Are the words of Jesus not for Christians?

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John146

Senior Member
#41
Jan 13, 2016
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#41
lenna said:
the KNOWN world. clearly you are mistaken

and there are yet tribes deep in the Amazon who have not heard

and frankly, how many in the US born here but never heard. they also exist but God's omnipotent hand to deal with at this point since He knows the thoughts and intents of the heart (consciousness or soul so let's not quibble on that one since another thread recently covered it not to everyone's satisfaction)

a little perilous, to say the least, to state what you did
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What world is Matthew 24:14 speaking of? Same wording...

It had gone out almost 2,000 years ago...
 
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John146

Senior Member
#42
Jan 13, 2016
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#42
lenna said:
I can agree with that the way you wrote it, but a few go much further than that

All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for instruction, for conviction, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
II Timothy 3:16

God breathed..there is alot of meaning there and all is all unless we also have folks that think some books should not be in the Bible?
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Genesis is inspired by God. What part of Genesis do you obey? Are there instructions in Genesis that you are to directly obey as a member of the body of Christ?
 
Ahwatukee

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
#43
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
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#43
lenna said:
A few times lately in this forum someone comes along and discredits what Jesus states in the gospels. To date, we have been told that the gospels, the book of Acts and James are not for Gentile Christians. no teaching to be found for Gentiles there

The so called 'Jesus Seminar' dealt with Jesus some 50 years or so ago and I wonder if it has had an effect on modern teaching in Christian collages/universities, churches, especially the popular ones teaching 'gospel light' and so on

The "Jesus Seminar" was begun by New Testament "scholar" Robert Funk in the 1970s. It was Funk’s desire to rediscover the "historical Jesus" that was hidden, he believed, behind almost 2,000 years of Christian traditions, myths, and legends. The Jesus Seminar was created to examine the biblical gospels and other early Christian literature to discover who Jesus truly was and what He truly said.

The Jesus Seminar was (and still is) comprised almost entirely of individuals who deny the inspiration, authority, and inerrancy of the Bible. The agenda of the Jesus Seminar is not to discover who the historical Jesus was. Rather, the purpose of the Jesus Seminar is to attack what the Bible clearly says about who Jesus is and what He taught.

So then you have to ask yourself what it is that Jesus taught and why has it become questionable even by those who purport to believe in the deity of Christ?

the Jesus Seminar goes further though. The "scholars" of the Jesus Seminar do not believe in the deity of Christ, the resurrection of Christ, the miracles of Christ, or the substitutionary atonement death of Christ. Perhaps most significantly, they deny that the Holy Spirit is the author of all Scripture

is there a difference or some fine dividing line between excluding the gospels from teaching about Christianity or just saying 'we don't believe'?

I've seen some responses that seem to indicate the Bible is like a smorgasbord...just pick what you fancy and pass on the rest .

wondering what others think about this?
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The "scholars" of the Jesus Seminar do not believe in the deity of Christ, the resurrection of Christ, the miracles of Christ, or the substitutionary atonement death of Christ.
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Hello lenna!

The information above pretty much describes them as non-believers and therefore, still separated from God and condemned.

Most everything that Jesus said to His disciples, is to be applied to all believers throughout the entire church period.
 
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John146

Senior Member
#44
Jan 13, 2016
16,659
3,540
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#44
Ahwatukee said:
Hello lenna!

The information above pretty much describes them as non-believers and therefore, still separated from God and condemned.

Most everything that Jesus said to His disciples, is to be applied to all believers throughout the entire church period.
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Church didn't start until after the resurrection. Just saying...
 
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lenna

Guest
#45
#45
John146 said:
Genesis is inspired by God. What part of Genesis do you obey? Are there instructions in Genesis that you are to directly obey as a member of the body of Christ?
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you are making things up

this thread is not about Genesis. in trying to be smart you sound kinda dumb IMO


John146 said:
Church didn't start until after the resurrection. Just saying...
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I believe he is referring to the actual op and the Jesus Seminar...maybe read the op for further evaluation regarding his remark AND the intent of this thread
 
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lenna

Guest
#46
#46
Ahwatukee said:
Hello lenna!

The information above pretty much describes them as non-believers and therefore, still separated from God and condemned.

Most everything that Jesus said to His disciples, is to be applied to all believers throughout the entire church period.
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well that certainly would apply to the people in the 'Jesus Seminar' as per my op

I would hope there are no members of that bunch responding in the thread here though

I see danger in the tendency to dismiss the gospels, book of Acts and James as non applicable to us and some have said there is no doctrine to be found in them. with regard to Acts in particular, saying there is no doctrine in that book would completely dismiss the Holy Spirit being sent to indwell believers...to seal them in fact

this, would be the dismissal of a major doctrine. the appearance of the Holy Spirit in the lives of believers and actually being inside of us rather than the way we see Him being portrayed in the OT

you certainly are right about the Seminar people though!
 
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John146

Senior Member
#47
Jan 13, 2016
16,659
3,540
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#47
lenna said:
you are making things up

this thread is not about Genesis. in trying to be smart you sound kinda dumb IMO
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My point was obvious, so I thought. All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, but we do not obey all Scripture. Scripture to the body of Christ is mainly found in Paul's thirteen epistles. Jesus, in His earthly ministry, mainly preached to Jews concerning their promised kingdom being fulfilled with the rightful kind on the throne of David. The sermon on the mount serves as a constitution for living in that kingdom.
 
Marcelo

Marcelo

Senior Member
#48
Feb 4, 2016
2,359
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#48
lenna said:
A few times lately in this forum someone comes along and discredits what Jesus states in the gospels. To date, we have been told that the gospels, the book of Acts and James are not for Gentile Christians. no teaching to be found for Gentiles there
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We must give credit to every single word Jesus said, but this doesn't mean we have to comply with all his words.

When the young rich ruler asked: "What do I have to do to be saved?", Jesus answered: "Keep the commandments". Do our pastors teach this today? No, of course not! It would be wrong to keep the ten commandments today because of the Sabbath. And besides that, salvation today is not achieved by keeping laws.
 
Blade

Blade

Well-known member
#49
Nov 19, 2019
1,620
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#49
Hey.. who were the first Christians? I think one might have trouble looking at the Word believing man wrote it. Now knowing God had a hand.. huge hand in it then His words are everlasting. Can speak to those over two thousand years ago and still speak to us as if He just spoke it. Some if not all know what I am talking about. You read it and that verse just pops up.. shines you can't get pasted it.

To know who what where why is wise but.. its alive..
 
tourist

tourist

Senior Member
#50
Mar 13, 2014
41,322
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Tennessee
#50
Grandpa said:
But then I wonder, maybe the understanding we have of the Lords Words are exactly the understanding that He gives us based on our faith/lack thereof.
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This is probably true.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#52
#52
Guojing said:
The 12 did not preach the death and resurrection of Christ To the Jews during the 4 gospels Luke 9:6

What did they preach exactly then?
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How could they, Jesus had not died yet

they taught faith in christ, as peter said in Johh 6. You have the words of eternal life, and we have come to believe you are the Christ.

your dual salvation theology is dangerous
 
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Guojing

Banned
#53
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
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#53
eternally-gratefull said:
How could they, Jesus had not died yet

they taught faith in christ, as peter said in Johh 6. You have the words of eternal life, and we have come to believe you are the Christ.

your dual salvation theology is dangerous
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So the gospel message did change.

They preach the identity of Christ John 20:31

But now we preach the death and the resurrection of Christ 1 cor 15:1-4
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#54
#54
Guojing said:
So the gospel message did change.

They preach the identity of Christ John 20:31

But now we preach the death and the resurrection of Christ 1 cor 15:1-4
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It’s still faith in gods provision, that’s been the gospel since day one

we have always been saved by grace through faith
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#55
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
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#55
John146 said:
My point was obvious, so I thought. All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, but we do not obey all Scripture. Scripture to the body of Christ is mainly found in Paul's thirteen epistles. Jesus, in His earthly ministry, mainly preached to Jews concerning their promised kingdom being fulfilled with the rightful kind on the throne of David. The sermon on the mount serves as a constitution for living in that kingdom.
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She is drawing the line at the blank page that separates the ot from the nt.
 
L

lenna

Guest
#57
#57
John146 said:
My point was obvious, so I thought. All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, but we do not obey all Scripture. Scripture to the body of Christ is mainly found in Paul's thirteen epistles. Jesus, in His earthly ministry, mainly preached to Jews concerning their promised kingdom being fulfilled with the rightful kind on the throne of David. The sermon on the mount serves as a constitution for living in that kingdom.
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obviously you have either not bothered to read the op in your haste to insert your own interpretations, or, you do not understand it if you did read it. Genesis is not particular to this op

you have no argument, no so called point etc etc

it sure would be nice if you would not use other people's threads for your personal hobby horses. you are not making sense in light of what my op actually is. at that is so, understand I am not responding to your insinuations and insertions in this particular thread again
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#59
#59
lenna said:
obviously you have either not bothered to read the op in your haste to insert your own interpretations, or, you do not understand it if you did read it. Genesis is not particular to this op

you have no argument, no so called point etc etc

it sure would be nice if you would not use other people's threads for your personal hobby horses. you are not making sense in light of what my op actually is. at that is so, understand I am not responding to your insinuations and insertions in this particular thread again
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Sad people do not get it
 
L

lenna

Guest
#60
#60
Blade said:
Hey.. who were the first Christians? I think one might have trouble looking at the Word believing man wrote it. Now knowing God had a hand.. huge hand in it then His words are everlasting. Can speak to those over two thousand years ago and still speak to us as if He just spoke it. Some if not all know what I am talking about. You read it and that verse just pops up.. shines you can't get pasted it.

To know who what where why is wise but.. its alive..
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just so

12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Hebrews 4:12
 
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