Elect according to the foreknowledge of God. 1 Peter 1:2

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throughfaith

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#981
Aug 4, 2020
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#981
OIC1965 said:
So Paul was a gnostic? He is the one who used election and predestination.

And you don't believe in preceding grace? So it's "God loved us because we first loved" instead of the other way around?
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Yes Paul used those words and man uses those words to suit their doctrines sadly .
 
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throughfaith

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#982
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#982
OIC1965 said:
There is an "already, not yet" aspect to our adoption. Just like there is with our sanctification. We are already fully sanctified POSITIONALLY, but we are not yet in full experience. We are already adopted, but we are not experiencing the full experiential blessing of the adoption yet, for we are waiting for the resurrection when our body will be delivered from corruption.
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We have a verse that says we ARE sanctified.
 
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John146

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#983
Jan 13, 2016
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#983
OIC1965 said:
At conversion. BUT KNOWING AND FOREKNOWING ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS. Foreknowing is knowing before. Before what?
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Knowing ahead of time is foreknowledge. God must know a man as a son before, ahead of time, He predestinates a man to the future adoption. Having previous knowledge...
 
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OIC1965

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John146 said:
Knowing ahead of time is foreknowledge. God must know a man as a son before, ahead of time, He predestinates a man to the future adoption. Having previous knowledge...
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Please give us a breakdown of Ephesians 1:4-5 using context.
 
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John146

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OIC1965 said:
You say adoption is ENTIRELY future, right? So why do we call God our Father if we haven't been adopted yet?
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We have the Spirit of adoption. It is God’s seal that guarantees the adoption will take place.
 
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throughfaith

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#987
OIC1965 said:
There is an "already, not yet" aspect to our adoption. Just like there is with our sanctification. We are already fully sanctified POSITIONALLY, but we are not yet in full experience. We are already adopted, but we are not experiencing the full experiential blessing of the adoption yet, for we are waiting for the resurrection when our body will be delivered from corruption. Out glorification . which includes the redemption of our body, is the revealing of us as the Sons of God.
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You need to learn the Jewish idea of adoption . I know in the west it gets preached in Sunday school that " weve been adopted into Gods family " . But this is not the biblical understanding of Adoption. Which unfortunately your ' adopting '
 
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John146

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OIC1965 said:
YOU say adoption is future.

MY BIBLE says we are already children of God. (1 John 3:2)

I wonder who I should believe.

You say God doesn't foreknow us before we are saved.

My Bible says God God chose and foreknew us before the foundation of the world. Ephesians 1:4-5 I wonder who I should believe.
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But it does not yet appear what we shall be. We will not be a complete child until the day of redemption.
 
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OIC1965

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#990
throughfaith said:
You need to learn the Jewish idea of adoption . I know in the west it gets preached in Sunday school that " weve been adopted into Gods family " . But this is not the biblical understanding of Adoption. Which unfortunately your ' adopting '
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OK, let's hear your Jewish adoption argument.
 
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OIC1965

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John146 said:
But it does not yet appear what we shall be. We will not be a complete child until the day of redemption.
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I would not use the words "we will not be a complete child of God until", but I do agree that there is an Already/not yet aspect to our adoption. Just as there is with our sanctification. We are already adopted positionally, but we have not entered into the full benefits of it.,of adoption, as we await the redemption of our body.
 
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OIC1965

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throughfaith said:
Between myself and John146 we've explained those verses numerous times already?
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Actually you haven't. Let's hear it. Give an exegesis of as many verses in Ephesians 1as you want, but be sure to include verses 4-5.
 
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John146

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Jan 13, 2016
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#995
OIC1965 said:
Please explain Ephesians 1:4-5
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The spiritual blessings in the heavenly places are in accordance to what God has chosen us in him, in Christ before the foundation of the world. To be in him, one must first trust in Christ.

12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
 
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OIC1965

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#996
throughfaith said:
inheritance, full rights and blessings as full grown sons . Putting on the toga so to speak.
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Exactly what I said. We are already adopted but have not experienced all the benefits of it yet. The last stage is glorification. But we are already adopted.
 
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OIC1965

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#997
John146 said:
The spiritual blessings in the heavenly places are in accordance to what God has chosen us in him, in Christ before the foundation of the world. To be in him, one must first trust in Christ.

12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
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Does the passage talk about WHAT God has chosen or WHO God has chosen. (verse 4)
 
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throughfaith

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Aug 4, 2020
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#998
OIC1965 said:
I would not use the words "we will not be a complete child of God until", but I do agree that there is an Already/not yet aspect to our adoption. Just as there is with our sanctification. We are already adopted positionally, but we have not entered into the full benefits of it.,of adoption, as we await the redemption of our body.
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We become a child of God not through adoption but through the new birth . Things different are not the same .
 
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John146

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Jan 13, 2016
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#999
OIC1965 said:
I would not use the words "we will not be a complete child of God until", but I do agree that there is an Already/not yet aspect to our adoption. Just as there is with our sanctification. We are already adopted positionally, but we have not entered into the full benefits of it.,of adoption, as we await the redemption of our body.
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Our destination is to be conformed to the image of Jesus. That occurs at the future adoption of sons, the redemption of the body.
 
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