Where are the sun, moon, and stars?

[Scribe]

Or it could mean what 'heaven' always means in the Bible - 'heaven'. Again, we read: 'Heaven is my throne'. (Acts 7:49), or do you think God did not intend the Bible to fit together as a whole so that words from one book of the Bible have no cohesion with words from another book of the Bible. I am of the opinion that God put it together so that scripture can be compared with scripture throughout, being inspired to fit together by God, its author.

Incidentally, I noticed the original post for this discussion was interested in the sun, moon, and stars. People are sometimes unable to receive the fact that God uses parable language, but perhaps some are aware that the Bible uses these to mean certain entities. For example, the greater light to rule the day, the daystar, is as a bridegroom in the Bible, all pointing to the case that the sun is a picture of Christ. Further, the Bible calls stars pictures of true believers. Further, the lesser light to rule the night, the moon is a picture of the law (Jeremiah 31:35)

Many people think that Psalm 19:1 is about the upper atmosphere and space entities etc: "...The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork." However, the term 'heavens' is actually talking about those in Christ. They are the ones who are declaring the glory of God and they are showing his handiwork (they are his creation, his handiwork). It is not talking about planets and such. It is no different with Genesis. It seems at casual surface reading to be about the creation of the universe, but a look at the terms used indicates that it has a parable meaning. For starters, 'let there be light' is talking about Christ. He is the light in the Bible.

I think you mean allegorical.
When he said Let there be Light, it was an act of creation so I do not think it would be appropriate to say that Light was Christ. Christ was involved in the saying Let there by Light we know that from other scriptures that tell us that all things were created by him and nothing that was created was created without him so he is the one who is involved in creating the Light. The mystery that there was some form of light before the sun, moon and stars is now understood by scientist to be possible and we know that the instantaneous act of creation itself would have created an energy light source as also understood by the big bang theory, though we do not know the details of this light source it is no longer a stumbling block to the skeptic.

 

[bojack]

43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
44 And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour.
45 And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst.
46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

 

[Dino246]

Interesting that you say they can't say the Sun is the center of the universe if they believe it is. I though the new faith is simply believing that the thing hoped for is true, and now you are telling him to get his facts straight if the scriptures of Genesis were not written by anyone with knowledge of science.

So in what way can a person say the Sun is the center of the universe?

Please consider my response that particular statement in the context of my whole post and Garee's whole post.

 

[UnoiAmarah]

We talk about a setting sun even though we know we are the one in motion, so does the bible.

If not for the motion of the Sun then do you think that the earth would move?

What is interesting is that Science is the study of the known and observed physical world but the Biblical scriptures aren't intended to to teach man about the physical world when the earthly things are the heavenly things in Genesis 1:1

11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
John 3:11-12

 

[UnoiAmarah]

43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Reminds of that Cinderella song. don't know what you got til it gone.

The LORD planted a garden in a place called Eden and and out of the ground made to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil. And the LORD commanded the man that from every tree of the Garden he may freely eat.

 

[Scribe]

If not for the motion of the Sun then do you think that the earth would move?

What?

 

[UnoiAmarah]

Just asking what you think causes the earth (celestial bodies) to move.

You suggested in your earlier quote that the earth is the one in motion, as if the sun wasn't, or at least that is what i understood you comment to infer, but if you are not interested in talking about the subject that's kewl, but I really not feeling the mowing the grass thing. But oh well.

Ever heard Wheels in the Sky , I haven't heard it over 20 years but thought about it when I read your previous post.

 

[GaryA]

I don't think the intention was to be a scientific explanation. It is more of a perspective from what we observe. For example in Revelation when stars are falling on the earth like ripened figs they are probably meteorites not literal stars but we call them falling stars even today when we see one. We know what they are, but it is what they look like from our looking up. The sun, moon and stars look like they are in the firmament or vault or what have you and that is enough. We talk about a setting sun even though we know we are the one in motion, so does the bible.

But - isn't this a classic example of wrapping scripture around deep-seated ideas of modern science?

I believe they are real stars actually (literally, physically) falling to the earth - just as indicated in Matthew 24:29 ("stars shall fall from heaven") and Revelation 6:13 ("stars of heaven fell unto the earth").

I believe this because I choose to believe what the Bible says without trying to wrap it around the worldly "knowledge" that I have obtained from worldly sources.

Once you decide to believe what the Bible actually says - a lot of things start becoming a whole lot more clear...

If the 'stars' will one day "fall to the earth" (literally, physically) --- can they possibly be "gigantic suns" waaaaaaaaaay far away - like modern science tells you they are?

The Bible ('God') says the stars will one day fall to the earth.

Modern science ('Satan') says the stars are "gigantic suns" waaaaaaaaaay far away.

Who are you going to believe???

Are you going to believe God? Or, are you going to let Satan trick you with a lie?

What does the Bible actually say?

Why will you not just believe it?!?

 

[Dino246]

But - isn't this a classic example of wrapping scripture around deep-seated ideas of modern science?

I believe they are real stars actually (literally, physically) falling to the earth - just as indicated in Matthew 24:29 ("stars shall fall from heaven") and Revelation 6:13 ("stars of heaven fell unto the earth").

I believe this because I choose to believe what the Bible says without trying to wrap it around the worldly "knowledge" that I have obtained from worldly sources.

Once you decide to believe what the Bible actually says - a lot of things start becoming a whole lot more clear...

If the 'stars' will one day "fall to the earth" (literally, physically) --- can they possibly be "gigantic suns" waaaaaaaaaay far away - like modern science tells you they are?

The Bible ('God') says the stars will one day fall to the earth.

Modern science ('Satan') says the stars are "gigantic suns" waaaaaaaaaay far away.

Who are you going to believe???

Are you going to believe God? Or, are you going to let Satan trick you with a lie?

What does the Bible actually say?

Why will you not just believe it?!?

Or, the Bible uses figurative language in certain places (Revelation being replete with it), and what "it actually says" is not necessarily what "it actually means".

 

[Benadam]

The sun is a symbol of eternity and God because it doesn't change. No phases of light and shadow. A symbol of fatherhood.

The moon symbolizes the temporal. Things that change. Earth. Man. The moon reflects the light of the sun. The moon symbolizes motherhood.


Stars are human souls.

The sun is generator or father of stars.

The moon is mother of stars.

 

[GaryA]

The sun is a symbol of eternity and God because it doesn't change. No phases of light and shadow. A symbol of fatherhood.

The moon symbolizes the temporal. Things that change. Earth. Man. The moon reflects the light of the sun. The moon symbolizes motherhood.


Stars are human souls.

The sun is generator or father of stars.

The moon is mother of stars.

Sounds a bit New Age to me...

 

[Benadam]

Sounds a bit New Age to me...

It's biblical ......the real New Age.
Drawn from Joseph's dream and Revelation.

 

[GaryA]

Or, the Bible uses figurative language in certain places (Revelation being replete with it), and what "it actually says" is not necessarily what "it actually means".

When I ask the question "What does the Bible actually say?", it includes both - i.e. - "What does the Bible actually mean by virtue of what it actually says?" - as opposed to what someone might simply want it to say or mean.

But - I understand what you are saying - and, of course, it is up to every person who reads it to make a proper interpretation...

I believe the wording of Matthew 24:29 and Revelation 6:13 indicate that what is being described is a literal occurrence.

 

[Dino246]

When I ask the question "What does the Bible actually say?", it includes both - i.e. - "What does the Bible actually mean by virtue of what it actually says?" - as opposed to what someone might simply want it to say or mean.

But - I understand what you are saying - and, of course, it is up to every person who reads it to make a proper interpretation...

I believe the wording of Matthew 24:29 and Revelation 6:13 indicate that what is being described is a literal occurrence.

And that's where we differ.

 

[soggykitten]

I wonder what your view is of...

Daniel 8:10 (context 8:7-10) -

"It grew as high as the host of heaven, and it cast down some of the host and some of the stars to the earth, and trampled them."


[not really sure where you're going with the OP ... just thought I'd bring this verse into the consideration esp re: "sun, moon, STARS" part (note: I don't see this verse speaking to the "stars" we see twinkling up in the sky, just to be clear)]

That is part of Daniel's vision of the ram and the goat.
There are many who believe the stars are a reference to angels, or the angelic hosts.

Daniel’s Vision of a Ram and a Goat
Daniel 8:1 In the third year of King Belshazzar’s reign, I, Daniel, had a vision, after the one that had already appeared to me. 2 In my vision I saw myself in the citadel of Susa in the province of Elam; in the vision I was beside the Ulai Canal. 3 I looked up, and there before me was a ram with two horns, standing beside the canal, and the horns were long. One of the horns was longer than the other but grew up later. 4 I watched the ram as it charged toward the west and the north and the south. No animal could stand against it, and none could rescue from its power. It did as it pleased and became great.
5 As I was thinking about this, suddenly a goat with a prominent horn between its eyes came from the west, crossing the whole earth without touching the ground. 6 It came toward the two-horned ram I had seen standing beside the canal and charged at it in great rage. 7 I saw it attack the ram furiously, striking the ram and shattering its two horns. The ram was powerless to stand against it; the goat knocked it to the ground and trampled on it, and none could rescue the ram from its power. 8 The goat became very great, but at the height of its power the large horn was broken off, and in its place four prominent horns grew up toward the four winds of heaven.
9 Out of one of them came another horn, which started small but grew in power to the south and to the east and toward the Beautiful Land. 10 It grew until it reached the host of the heavens, and it threw some of the starry host down to the earth and trampled on them. 11 It set itself up to be as great as the commander of the army of the Lord; it took away the daily sacrifice from the Lord, and his sanctuary was thrown down. 12 Because of rebellion, the Lord’s people[a] and the daily sacrifice were given over to it. It prospered in everything it did, and truth was thrown to the ground.
13 Then I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one said to him, “How long will it take for the vision to be fulfilled—the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, the rebellion that causes desolation, the surrender of the sanctuary and the trampling underfoot of the Lord’s people?”
14 He said to me, “It will take 2,300 evenings and mornings; then the sanctuary will be reconsecrated.”
The Interpretation of the Vision
15 While I, Daniel, was watching the vision and trying to understand it, there before me stood one who looked like a man. 16 And I heard a man’s voice from the Ulai calling, “Gabriel, tell this man the meaning of the vision.”
17 As he came near the place where I was standing, I was terrified and fell prostrate. “Son of man,”[b] he said to me, “understand that the vision concerns the time of the end.”
18 While he was speaking to me, I was in a deep sleep, with my face to the ground. Then he touched me and raised me to my feet.
19 He said: “I am going to tell you what will happen later in the time of wrath, because the vision concerns the appointed time of the end.[c] 20 The two-horned ram that you saw represents the kings of Media and Persia. 21 The shaggy goat is the king of Greece, and the large horn between its eyes is the first king. 22 The four horns that replaced the one that was broken off represent four kingdoms that will emerge from his nation but will not have the same power.
23 “In the latter part of their reign, when rebels have become completely wicked, a fierce-looking king, a master of intrigue, will arise. 24 He will become very strong, but not by his own power. He will cause astounding devastation and will succeed in whatever he does. He will destroy those who are mighty, the holy people. 25 He will cause deceit to prosper, and he will consider himself superior. When they feel secure, he will destroy many and take his stand against the Prince of princes. Yet he will be destroyed, but not by human power.
26 “The vision of the evenings and mornings that has been given you is true, but seal up the vision, for it concerns the distant future.”
27 I, Daniel, was worn out. I lay exhausted for several days. Then I got up and went about the king’s business. I was appalled by the vision; it was beyond understanding.
Footnotes

1. Daniel 8:12 Or rebellion, the armies
2. Daniel 8:17 The Hebrew phrase ben adam means human being. The phrase son of man is retained as a form of address here because of its possible association with “Son of Man” in the New Testament.
3. Daniel 8:19 Or because the end will be at the appointed time

 

[GaryA]

Why will you not just believe it?!?

Perhaps, it is a case of:

C O G N I T I V E _ D I S S O N A N C E

 

[GaryA]

Perhaps, it is a case of:

C O G N I T I V E _ D I S S O N A N C E

And, of course, the obvious inability to properly display monospace fonts is a case of:

S O F T W A R E _ S T U P I D I T Y

 

[Benadam]

Modern science ('Satan') says the stars are "gigantic suns" waaaaaaaaaay far away.

You believe Satan's deception and the observations of modern science are one and the same?

 

[Dino246]

You believe Satan's deception and the observations of modern science are one and the same?

I refer you to his thread on "Flat Earth" in the Conspiracy Forum.

 

[GaryA]

You believe Satan's deception and the observations of modern science are one and the same?

No - I am not saying that. Not all of modern science is a bunch of lies and false information. Some of it is good/okay. Only, Satan has interwoven into it a bunch of lies over the past few centuries.