Have You Received the Holy Ghost Since You Believed?

Wansvic · Aug 17, 2020

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The sequence in which a person experiences the components in Acts 2:38 is of no significance. As witnessed by Acts 2:38 (Holy Ghost received first); 8:12-17 (HG last); 10:44-48 (HG first); 19:2-6 (HG last); and 9:17-18 and 22:16 (HG first). As I noted in each case the message is given and the people respond in obedience to belief, repentance, water baptism in the name of Jesus and receive the Holy Ghost.

Wansvic · Aug 17, 2020

throughfaith said:

Neither were the Samaritans and Gentiles. But they complied with the same commands.

Guojing · Aug 17, 2020

throughfaith said:

He is determined to use acts for his doctrine and is ignoring the need to understand the audience Peter was speaking to in acts 2 and 3

It’s not surprising. Many Pentecostal Christians love early acts

Guojing · Aug 17, 2020

Wansvic said:

You cannot tell you are reading into Scripture there by claiming "His comment proves that obedience to the instructions brings about one's spiritual rebirth whether Jew or Gentile.?

Wansvic · Aug 18, 2020

Guojing said:

I am not reading into anything. The Jewish Council came to the conclusion that God opened repentance until life to the Gentiles after realizing the Gentile experience (Acts 10:44-48) paralleled the Jewish one on the Day of Pentecost. (Acts 2:38)

You can accept or reject this fact as witnessed in the word as stated below:

"When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God ALSO to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life." Acts 11:18

Acquiring life eternal is NOT possible without first being born again spiritually as stated by Jesus.

Wansvic · Aug 18, 2020

Guojing said:

Consider Jesus' statement that repentance and remission of sins would BEGIN at Jerusalem. One can conclude from Jesus' comment that the message would continue since He said it would begin there; not begin and end there. Fact is, the same requirements as outlined by Peter can be seen in the experiences of the Samaritans, Gentiles, and Ephesus disciples as I had stated numerous times. Furthermore, compliance to individual components such as repentance, and water baptism are seen in scripture as well. (Acts 22:16, 8:35-40, 16:28-33, 16:14-15, 18:8, 1 Cor. )

"And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem." Luke 24:46-47

Guojing · Aug 18, 2020

Wansvic said:

Since Currently you are not doing any preaching that Jesus is their messiah in Jerusalem, you can tell that you are not obeying what Jesus is commanding.

Why not, since you believe Jesus is talking to you there?

Wansvic · Aug 19, 2020

Guojing said:

The message of required repentance and remission of sin in Jesus' name was to BEGIN in Jerusalem. This indicates the message was starting there and would progress into the entire world. Notice the connection between water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus and remission of sin. (Acts 2:38) This message was first presented in Jerusalem. Jesus then commanded others to go into all the nations and teach and baptize.

Since Jesus said that repentance and remission of sin would be preached in His name beginning in Jerusalem it makes sense to look where He "pointed." The truth that this information pertains to everyone is seen in Jesus' statement "He who believes and is baptized will be saved. (Mark 16:16)

mailmandan · Oct 6, 2020

Luke 24:47 - and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Acts 3:19 - Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord.

Acts 5:31 - Him God has exalted to His right hand to be Prince and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins.

Acts 10:43 - Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins. 44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message. 45 All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God. Then Peter answered, 47 “Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?”

Acts 11:17 - If therefore God gave them the same gift (Holy Spirit) as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?” 18 When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, “Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance unto life.”

Acts 16:30 - And he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

Acts 15:7 - And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: “Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, 9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

Acts 26:18 - to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.

Mark 16:16(b) - ..but he who does not believe will be condemned.

John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

*So the only logical conclusion when properly harmonizing scripture with scripture is that belief/faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Lion222 · Oct 6, 2020

mailmandan said:

Luke 24:47 - and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Acts 3:19 - Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord.

Acts 5:31 - Him God has exalted to His right hand to be Prince and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins.

Acts 10:43 - Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins. 44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message. 45 All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God. Then Peter answered, 47 “Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?”

Acts 11:17 - If therefore God gave them the same gift (Holy Spirit) as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?” 18 When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, “Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance unto life.”

Acts 16:30 - And he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

Acts 15:7 - And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: “Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, 9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

Acts 26:18 - to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.

Mark 16:16(b) - ..but he who does not believe will be condemned.

John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

*So the only logical conclusion when properly harmonizing scripture with scripture is that belief/faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit.

To believe is to love and to love is to obey.
You cant remove one without removing the all the others.

If I shout fire and point to the exit you believe in me by getting up and leaving that way.
What saves, believing or the getting up and leaving the burning building?
They are one. or your dead.

Salvation begins with obedience out of love and results i God coming to make His home with you, AKA receiving the Holy Spirit of Promise. and if we hold to that promise in faith we purify ourselves just as He is pure and make full use of our being given everything regarding (eternal) life and godliness and if we endure to the end holding to that faith we will be saved.

You are only saved past tense in hope, based on where you put your trust and faith for the promise of what is to come.

mailmandan · Oct 7, 2020

Lion222 said:

To believe in Jesus (unto salvation) not only involves believing in who Jesus is and in historical facts about Jesus, but also trusting in Jesus as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation. The Greek word for believe is "pisteuo" and means to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing) to entrust, (especially one's spiritual well being to Christ).

In regards to love, the love of God has been poured out in the hearts of believers by the Holy Spirit who was given to us (Romans 5:5) and we receive the Holy Spirit when we believe in the Lord Jesus Christ/believe the gospel. (Acts 11:17; Ephesians 1:13) We love Him because He first loved us. (1 John 4:19) Everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. (1 John 4:7)

"Obedience" which "follows" believing unto salvation is "works" and we are not saved by works, but by believing in Christ/placing faith in Christ for salvation. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9)

Believing is not about getting up and accomplishing a list of works to save yourself. Also faith is faith and works are works. If you believe in Jesus unto salvation, then you are trusting in Him alone to save you and not in works. This belief will result in actions appropriate to the belief (to one degree or the other/all genuine believers are fruitful, yet not all are equally fruitful) - but the actions are NOT INHERENT in the belief. Do you believe that man is saved by faith AND WORKS?

Salvation begins with believing the gospel. (Romans 1:16) To believe the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation. (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) If we endure to the end then we demonstrate that faith was firmly rooted and established from the start and we truly are born of God and have not believed in vain.

This hope is not some uncertain cross your fingers kind of hope. Unlike the english word "hope," the N.T. word contains no uncertainty; it speaks of something that is certain. - Strong's #1680 elpís (from elpō, "to anticipate, welcome") – properly, expectation of what is sure (certain); hope. If we have saving faith in Christ then we have this hope. Faith is the assurance of things hoped for.. (Hebrews 11:1) So that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. (Titus 3:7)

Salvation is past tense with ongoing present results -- we "have been" saved from the PENALTY of sin (justification) yet salvation is also future tense -- we "will be" saved from the PRESENCE of sin (glorification).

eternally-gratefull · Oct 7, 2020

mailmandan said:

To believe in Jesus (unto salvation) not only involves believing in who Jesus is and in historical facts about Jesus, but also trusting in Jesus as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation. The Greek word for believe is "pisteuo" and means to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing) to entrust, (especially one's spiritual well being to Christ).

In regards to love, the love of God has been poured out in the hearts of believers by the Holy Spirit who was given to us (Romans 5:5) and we receive the Holy Spirit when we believe in the Lord Jesus Christ/believe the gospel. (Acts 11:17; Ephesians 1:13) We love Him because He first loved us. (1 John 4:19) Everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. (1 John 4:7)

"Obedience" which "follows" believing unto salvation is "works" and we are not saved by works, but by believing in Christ/placing faith in Christ for salvation. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9)

Believing is not about getting up and accomplishing a list of works to save yourself. Also faith is faith and works are works. If you believe in Jesus unto salvation, then you are trusting in Him alone to save you and not in works. This belief will result in actions appropriate to the belief (to one degree or the other/all genuine believers are fruitful, yet not all are equally fruitful) - but the actions are NOT INHERENT in the belief. Do you believe that man is saved by faith AND WORKS?

Salvation begins with believing the gospel. (Romans 1:16) To believe the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation. (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) If we endure to the end then we demonstrate that faith was firmly rooted and established from the start and we truly are born of God and have not believed in vain.

This hope is not some uncertain cross your fingers kind of hope. Unlike the english word "hope," the N.T. word contains no uncertainty; it speaks of something that is certain. - Strong's #1680 elpís (from elpō, "to anticipate, welcome") – properly, expectation of what is sure (certain); hope. If we have saving faith in Christ then we have this hope. Faith is the assurance of things hoped for.. (Hebrews 11:1) So that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. (Titus 3:7)

Salvation is past tense with ongoing present results -- we "have been" saved from the PENALTY of sin (justification) yet salvation is also future tense -- we "will be" saved from the PRESENCE of sin (glorification).

As usual, spot on bro

eternally-gratefull · Oct 7, 2020

mailmandan said:

Luke 24:47 - and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Acts 3:19 - Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord.

Acts 5:31 - Him God has exalted to His right hand to be Prince and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins.

Acts 10:43 - Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins. 44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message. 45 All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God. Then Peter answered, 47 “Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?”

Acts 11:17 - If therefore God gave them the same gift (Holy Spirit) as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?” 18 When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, “Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance unto life.”

Acts 16:30 - And he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

Acts 15:7 - And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: “Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, 9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

Acts 26:18 - to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.

Mark 16:16(b) - ..but he who does not believe will be condemned.

John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

*So the only logical conclusion when properly harmonizing scripture with scripture is that belief/faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit.

It’s sad people want to replace the baptism which comes from god with some immersing in water from a sinner, and the anointing of the spirit with some special, thing where you speak in tongues.

KelbyofGod · Oct 7, 2020

I thank God for both Water baptism in Jesus name for remission of sins, and baptism in the Holy Ghost with speaking in tongues.

Also for those who continue to share those truths.

Thank you Jesus.

Kelby

mailmandan · Oct 7, 2020

eternally-gratefull said:

Sadly, there are people who continue to insist that we are born again (converted) by water baptism and some of these same folks also teach that if you have not spoken in tongues you have not received the Holy Spirit, which is a "different" gospel.

Example below:

Waggles said:

eternally-gratefull · Oct 7, 2020

mailmandan said:

Wonder how he will try to Wiggle his way out of that one on judgment day!

lenna · Oct 7, 2020

mailmandan said:

I would think they are in the minority though?

I disagree with both 'options' but tired of all the negativity towards speaking in tongues, although much seems to be justifiable

the post being referred to is from over a year ago and in another thread. gone prospecting or fossil hunting?

waggles had extreme views. I dunno. seems to me the Bible is clear on all these things.

we are sealed with the Holy Spirit, but the gifts of the Holy Spirit are separate. if you have to speak in tongues, then I guess no one in the OT 'made it'. there is such confusion because of the abuse of things that in my opinion, it is sometimes better not to speak in tongues or believe for anything other than salvation and just let God give you what He will

and as for water baptism, well don't forget your bar of Zest to get the dirt off if you cannot comprehend that it is actually spiritual and done to identify with Christ in His death...in other words you are beginning a new life

I was saved at the ripe old age of 5 and sometimes I feel like about 500 hundred years old when I read all the deviations from scripture that people believe. lately I just read that if some 'religious' practice makes you feel good, then the practice has good fruit and so you can continue no problem

that, is not what fruit is. (silent scream)

sigh

eternally-gratefull said:

well, we are saved or not. there are outrageous claims made by many. God looks on the heart. you should know what I have been through and claimed it was God. (not going to tell, but trust me, way out there...years back thank God)

KelbyofGod · Oct 7, 2020

lenna said:

Lenna,

Thank you for making a post that seems to come from honesty and direct from the heart. (Not from hatred due to differing views).

Speaking in tongues does get a bad rap partly because it is a very divisive topic...and partly because of the peculiar (perhaps even strange and way wrong) things that tongues speakers will sometimes do.

It is divisive because it is a clear cut thing. You either have it or you don't. (Of course if you don't have it, you could seek God for it until he gives it).

The bible says that anything that makes manifest (makes clear and obvious) is light. It's hard to hide from something when it is clear cut.

Waggles said something clear cut and obvious. It leaves no wiggle room. You can check yourself against it and discern clearly whether you line up with it...or not. Then you had to decide what to do with that clear understanding. People don't like something that direct.

Also, waggles had the tendency to be a bit brash...which may have contributed to his being banned.

When it comes to some strange and even wrong things that tongues speakers might do I won't argue that they exist and that some are truly cringe worthy. But once you receive speaking in tongues you have clear evidence that God is real, that He does miraculous things (like giving you some new language) AND that He's willing to do it for YOU. That is a powerful motivator.

If you add in that God says He would rather that a person be hot or cold (enthusiastically right or enthusiastically wrong) rather than lukewarm (playing it safe) then you might understand where some of those mistakes come from.

One of the benefits of having a God who you KNOW is willing to do miracles for YOU is that when you mess something up, you have someone who has the power to fix it. There's a lot of value in that.

Thanks again for your good-natured post.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

lenna · Oct 7, 2020

KelbyofGod said:

I love your post Kelby. and that is not something I say lately. I'm not given to emotionalism where the gifts are concerned because I have seen so much abuse and even from people I knew and trusted.

BTW, I do speak in tongues myself and have seen far too much prayers answered and even situations I was not aware of or things have come up that were just plain bad and then I remember having prayed in tongues and wondered why at the moment I had felt an 'urgency' (those who do pray in tongues will understand I am sure) and then I connect the two

I can actually say with all truth, that I know that 'tongues' have very much helped on a good number of occasions and others I know have the same testimony. and then of course there is all the wonderful praise to God and worship to Him that comes through this gift also. anyway, God is good! so very good

I am sorry so many are so turned off but I get why. we do also sadly have those who speak from another spirit and do not speak for God while saying they serve Him, so there is all of that too

I didn't know waggles had been banned? he was pretty abrupt though

that is true. good insight on your part

again, a great post on your part and one that I can readily agree with. Thank you.

KelbyofGod · Oct 7, 2020

lenna said:

I love your post Kelby. and that is not something I say lately. I'm not given to emotionalism where the gifts are concerned because I have seen so much abuse and even from people I knew and trusted.

BTW, I do speak in tongues myself and have seen far too much prayers answered and even situations I was not aware of or things have come up that were just plain bad and then I remember having prayed in tongues and wondered why at the moment I had felt an 'urgency' (those who do pray in tongues will understand I am sure) and then I connect the two

I can actually say with all truth, that I know that 'tongues' have very much helped on a good number of occasions and others I know have the same testimony. and then of course there is all the wonderful praise to God and worship to Him that comes through this gift also. anyway, God is good! so very good

I am sorry so many are so turned off but I get why. we do also sadly have those who speak from another spirit and do not speak for God while saying they serve Him, so there is all of that too

I didn't know waggles had been banned? he was pretty abrupt though

that is true. good insight on your part

again, a great post on your part and one that I can readily agree with. Thank you.

You make my heart happy.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

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