Not By Works

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CherieR

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
2,271
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How much is GOD in Control of everything HE wants done ? ? ?

Isaiah 43:10-13 (HCSB)
10 “You are My witnesses”— ⌊this is⌋ the LORD’s declaration— “and My servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe Me and understand that I am He. No god was formed before Me, and there will be none after Me.
11 I, I am Yahweh, and there is no other Savior but Me.
12 I alone declared, saved, and proclaimedand not some foreign god among you. So you are My witnesses”— ⌊this is⌋ the LORD’s declaration— “and I am God.
13 Also, from today on I am He ⌊alone⌋, and none can deliver from My hand. I act, and who can reverse it?


Luke 12:28-31 (ESV)
28 But if God so clothes the grass, which is alive in the field today, and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, how much more will he clothe you, O you of little faith!
29 And do not seek what you are to eat and what you are to drink, nor be worried.
30 For all the nations of the world seek after these things, and your Father knows that you need them.
31 Instead, seek his kingdom, and these things will be added to you.


So if you have TRULY Surrendered control of you life, out of Agape LOVE for HIM, how does that square with the above Scripture, without making you guilty of O you of little faith! ? ? ?

GOD IS THAT MUCH IN CONTROL, but you do not TRUST HIM fully.

Isaiah 46:11 (NIV)
11 From the east I summon a bird of prey; from a far-off land, a man to fulfill my purpose.
What I have said, that will I bring about; what I have planned, that will I do.


So are you not blaming GOD because HE did not do what you wanted HIM to do ? ? ?

No, I am not criticizing you, it is actually what we got from Pastor this Morning.

Thank you, for providing a perfect spring board, giving you a different view of HOW MUCH IS GOD IN CONTROL OF OUR LIVES.
Today one of our pastors spoke on Jesus being enough. We have been going through the 5 solas and the sola that was spoken on today was Solus Christus- Christ alone.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
23,005
8,373
113
Luke 12:32
John 3:16-17
Romans 5:18
I have more if you’d like. 😊
Sorry for the typos. The microphone algorithm on my smart TV isn't so smart and I miss some of the necessary editing/correcting.
 

CherieR

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
2,271
1,429
113
I do not agree this is biblical and when I have time I will discuss further.

But I can say this much... scripture is clear faith comes by hearing not by God's irresistible grace.

Irresistible grace is required if God chooses individuals to believe.

TULIP does not work in bits and pieces.
Ok, I think what you are saying is if God predestines certain people to be saved that in effect those chosen will eventually have to come to God in faith; therefore, such a circumstance would necessitate irresistible grace. Is this what you mean?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Ok, I think what you are saying is if God predestines certain people to be saved that in effect those chosen will eventually have to come to God in faith; therefore, such a circumstance would necessitate irresistible grace. Is this what you mean?
This is not true, if we are predestined based on our belief, not to believe
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
How did a not of works thread become a calvinist war zone?
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
23,005
8,373
113
I do not agree this is biblical and when I have time I will discuss further.

But I can say this much... scripture is clear faith comes by hearing not by God's irresistible grace.

Irresistible grace is required if God chooses individuals to believe.

TULIP does not work in bits and pieces.
"TULIP does not work in bits and pieces"
TULIP is commentary. Whether it relates to legitimate doctrine is open for debate.
I wouldn't obsess over it or get all worked up about it.
Good solid believing Reformed churches have their various views on the matter.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
23,005
8,373
113
In the sense of being chosen based on foreknowledge that a person will believe?
Conduct a word study on "foreknew" (or even "knew").
It becomes more than obvious that merely observing future events is not what the term means.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Conduct a word study on "foreknew" (or even "knew").
It becomes more than obvious that merely observing future events is not what the term means.
Proginosko

to know before.

not sure where you do your word studies but I would find a new source
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Yes it's a little bit more complicated than that. Hit the books you'll figure it out.
Already did that along time ago

like I said, you need a new source if study

gods prophecies come from his foreknowledge it is all based on his omniscience
 

CherieR

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
2,271
1,429
113
How much is GOD in Control of everything HE wants done ? ? ?

Isaiah 43:10-13 (HCSB)
10 “You are My witnesses”— ⌊this is⌋ the LORD’s declaration— “and My servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe Me and understand that I am He. No god was formed before Me, and there will be none after Me.
11 I, I am Yahweh, and there is no other Savior but Me.
12 I alone declared, saved, and proclaimedand not some foreign god among you. So you are My witnesses”— ⌊this is⌋ the LORD’s declaration— “and I am God.
13 Also, from today on I am He ⌊alone⌋, and none can deliver from My hand. I act, and who can reverse it?


Luke 12:28-31 (ESV)
28 But if God so clothes the grass, which is alive in the field today, and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, how much more will he clothe you, O you of little faith!
29 And do not seek what you are to eat and what you are to drink, nor be worried.
30 For all the nations of the world seek after these things, and your Father knows that you need them.
31 Instead, seek his kingdom, and these things will be added to you.


So if you have TRULY Surrendered control of you life, out of Agape LOVE for HIM, how does that square with the above Scripture, without making you guilty of O you of little faith! ? ? ?

GOD IS THAT MUCH IN CONTROL, but you do not TRUST HIM fully.

Isaiah 46:11 (NIV)
11 From the east I summon a bird of prey; from a far-off land, a man to fulfill my purpose.
What I have said, that will I bring about; what I have planned, that will I do.


So are you not blaming GOD because HE did not do what you wanted HIM to do ? ? ?

No, I am not criticizing you, it is actually what we got from Pastor this Morning.

Thank you, for providing a perfect spring board, giving you a different view of HOW MUCH IS GOD IN CONTROL OF OUR LIVES.
Have you considered that in certain times of following our own will perchance we are not trusting that God's will is better and more desirable?

This is something that came to mind for me tonight.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
23,005
8,373
113
Already did that along time ago

like I said, you need a new source if study

gods prophecies come from his foreknowledge it is all based on his omniscience
Really?

So God is creating (by His own express power and will) all these billions of new people and He has no idea what they're going to do? He's looking down upon us gritting His teeth and sweating profusely waiting for someone to get saved? Thinking in His infinitely tortured omniscient mind that it is possible that He set forth the predetermined plan (from eternity past before the world began) to sacrifice his beloved Son in vain and if there are no takers no one will get saved?

And all of the codified prophecies in their overwhelming and breathtaking complexity that pertain to Christ's life, death and resurrection were not actually His plan of salvation, they were a bunch of coin flips and it just happened to work out the way it did, and then the facts got written down?

And Almighty God is not actually willfully and purposefully engaged in the miraculous re-creation and rebirth of fallen men, rather He is sitting on the sidelines handing out eternal life like Gatorade at a football game to the participants who actually won it for themselves, by their own wit and wiles?

I don't think so. I think this is what actually happened:

Phil 1:29
For it has been granted to you concerning Christ, not only to believe in Him but also to suffer concerning Him,

Phil 1:6
And I am certain that God, who began the good work within you, will continue his work until it is finally finished on the day when Christ Jesus returns.

Phil 2:13
For God is working in you, giving you the desire and the power to do what pleases him.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
23,005
8,373
113
Already did that along time ago

like I said, you need a new source if study

gods prophecies come from his foreknowledge it is all based on his omniscience
God's deliberate, willful, predetermined plan from eternity past my friend.
And the same goes for every single saved person that ever was, ever is, and ever will be.

Acts 4:27-30
“For truly against Your holy Servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the people of Israel, were gathered together to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose determined before to be done. Now, Lord, look on their threats, and grant to Your servants that with all boldness they may speak Your word, by stretching out Your hand to heal, and that signs and wonders may be done through the name of Your holy Servant Jesus.”

2Thess 2:13
But we should always thank God for you, brothers who are loved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning to be saved by the sanctification of the Spirit and by faith in the truth.
 

CherieR

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
2,271
1,429
113
Really?

So God is creating (by His own express power and will) all these billions of new people and He has no idea what they're going to do? He's looking down upon us gritting His teeth and sweating profusely waiting for someone to get saved? Thinking in His infinitely tortured omniscient mind that it is possible that He set forth the predetermined plan (from eternity past before the world began) to sacrifice his beloved Son in vain and if there are no takers no one will get saved?

And all of the codified prophecies in their overwhelming and breathtaking complexity that pertain to Christ's life, death and resurrection were not actually His plan of salvation, they were a bunch of coin flips and it just happened to work out the way it did, and then the facts got written down?

And Almighty God is not actually willfully and purposefully engaged in the miraculous re-creation and rebirth of fallen men, rather He is sitting on the sidelines handing out eternal life like Gatorade at a football game to the participants who actually won it for themselves, by their own wit and wiles?

I don't think so. I think this is what actually happened:

Phil 1:29
For it has been granted to you concerning Christ, not only to believe in Him but also to suffer concerning Him,

Phil 1:6
And I am certain that God, who began the good work within you, will continue his work until it is finally finished on the day when Christ Jesus returns.

Phil 2:13
For God is working in you, giving you the desire and the power to do what pleases him.
Hello cv5, @eternally-gratefull did not state that God doesn't know what people will do. He said the opposite that God is omniscient.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
23,005
8,373
113
Hello cv5, @eternally-gratefull did not state that God doesn't know what people will do. He said the opposite that God is omniscient.
The dangerous inference is that God is indeed waiting for others to make the decisions, which in His omniscience He happens to know in advance.

An altogether too common folly.

Any thinking along those lines is utterly crushed by the reality of the Scriptures, which clearly state that in fact God willfully made predetermined plans from eternity past, made all of the decisions about what would happen before it happened, made all of the decisions about what people would say and do before they happened, and of his Own sovereign will chose every single Christian who was ever, is ever, or will ever be saved.
 

Blue_Of_Lake

Active member
Jun 12, 2020
212
83
28
The dangerous inference is that God is indeed waiting for others to make the decisions, which in His omniscience He happens to know in advance.

An altogether too common folly.

Any thinking along those lines is utterly crushed by the reality of the Scriptures, which clearly state that in fact God willfully made predetermined plans from eternity past, made all of the decisions about what would happen before it happened, made all of the decisions about what people would say and do before they happened, and of his Own sovereign will chose every single Christian who was ever, is ever, or will ever be saved.

have you heard of something called Freewill? :)


Free will - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_will
Free will is the ability to choose between different possible courses of action unimpeded.. An action in the past was freely willed if and only if the agent could have willed differently; that is, not performed the action in question and, instead, done something else.