Is Catholicism the Oldest Christian Faith?

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Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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The Muslims say they worship the God of Abraham. You do too.

Look at it this way. Say you convince an atheist that something must have created everything. That's it though.The atheist doesn't believe anything else about God. When the atheist professes God Creator of all that is, as received from your mouth. Is the atheist believing the same God as you?
Muslim say worship Abraham God but I know they are not.

Abraham God have a son (Jesus) muslim God doesn't have a son
 
Apr 2, 2020
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CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
SECOND EDITION

841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."

If catholic not teach muslim and catholic adore the same God why make that statement.

You want to say that statement wrong or what

You say out of context.

What is the context?

Be honest my brother
The context i Vatican II, which begins with a discussion of what the church consists of with it being established that they believe someone must be in communion with the church to be saved. The section that clause falls in makes it clear that Muslims are not in communion with the church, and thus are not saved.
The only thing they do in that statement is affirm that Islam creates a door through which muslims may be evangelized, and give a generous reading to accept the Muslim teaching that Allah is the same God worshiped by Abraham. It is not saying that everything the Muslims teach about God is true, but that they have an imperfect view of the same God and simply need to be instructed in the truth about Jesus Christ.
 
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What people say and what is true are not necessarily the same. The Koran rejects the deity of Christ and the Holy Trinity. Jews also reject both doctrines. But Christians believe -- without the shadow of a doubt -- that the Godhead consists of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. This is the Mystery of God and Christ.

Now the honest thing for the Catholic Church and particularly Pope Francis would have been to tell both Muslims and Jews that Christians DO NOT worship the same God, therefore there is no common ground. But even the Catechism of the Catholic Church misleads Catholics regarding this issue.

QUOTES FROM THE CATECHISM
839--
...The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God's revelation in the Old Covenant... [Note: no mention of the New Testament or the rejection of Christ]
841 --"The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day." [Note: totally false and misleading]

So if a church is prepared to mislead its adherents, what should you do? Walk away from it.
While I agree with your assessment as far as the Jews and Muslims not actually worshiping the same God, there may be more apologetic value in not splitting hairs and taking the Jews and Muslims view as a jumping off point for discussion rather than drawing a hard antagonistic line by entirely separating. That's kind of how I see the Catholic position, not as a means of deception but as an attempt to establish a friendly interfaith rapport.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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about God is true, but that they have an imperfect view of the same God and simply need to be instructed in the truth about Jesus Christ.
This is a way to hide the Lie.

What oaragraph say muslim worship Abraham God but wrong or I perfect Knowledge about God.

Wrong about God to the point Jesus is not God, mean don't know anything about God

Abraham God teach Jesus is God

Muslim God teach Jesus not God

How catholic say muslim worship Abraham God?

Than you can say Hindu worship Christian God but wrong concept about God.

Jews don't believe Jesus, pope peter say straitfoward

Act 4:12
12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Catholic not follow their first pope and Lie

I know why, because they want to make one world religion

Quote
According to the San Francisco Chronicle 1,"prayers, chants and incantations were offered to a dozen deities". But the tone... for the United Religions Organization was really set by a pantheistic ceremony in which children from around the world mingled water from over thirty so-called "sacred waters" in "a great bowl of unity", to the accompaniment of an international) children's choir singing a mournful dirge from the blasphemous Missa Gaia (the earth-worshipping concert originally commissioned by New York's Episcopal Cathedral, St. John the Divine). Mixed together was water from such sources as the. Ganges, Amazon, Red Sea, Jordan and Lourdes. Bishop Swing intoned, "As these sacred waters find confluence here, may the city that chartered the nations of the world bring together the religions of the world."
End quote

https://www.catholicherald.com/faith/your_faith/one_world_religion_/
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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the Catholic position, not as a means of deception but as an attempt to establish a friendly interfaith rapport.
Frendly do not need to Lie.
Say muslim not worship Abraham God but don't need kill,each other, not lie
 
Aug 14, 2019
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Muslim say worship Abraham God but I know they are not.

Abraham God have a son (Jesus) muslim God doesn't have a son
So you agree with catholic to say muslim and catholic worship same God?
Just as Paul taught that the the people at the pagan shrine of the 'unknown god' were worshipping the Christian God.

Paul said they were the same God.
A pagan God and the Christian God
 
Aug 14, 2019
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We are all called to preach the gospel and the formal church template is 1 Timothy 3 .. Direct from Paul
Nope. Not the same thing at all. When Paul taught the Greeks the truest meaning of their myth was he disobeying his own rule ?
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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Just as Paul taught that the the people at the pagan shrine of the 'unknown god' were worshipping the Christian God.

Paul said they were the same God.
A pagan God and the Christian God
Than you believe pagan God is jesus am I correct?
 
Aug 14, 2019
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Jackson, no, I wouldn't say such a thing.

The muslims have descendants of Abraham who's faith was handed down from Abraham. They say they believe that God. How can you say that isn't what they believe?
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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Jackson, no, I wouldn't say such a thing.

The muslims have descendants of Abraham who's faith was handed down from Abraham. They say they believe that God. How can you say that isn't what they believe?
No they not believe Abraham God, because Abraham God teach that Jesus is God and muslim God say Jesus not God
 
Aug 14, 2019
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Than you believe pagan God is jesus am I correct?
Of course not.

Jesus is Truth....yes?
Pagan myth contains a measure of truth. In that measure it can point to Christ. Because Christ is Truth.

Myth can only point. Truth Happened.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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Of course not.

Jesus is Truth....yes?
Pagan myth contains a measure of truth. In that measure it can point to Christ. Because Christ is Truth.

Myth can only point. Truth Happened.
You say pagan God and Christian God is same

Christian God is Jesus
Who is pagan God?
 
Aug 14, 2019
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You say pagan God and Christian God is same

Christian God is Jesus
Who is pagan God?
No Paul did.

Acts 17:23
For as I walked around looking carefully at your shrines, I even discovered an altar inscribed, ‘To an Unknown God.’[g] Wha
t therefore you unknowingly worship, I proclaim to you. 24
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
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No Paul did.

Acts 17:23
For as I walked around looking carefully at your shrines, I even discovered an altar inscribed, ‘To an Unknown God.’[g] Wha
t therefore you unknowingly worship, I proclaim to you. 24
So you don't believe pagan God is Christian God, am I correct?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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That's kind of how I see the Catholic position, not as a means of deception but as an attempt to establish a friendly interfaith rapport.
Well that's the real issue, isn't it? "Interfaith dialogue".

The problem is that John 14:6 does not really allow that. It is an either/or proposition.
Jesus saith unto him, I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life: no man cometh unto the Father, but [except] by me.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
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Look at it this way. Say you convince an atheist that something must have created everything. That's it though.The atheist doesn't believe anything else about God. When the atheist professes God Creator of all that is, as received from your mouth. Is the atheist believing the same God as you?
Do atheis believe that the creator name is Jesus who die oN the cross for our sin?