Calvinism and Context?
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My mistake I should have typed "god"
I need to be more careful for sure!!
I could never confuse the god of Calvinism with the one and only true, revealed in scripture God, the who declares He IS Love
You know Reformed Theology is NOT the Gospel .. Jesus is the Gospel.
And yes Jesus loved the rich young ruler and NO it was not pity.
I need to be more careful for sure!!
I could never confuse the god of Calvinism with the one and only true, revealed in scripture God, the who declares He IS Love
You know Reformed Theology is NOT the Gospel .. Jesus is the Gospel.
And yes Jesus loved the rich young ruler and NO it was not pity.
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only if the setting is Job bringing suit against God ((as Job implied from the beginning, at least as far as ch. 6, and makes explicit in for example 21:4))
in which case as previously discussed all parties involved are "guilty of violating Babylonian protocol"
yet God addresses no such complaints. God merely calls to Job, and says to him, who are you to speak at all? are you anything like Me? do you have knowledge or power or authority? -- dismissing by implication of His very Person, every pretense of the legitimacy of any such judicial pretense as preposterous. to which Job righteously repents & shuts his mouth, saying he, Job, has spoken out of turn.
((incidentally, exactly as Elihu has warned him, 35:16))
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I will ask forgiveness for that lack of a G.
And I assure you that Jesus loved the rich young ruler out of pity and mercy and nothing more.
Jesus gave this young man the opportunity to repent, yet he walk away unsaved. Sadly the ultimate expression of Gods love he will never know. Yes Jesus does love the unsaved.
So tell me what do you believe about the rich young ruler? Did Jesus love him for his meritorious works? For his wise questions? For his inherent righteousness? For his inherent worthiness? Did Jesus love him out of respect for his claim that he ACTUALLY KEPT (!!!???) all of the commandments?
And I assure you that Jesus loved the rich young ruler out of pity and mercy and nothing more.
Jesus gave this young man the opportunity to repent, yet he walk away unsaved. Sadly the ultimate expression of Gods love he will never know. Yes Jesus does love the unsaved.
So tell me what do you believe about the rich young ruler? Did Jesus love him for his meritorious works? For his wise questions? For his inherent righteousness? For his inherent worthiness? Did Jesus love him out of respect for his claim that he ACTUALLY KEPT (!!!???) all of the commandments?
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You keep trying to weasel out of the structure by redefining the protocol in a way that is totally unlike the actual protocol, and it's not according to the structure of the trials that is so common to the type of literature that Job belongs to. Rather than addressing my argument as it stands you subtly re-define it into terms entirely unlike it so you can dismiss the strawman you have made it.
At this point I'm unsure if this is because you truly don't grasp the literary structure argument or if you're simply determined to "win" the discussion regardless of actually engaging my points. The entire structure goes along exactly as such a trial is expected with the exception of Elihu's part. The three friends present the rational arguments for Job being guilty of sin, with Job discarding them with similar rational arguments. Once the rational arguments have all been addressed and a stalemate is reached Job invokes a non-rational proof that calls on God on the basis of the charges by laying out specific sins for which Job could have been condemned. All of this is couched in forensic language and procedures that are exactly in accord with a typical trial.
Enter Elihu who, and I am grossly oversimplifying here, tells Job that God's not going to answer him because Job is evil and insignificant and God is mighty and majestic. Elihu makes some specific parallels between similar literature for the gods of the ANE in his "defense" of God which are likely intentional because that literaure typically ends at that point with the god in question allowing a human to give its defense.
And then God answers Job. Which in itself is significant because Elihu's speech primes us to expect the typical end to such literature. So God speaking on His own behalf immediately has the reader keyed in for differences with Elihu rather than similarities because God's speech necessarily must add value to the story otherwise the typical end would suffice.
To conflate God and Elihu's speeches and not recognize their key divergent points is to fail to properly account for what makes Job special among such literature. Instead of getting a view of God's loving character you're left seeing God in exactly the same as the character of the idols of the land.
At this point I'm unsure if this is because you truly don't grasp the literary structure argument or if you're simply determined to "win" the discussion regardless of actually engaging my points. The entire structure goes along exactly as such a trial is expected with the exception of Elihu's part. The three friends present the rational arguments for Job being guilty of sin, with Job discarding them with similar rational arguments. Once the rational arguments have all been addressed and a stalemate is reached Job invokes a non-rational proof that calls on God on the basis of the charges by laying out specific sins for which Job could have been condemned. All of this is couched in forensic language and procedures that are exactly in accord with a typical trial.
Enter Elihu who, and I am grossly oversimplifying here, tells Job that God's not going to answer him because Job is evil and insignificant and God is mighty and majestic. Elihu makes some specific parallels between similar literature for the gods of the ANE in his "defense" of God which are likely intentional because that literaure typically ends at that point with the god in question allowing a human to give its defense.
And then God answers Job. Which in itself is significant because Elihu's speech primes us to expect the typical end to such literature. So God speaking on His own behalf immediately has the reader keyed in for differences with Elihu rather than similarities because God's speech necessarily must add value to the story otherwise the typical end would suffice.
To conflate God and Elihu's speeches and not recognize their key divergent points is to fail to properly account for what makes Job special among such literature. Instead of getting a view of God's loving character you're left seeing God in exactly the same as the character of the idols of the land.
Jesus tells us to love our enemies the same way He loves His enemies. You are to love them with pity and mercy.
However you do not invite a thief to enter your house or allow an idol worshipper to marry your daughter.
What you don't understand is that there are different types and degrees of love. And much to your horror it is also true that God loves his family members first and foremost and to a far higher degree, and for eternity.
God's love for the unsaved ends eventually and inevitably and they end up in hell.
Perhaps you lack discernment in these matters? I mean you're tripping over these things all the time. All the time.
However you do not invite a thief to enter your house or allow an idol worshipper to marry your daughter.
What you don't understand is that there are different types and degrees of love. And much to your horror it is also true that God loves his family members first and foremost and to a far higher degree, and for eternity.
God's love for the unsaved ends eventually and inevitably and they end up in hell.
Perhaps you lack discernment in these matters? I mean you're tripping over these things all the time. All the time.
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There you go to reading my mind again eh? A very bad habit of yours.
Allow me to correct your profound errors in judgment and understanding.
It may have escaped your attention that Jesus loves his own TO THE END (John 13:1).
The saved enjoy eternal love, infinite in duration and quantity. Boundless love forever.
On the other hand, Jesus' love for the unsaved has an expiration date. Here's what happens when it expires.
https://biblehub.com/nkjv/revelation/16.htm
It looks like Jesus' love for his enemies has turned into absolutely devastating murderous wrath now doesn't?
Wake up and smell the coffee genius. You clearly haven't the slightest concept or understanding of Gods love. I figure you're a hopelessly addled liberal wanna-be hack theologian.
Allow me to correct your profound errors in judgment and understanding.
It may have escaped your attention that Jesus loves his own TO THE END (John 13:1).
The saved enjoy eternal love, infinite in duration and quantity. Boundless love forever.
On the other hand, Jesus' love for the unsaved has an expiration date. Here's what happens when it expires.
https://biblehub.com/nkjv/revelation/16.htm
It looks like Jesus' love for his enemies has turned into absolutely devastating murderous wrath now doesn't?
Wake up and smell the coffee genius. You clearly haven't the slightest concept or understanding of Gods love. I figure you're a hopelessly addled liberal wanna-be hack theologian.
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Romans 5
7For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
8But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
11And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
12Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
13(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
15But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
16And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
17For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
18Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
20Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
21That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
7For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
8But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
11And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
12Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
13(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
15But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
16And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
17For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
18Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
20Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
21That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
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I suggest you read a large stack of reformed theology treatises and get back to me in a year or two. I am weary of your children's Bible study level questions. I need to dialogue with someone who has something to offer that I can really sink my teeth into.
Time for my bed. Have a blessed evening everyone.
Time for my bed. Have a blessed evening everyone.
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God is Love
1 John 4:7-10
7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
He is also a God of justice and judgement. He has no respect of persons. Those who believe and accept the free gift of Jesus' atonement are justified by faith. Those who do not accept are condemned. This is his justice and judgement.
1 John 4:7-10
7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
He is also a God of justice and judgement. He has no respect of persons. Those who believe and accept the free gift of Jesus' atonement are justified by faith. Those who do not accept are condemned. This is his justice and judgement.
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