be in the tribulation rather who they are and what their actual purpose ios in that time period

You claim the seal of God upon the 144,000 is different than the seal upon the church, your claim is false.

You claim there will be a future pre-trib rapture, this is also false.

The Church will be present on earth during the tribulation, the 144,000 will be saved, sealed, and added to this church.

The tribulation will be controlled by the (Two Witnesses) bringing all plagues as often as they will, a remake of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt

Just as the Hebrews were protected from the plagues, the church present on earth will be protected.

 

[crossnote]

There is no pre-trib rapture, a false teaching.

A denial of a matter, proves nothing.

The Remnant Jew That Is Predestined And Chosen, Will Be Saved And Added To The Church

True, but what about the Jews who now deny Jesus. (Ans Rom 11).
Or are Gentiles 'naturally more favored by God, seeing the Church today is mainly comprised of them?

The Church Is The Israel Of God.

That is misinterpreting Galatians 6:16
And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.
(Gal 6:16)
It is speaking both of the believing Gentiles and believing Jews. (notice the 'and'). It wouldn't make sense to say the Church is the 'Israel of God'...then who is being referred to in the phrase...'as many as walk according to this rule'?

 

[Truth7t7]

A denial of a matter, proves nothing.

True, but what about the Jews who now deny Jesus. (Ans Rom 11).
Or are Gentiles 'naturally more favored by God, seeing the Church today is mainly comprised of them?

That is misinterpreting Galatians 6:16
And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.
(Gal 6:16)
It is speaking both of the believing Gentiles and believing Jews. (notice the 'and'). It wouldn't make sense to say the Church is the 'Israel of God'...then who is being referred to in the phrase...'as many as walk according to this rule'?

Romans 9:6-8 below can't be any simpler, plain and clear, read it again and again

(Two Israel's) are seen below:

1.) Israel Of The Flesh, Ethnic Jews

2.) Israel The Church, children of the promised seed.

(They Which Are The Children Of The Flesh, These Are Not The Children Of God)

We Will Disagree, No Further Response On Israel The Church, Children Of The Promised Seed.

(Dispensationalism's Dual Covenant Theology Is A False Teaching)

Romans 9:6-8KJV
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

 

[Blain]

You claim the seal of God upon the 144,000 is different than the seal upon the church, your claim is false.

You claim there will be a future pre-trib rapture, this is also false.

The Church will be present on earth during the tribulation, the 144,000 will be saved, sealed, and added to this church.

The tribulation will be controlled by the (Two Witnesses) bringing all plagues as often as they will, a remake of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt

Just as the Hebrews were protected from the plagues, the church present on earth will be protected.

Simply because you disagree does not make it false if interpretation and different evidence is presented that does not prove or disprove either side rather they are odds and thus not concluded. The seal I am talking about is not spoken about the church it is only spoken of the 144,000 and this is a specific number becaused it is spoken of in the book of revelation but this is also in the tribulation period when in the rest of the bible the church is mentioned to be sealed by and in Christ but not in accordance or referenced with jacobs trouble only in Christ and in his grace love and salvation.

As far as the rapture goes yes I do believe a pretrib rapture is most likely and honestly do hope for it but I also am not one to set aside the evidence and possibility of a mid or post one either in fact if possible I want to serve in the tribulation. You say my claim is false but honestly it takes more than scripture alone to understand bible prophecy scripture is easily misinterpretated and by our own perception and beliefs, I do not simply study the scriptures I study the Jews and their customs ways of doing things ways of speaking traditions ect. I study the use and meaning of numbers in the bible and how and why God uses them I study the constelations and the biblical and prophetic meaning and sym,bolism of them and I study the events of history and how they amazingly line up with every prophecy ever spoken in the bioble.

I am not by any means an expert but you must understand if you desire to know and understand bible prophecy it is the meat of meats in scripture and you have to go have a true passion and hunger for it youhave to dive very deep into it and not saimply with scripture alone it takes dedication and though the hpoly spirit is mainly the reason people say why they believe things the confusion and division in these matters is evidently not the case and so we must dig deeper and by many methods because after all God used many methods all throughout scripture

 

[Truth7t7]

Simply because you disagree does not make it false if interpretation and different evidence is presented that does not prove or disprove either side rather they are odds and thus not concluded. The seal I am talking about is not spoken about the church it is only spoken of the 144,000 and this is a specific number becaused it is spoken of in the book of revelation but this is also in the tribulation period when in the rest of the bible the church is mentioned to be sealed by and in Christ but not in accordance or referenced with jacobs trouble only in Christ and in his grace love and salvation.

As far as the rapture goes yes I do believe a pretrib rapture is most likely and honestly do hope for it but I also am not one to set aside the evidence and possibility of a mid or post one either in fact if possible I want to serve in the tribulation. You say my claim is false but honestly it takes more than scripture alone to understand bible prophecy scripture is easily misinterpretated and by our own perception and beliefs, I do not simply study the scriptures I study the Jews and their customs ways of doing things ways of speaking traditions ect. I study the use and meaning of numbers in the bible and how and why God uses them I study the constelations and the biblical and prophetic meaning and sym,bolism of them and I study the events of history and how they amazingly line up with every prophecy ever spoken in the bioble.

I am not by any means an expert but you must understand if you desire to know and understand bible prophecy it is the meat of meats in scripture and you have to go have a true passion and hunger for it youhave to dive very deep into it and not saimply with scripture alone it takes dedication and though the hpoly spirit is mainly the reason people say why they believe things the confusion and division in these matters is evidently not the case and so we must dig deeper and by many methods because after all God used many methods all throughout scripture

Jesus Christ himself taught the church was going to be present on earth during the tribulation, as Luke 21:8-35 below clearly teaches. A world event, as the (Church) is instructed to look up, their redemption draws nigh.

Nation rise against nation

Jerusalem surrounded by armies

World earthquakes, and famine

Men's hearts failing, watching the events unfold

The second coming of Jesus Christ

Luke 21:8-35KJV
8 And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.
9 But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by.
10 Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:
11 And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.
12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.
13 And it shall turn to you for a testimony.
14 Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:
15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.
16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.
17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.
18 But there shall not an hair of your head perish.
19 In your patience possess ye your souls.
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
29 And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;
30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.
31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.
33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.
35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.

 

[Truth7t7]

Simply because you disagree does not make it false if interpretation and different evidence is presented that does not prove or disprove either side rather they are odds and thus not concluded. The seal I am talking about is not spoken about the church it is only spoken of the 144,000 and this is a specific number becaused it is spoken of in the book of revelation but this is also in the tribulation period when in the rest of the bible the church is mentioned to be sealed by and in Christ but not in accordance or referenced with jacobs trouble only in Christ and in his grace love and salvation.

As far as the rapture goes yes I do believe a pretrib rapture is most likely and honestly do hope for it but I also am not one to set aside the evidence and possibility of a mid or post one either in fact if possible I want to serve in the tribulation. You say my claim is false but honestly it takes more than scripture alone to understand bible prophecy scripture is easily misinterpretated and by our own perception and beliefs, I do not simply study the scriptures I study the Jews and their customs ways of doing things ways of speaking traditions ect. I study the use and meaning of numbers in the bible and how and why God uses them I study the constelations and the biblical and prophetic meaning and sym,bolism of them and I study the events of history and how they amazingly line up with every prophecy ever spoken in the bioble.

I am not by any means an expert but you must understand if you desire to know and understand bible prophecy it is the meat of meats in scripture and you have to go have a true passion and hunger for it youhave to dive very deep into it and not saimply with scripture alone it takes dedication and though the hpoly spirit is mainly the reason people say why they believe things the confusion and division in these matters is evidently not the case and so we must dig deeper and by many methods because after all God used many methods all throughout scripture

You continue to suggest the seal received by the 144,000 is different than the seal all Christian's receive, your claim is empty opinion in speculation.

It is my opinion the 144,000 are saved by Jesus Christ, sealed and added to the church as all Christian's have.

 

[soggykitten]

The bad news is: It’s gonna hurt a lot...

Not necessarily. Revelation chapters 11, 14, and 20.
Revelation 7:14 I answered, "Sir, you know." And he said, "These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Romans 11:25-26
Zechariah 12:10-14

 

[Truth7t7]

Not necessarily. Revelation chapters 11, 14, and 20.
Revelation 7:14 I answered, "Sir, you know." And he said, "These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Romans 11:25-26
Zechariah 12:10-14

The Two Witnesses Seen Below Will Be Representing (Jesus Christ) On Earth, It Will Be A Remake Of Moses/Aaron Against Pharaoh Of Egypt.

The Plagues Seen In Revelation Will Be Brought Upon The Antichrist And His Kingdom Followers By These Two Witnesses.

Many Poster (Falsely Teach) The Antichrist Will Be In Control, What A Misrepresentation Of Truth That Is!

5 Months, Torture So Bad You Desire To Die, And You Can't Die?

Jesus Is In Control, Moses/Aaron In Egypt, Ain't Got Nothing On The Future Two Witnesses!

Revelation 11:3-6KJV
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

Revelation 14:6-12KJV
6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Revelation 9:3-6KJV
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

 

[Blain]

You continue to suggest the seal received by the 144,000 is different than the seal all Christian's receive, your claim is empty opinion in speculation.

It is my opinion the 144,000 are saved by Jesus Christ, sealed and added to the church as all Christian's have.

Yes Jesus said what was to come but do you also remember when he was saying these things and to whom? This was before the church itself was established before his crucification and ressurection he was not speaking to the gentiles in this time he was speaking to the Jews. Yes all he said would happen will happen and has been happening but he also mentioned the parable of the fig tree, do you know what the fig tree represents in scripture?
The fig tree was used specifically because it was a telling of Israel, in every thing having to do with bible prophecy who is always the one people who are involved? who is the one people who countlessly rebelled and eventually brought back to him? who is it now that everyone says does not know Christ and are living once again in their traditions without an actual relationship with God? Israel. The second Israel returned to their land in 1948 this generation he spoke of began and the 144,000 isn't the church itself rather it is the Jews, again you have to take into context the people he was speaking to the traditions sayings and ways of the jewish people

My concern isn't about the timing of the rapture whether pre mid or post my concern is having our hearts prepared because trust me things may be bad now but just like birth pains it is going to get worse and worse
Think about it the temple is already being built the peace treaty with israel has beenm made something that has never in history been acomplished and Jesus also said that when you see all these things look up for your redemption draws near.
We are sealed by the blood of the lamb just as the doors were sealed with the blood of a lamb in Egypt when the plauges struck every first born without the seal the bible is close to 69% prophecy not all of it having to do with future events but all of it having to do with God's plan of salvation bringing all people jews and gentiles alike into the promised land but if we ignore the signs and follow our own views and beliefs instead of actually studying and diving deep into bible prophecy it is easy to misinterpret and not see what is happening right in front of us.

The three wisemen were the only ones who knew of Jesus birth only three men in the entire world not because they were just wise but because they knew the signs to look for they didn't believe what others said or thought rather they studied and meditated the scriptures and were ready when he arrived.

The seal of the 144,000 isn't for the gentiles it never was it has always revolved around Israel the beloved but rebellious children and especially with bible prophecy we cannot view it as we are accustomed to doing if you look through the eyes of the jews when ypou read it when you understand their customs it begins to be much more clear and that is why so many misunderstand the scriptures because we are seeing it through our eyes
Scripture alone will not be enough anybmore there is far to much confusion and division far to much arguing and interpretation far to much of our own beleifs and views this was the enemies design to divide and conquer he causes mass confusion.

Tell me how far are you willing to go to find the truth of a matter? all I have said so far including some of the things I study all have to do with the bible it is written all over it but how many actually sturdy and research it? how many are so amazed at bible prophecy that they actually go through the events of history or study the constelations the meaning and p[urpose of how and why God used numbers to begin with and the customs and ways of the Jews?

We can debate all we want about who is right and wrong about such matters but as you have surely seen scripture no longer changes a heart or mind when presented how many times have we all gone to and fro all over the forum posting and (proving) our points of views with verses and scriptures and how many times has it actually changed a heart?
We who call ourselves Christians speak of love yet attack and mock and tear each other down simply because of a difference in understanding and interpretation, we who claiom to be love show anything but that and the world knows it.

This is why I have studied bible prophecy for myself not just because of my fascination of it but because it really annoyed me the vast confusion surrounding it and how people just argue about it all. can ytou honestly tell me that anything good will come from your original post? Can you honestly tell me you have done the research with an open mind and heart not holding or clinging to your own views and understanding? Can you honestly tell me for a fact that this was holy spirit inspired?

It is easy to post scripture and why we believe what we do and claim others are false but as far as I have seen none of this has ever brought people closer to God, no one has been inspired to seek him no spark no fire no wind of the spirit no love or heart being touched or healed only arguing as far as I can tell without the fruits of the spirit what good is any of this?

 

[Truth7t7]

Yes Jesus said what was to come but do you also remember when he was saying these things and to whom? This was before the church itself was established before his crucification and ressurection he was not speaking to the gentiles in this time he was speaking to the Jews. Yes all he said would happen will happen and has been happening but he also mentioned the parable of the fig tree, do you know what the fig tree represents in scripture?
The fig tree was used specifically because it was a telling of Israel, in every thing having to do with bible prophecy who is always the one people who are involved? who is the one people who countlessly rebelled and eventually brought back to him? who is it now that everyone says does not know Christ and are living once again in their traditions without an actual relationship with God? Israel. The second Israel returned to their land in 1948 this generation he spoke of began and the 144,000 isn't the church itself rather it is the Jews, again you have to take into context the people he was speaking to the traditions sayings and ways of the jewish people

My concern isn't about the timing of the rapture whether pre mid or post my concern is having our hearts prepared because trust me things may be bad now but just like birth pains it is going to get worse and worse
Think about it the temple is already being built the peace treaty with israel has beenm made something that has never in history been acomplished and Jesus also said that when you see all these things look up for your redemption draws near.
We are sealed by the blood of the lamb just as the doors were sealed with the blood of a lamb in Egypt when the plauges struck every first born without the seal the bible is close to 69% prophecy not all of it having to do with future events but all of it having to do with God's plan of salvation bringing all people jews and gentiles alike into the promised land but if we ignore the signs and follow our own views and beliefs instead of actually studying and diving deep into bible prophecy it is easy to misinterpret and not see what is happening right in front of us.

The three wisemen were the only ones who knew of Jesus birth only three men in the entire world not because they were just wise but because they knew the signs to look for they didn't believe what others said or thought rather they studied and meditated the scriptures and were ready when he arrived.

The seal of the 144,000 isn't for the gentiles it never was it has always revolved around Israel the beloved but rebellious children and especially with bible prophecy we cannot view it as we are accustomed to doing if you look through the eyes of the jews when ypou read it when you understand their customs it begins to be much more clear and that is why so many misunderstand the scriptures because we are seeing it through our eyes
Scripture alone will not be enough anybmore there is far to much confusion and division far to much arguing and interpretation far to much of our own beleifs and views this was the enemies design to divide and conquer he causes mass confusion.

Tell me how far are you willing to go to find the truth of a matter? all I have said so far including some of the things I study all have to do with the bible it is written all over it but how many actually sturdy and research it? how many are so amazed at bible prophecy that they actually go through the events of history or study the constelations the meaning and p[urpose of how and why God used numbers to begin with and the customs and ways of the Jews?

We can debate all we want about who is right and wrong about such matters but as you have surely seen scripture no longer changes a heart or mind when presented how many times have we all gone to and fro all over the forum posting and (proving) our points of views with verses and scriptures and how many times has it actually changed a heart?
We who call ourselves Christians speak of love yet attack and mock and tear each other down simply because of a difference in understanding and interpretation, we who claiom to be love show anything but that and the world knows it.

This is why I have studied bible prophecy for myself not just because of my fascination of it but because it really annoyed me the vast confusion surrounding it and how people just argue about it all. can ytou honestly tell me that anything good will come from your original post? Can you honestly tell me you have done the research with an open mind and heart not holding or clinging to your own views and understanding? Can you honestly tell me for a fact that this was holy spirit inspired?

It is easy to post scripture and why we believe what we do and claim others are false but as far as I have seen none of this has ever brought people closer to God, no one has been inspired to seek him no spark no fire no wind of the spirit no love or heart being touched or healed only arguing as far as I can tell without the fruits of the spirit what good is any of this?

The 144,000 represent the remnant Jews, predestined and chosen, added to the church, just as all believers are.

You have some preconceived bias that God has some different plan of salvation for Jews, he dosent, they are saved by the blood on the cross of Calvary, they are sealed by the same Holy Spirit as all believers are.

Your gave total Disregard to my post of Luke 21:8-35, I will post it again.

Jesus Christ himself taught the church was going to be present on earth during the tribulation, as Luke 21:8-35 below clearly teaches. A world event, as the (Church) is instructed to look up, their redemption draws nigh.

Nation rise against nation

Jerusalem surrounded by armies

World earthquakes, and famine

Men's hearts failing, watching the events unfold

The second coming of Jesus Christ

Luke 21:8-35KJV
8 And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.
9 But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by.
10 Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:
11 And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.
12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.
13 And it shall turn to you for a testimony.
14 Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:
15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.
16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.
17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.
18 But there shall not an hair of your head perish.
19 In your patience possess ye your souls.
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
29 And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;
30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.
31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.
33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.
35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.

 

[Blain]

The 144,000 represent the remnant Jews, predestined and chosen, added to the church, just as all believers are.

You have some preconceived bias that God has some different plan of salvation for Jews, he dosent, they are saved by the blood on the cross of Calvary, they are sealed by the same Holy Spirit as all believers are.

Your gave total Disregard to my post of Luke 21:8-35, I will post it again.

Jesus Christ himself taught the church was going to be present on earth during the tribulation, as Luke 21:8-35 below clearly teaches. A world event, as the (Church) is instructed to look up, their redemption draws nigh.

Nation rise against nation

Jerusalem surrounded by armies

World earthquakes, and famine

Men's hearts failing, watching the events unfold

The second coming of Jesus Christ

Luke 21:8-35KJV
8 And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.
9 But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by.
10 Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:
11 And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.
12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.
13 And it shall turn to you for a testimony.
14 Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:
15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.
16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.
17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.
18 But there shall not an hair of your head perish.
19 In your patience possess ye your souls.
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
29 And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;
30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.
31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.
33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.
35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.

Yes it does represent the remnant jews but and yes they are saved by the cross and by the blood of Jesus but no I didn't disregard the verse you posted I already said that he said these things would happen and that they are happening and will only get worse from here.
God has a plan of salvation for both jews and gentiles but the way he deals with us is not the same he has always held the Jews both in high regard and also to more standards a curse is given to anyone who stands against Israel he didn't say that about the church because he doesn't just have a plan of salvation for the Jews but a plan also to bring all under the same blood. If the 144,000 is the church then we have failed as believers haven't we? Thast is a horribly small number of those who are actually saved.
Again as I have said bible prophecy is the meat of meats it is not something you can think of as a single layer in understanding and interpretation.

it is the glory of God to conceal a matter but the glory of kings to search out a matter. We are brought into his kingdom as the jews yes but his plan and methods are not the same with these two people, they never have been he never held the gentiles to the rules and customs the jews followed and even then they were not meant to be a stone they would stumble over they were meant to show and reveal who Christ is what he would and what would be brought forth in the process and they were blind to it because they didn't see or understand

Again I ask you how far are you willing to go to find the truth? and again I ask why is it that only three men in the entire world knew the sign of the Lords birth? If you truly believe you understand the scriptures and then test it, not argue or debate it but test it against the scriptures. The best way to find out the truth of your own beliefs is to purpoisely try to prove it wrong if no evidence is found against it then the scriptures do not break it then you can sure about it but if not done in earnest with an open mind and heart throwing away everything you thought you knew then it does no good.

Instead of trying to prove your views and beliefs study it and study the other points that seemingly go against it, you sharpen a blade against another blade do you not?

 

[Truth7t7]

Yes it does represent the remnant jews but and yes they are saved by the cross and by the blood of Jesus but no I didn't disregard the verse you posted I already said that he said these things would happen and that they are happening and will only get worse from here.
God has a plan of salvation for both jews and gentiles but the way he deals with us is not the same he has always held the Jews both in high regard and also to more standards a curse is given to anyone who stands against Israel he didn't say that about the church because he doesn't just have a plan of salvation for the Jews but a plan also to bring all under the same blood. If the 144,000 is the church then we have failed as believers haven't we? Thast is a horribly small number of those who are actually saved.
Again as I have said bible prophecy is the meat of meats it is not something you can think of as a single layer in understanding and interpretation.

it is the glory of God to conceal a matter but the glory of kings to search out a matter. We are brought into his kingdom as the jews yes but his plan and methods are not the same with these two people, they never have been he never held the gentiles to the rules and customs the jews followed and even then they were not meant to be a stone they would stumble over they were meant to show and reveal who Christ is what he would and what would be brought forth in the process and they were blind to it because they didn't see or understand

Again I ask you how far are you willing to go to find the truth? and again I ask why is it that only three men in the entire world knew the sign of the Lords birth? If you truly believe you understand the scriptures and then test it, not argue or debate it but test it against the scriptures. The best way to find out the truth of your own beliefs is to purpoisely try to prove it wrong if no evidence is found against it then the scriptures do not break it then you can sure about it but if not done in earnest with an open mind and heart throwing away everything you thought you knew then it does no good.

Instead of trying to prove your views and beliefs study it and study the other points that seemingly go against it, you sharpen a blade against another blade do you not?

We will disagree, the 144,000 are saved during the tribulation and added to the church present on earth

The horse is dead, it's all yours.

 

[soggykitten]

Yes it does represent the remnant jews but and yes they are saved by the cross and by the blood of Jesus but no I didn't disregard the verse you posted I already said that he said these things would happen and that they are happening and will only get worse from here.
God has a plan of salvation for both jews and gentiles but the way he deals with us is not the same he has always held the Jews both in high regard and also to more standards a curse is given to anyone who stands against Israel he didn't say that about the church because he doesn't just have a plan of salvation for the Jews but a plan also to bring all under the same blood. If the 144,000 is the church then we have failed as believers haven't we? Thast is a horribly small number of those who are actually saved.
Again as I have said bible prophecy is the meat of meats it is not something you can think of as a single layer in understanding and interpretation.

it is the glory of God to conceal a matter but the glory of kings to search out a matter. We are brought into his kingdom as the jews yes but his plan and methods are not the same with these two people, they never have been he never held the gentiles to the rules and customs the jews followed and even then they were not meant to be a stone they would stumble over they were meant to show and reveal who Christ is what he would and what would be brought forth in the process and they were blind to it because they didn't see or understand

Again I ask you how far are you willing to go to find the truth? and again I ask why is it that only three men in the entire world knew the sign of the Lords birth? If you truly believe you understand the scriptures and then test it, not argue or debate it but test it against the scriptures. The best way to find out the truth of your own beliefs is to purpoisely try to prove it wrong if no evidence is found against it then the scriptures do not break it then you can sure about it but if not done in earnest with an open mind and heart throwing away everything you thought you knew then it does no good.

Instead of trying to prove your views and beliefs study it and study the other points that seemingly go against it, you sharpen a blade against another blade do you not?

I don't think the Tetragrammaton in Judaism can be overlooked in this matter.

Twelve tribes, 12,000 per tribe, 144,000

Revelation 21

 

[crossnote]

Romans 9:6-8 below can't be any simpler, plain and clear, read it again and again

(Two Israel's) are seen below:

1.) Israel Of The Flesh, Ethnic Jews

2.) Israel The Church, children of the promised seed.

(They Which Are The Children Of The Flesh, These Are Not The Children Of God)

We Will Disagree, No Further Response On Israel The Church, Children Of The Promised Seed.

(Dispensationalism's Dual Covenant Theology Is A False Teaching)

Romans 9:6-8KJV
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

So you could not address my response to Gal 6:16 so you pull out another talking point found in Rom 9:6-8.
Sigh, so from vss 1-5 he establishes the fact that he is referring mainly to unbelieving Israel after the flesh..
Then Paul makes a distinction between natural unbelieving Israel and natural believing Israel. Those that are Israel but unbelieving are not the children of God. That's all Paul is saying in vs 8.
There is no mention of the Church in that whole chapter. That is simply something you are reading into the text.
No one has brought up Dual Covenant Theology except you.
All men are saved through the shed blood of Jesus Christ.
I'm sorry you carry a preconceived abhorrence to Dispensational Theology, but all it boils down to is a literal approach to Scripture which leads to a conclusion that God is not finished with His people Israel yet and that the Church is not Israel.

 

[Blain]

We will disagree, the 144,000 are saved during the tribulation and added to the church present on earth

The horse is dead, it's all yours.

The point I was trying to make wasn about the kind of seal given not about the timing of the rapture I think we agree about the 144,000 being saved during the tribulation but perhaps as to who it is and what the purpose of the them is might be the place we part ways and so yes I agree we can agree to disagree.
I do apologize if I was disrespectful in any way as that was not my intent I can be a bit passionate sometimes

 

[Absolutely]

You continue to suggest the seal received by the 144,000 is different than the seal all Christian's receive, your claim is empty opinion in speculation.

It is my opinion the 144,000 are saved by Jesus Christ, sealed and added to the church as all Christian's have.

If it is exactly the same there would be no need to frame it as a necessary outward mark that the flying scorpions see and avoid the 144k.

You are trying to make a point that it can "only be" the exact same thing as being INWARDLY MARKED at salvation.

Nope
You need it to be the same thing.
It obviously is not.

In fact you are,by reframing it, proving that the pretrib rapture has happened and there is no need to say "the 144k as well as a billion Christian's running from cave to cave "

It is obvious that the scorpions sting those not OUTWARDLY sealed.....and ONLY the 144k are marked outwardly to avoid the scorpions.

Oh,and btw, the 144k are SAVED and therefore ALREADY HAVE the inward mark or seal of the Holy Spirit.

That idea of it being the same should go in the debunked pile

 

[Absolutely]

The 144,000 represent the remnant Jews, predestined and chosen, added to the church, just as all believers are.

You have some preconceived bias that God has some different plan of salvation for Jews, he dosent, they are saved by the blood on the cross of Calvary, they are sealed by the same Holy Spirit as all believers are.

Your gave total Disregard to my post of Luke 21:8-35, I will post it again.

Jesus Christ himself taught the church was going to be present on earth during the tribulation, as Luke 21:8-35 below clearly teaches. A world event, as the (Church) is instructed to look up, their redemption draws nigh.

Nation rise against nation

Jerusalem surrounded by armies

World earthquakes, and famine

Men's hearts failing, watching the events unfold

The second coming of Jesus Christ

Luke 21:8-35KJV
8 And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.
9 But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by.
10 Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:
11 And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.
12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.
13 And it shall turn to you for a testimony.
14 Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:
15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.
16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.
17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.
18 But there shall not an hair of your head perish.
19 In your patience possess ye your souls.
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
29 And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;
30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.
31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.
33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.
35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the

18 But there shall not an hair of your head perish.

Lol

A number no man can number standing before the throne KILLED by the devil man DURING THE GT. And yet you keep insisting those verses are absent.
It even tells you "every man woman and child receives the mark"
Face it,you either die or take the mark in the gt.

Not only that but all the disciples/apostles were murdered and some tortured by the devil.

Pssssst....the bible is not a mental book....nor one dimensional.

The rapture is pretrib
The second coming postrib.

Postrib is EASILY DEBUNKED.

The only traction for postrib rapture is to omit and reframe verses.

That only works in postrib circles

18 But there shall not an hair of your head perish.

 

[Absolutely]

18 But there shall not an hair of your head perish.

Lol
All the apostles were murdered by the devil.
So were /are those refusing the mark

Billions murdered

You are omitting verses to make it APPEAR we go through the gt under supernatural protection.

Totally totally false.

 

[Chester]

Chester the danger is when a person with a pre-determined bias uses (One Verse) out of context to build false doctrine, the cults are prime examples of this

Example: Dispensationalism claims 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17 is a Pre-Trib rapture, then a 7 year tribulation on earth follows?

This teaching is false, (One Verse) out of context, because we clearly see in using the (Full Counsel) of God's word, that the event seen is nothing more than the (Second Coming) and (Last Day) resurrection of the believer.

(The Last Day Resurrection)

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

(The Last Day Resurrection)

1 Thessalonians 4:14-17KJV
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

LOL! You just exactly illustrated the point I was trying to make.

You take I Thessalonians 4:14-17 and say that it cannot mean what it says because "we clearly see in using the (Full Counsel) of God's word" . . . and then you bring in your "pre-determined bias" to the text and you know before you start what it cannot possibly mean . . .

Why not just study God's Word - every verse every line every word - and just take it for what it says without bringing in our predetermined biases and having to use the "but we see clearly using the full counsel of God's Word"

but we see clearly using the full counsel of God's Word = Some of the most dangerous words in Biblical interpretation