our CREATOR......
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That He, our Creator and Sustainer (John 1:1-4, 14; Colossians 1:16-17) chose to come here and become one of us to save us (knowing all that it would entail) is indescribably far beyond amazing 
That we are saved from our CREATOR, by our CREATOR, and for our CREATOR is as well .. e.g. Romans 5:8-10; Isaiah 53:5-6.
~Deut
That we are saved from our CREATOR, by our CREATOR, and for our CREATOR is as well .. e.g. Romans 5:8-10; Isaiah 53:5-6.
~Deut
1 Peter 2
24 He Himself bore our sins in His body on the Cross, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed.
25 For you were continually straying like sheep, but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Guardian of your souls.
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Hello @JamesPeterFisher, I didn't notice that you are brand new around here, so I should also say, welcome to CChat
God bless you!
~Deut
God bless you!
~Deut
1 Thessalonians 5
23 May the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body
be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
24 Faithful is He who calls you, and He also will bring it to pass.
23 May the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body
be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
24 Faithful is He who calls you, and He also will bring it to pass.
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That He, our Creator and Sustainer (John 1:1-4, 14; Colossians 1:16-17) chose to come here and become one of us to save us (knowing all that it would entail) is indescribably far beyond amazing
That we are saved from our CREATOR, by our CREATOR, and for our CREATOR is as well .. e.g. Romans 5:8-10; Isaiah 53:5-6.
~Deut
That we are saved from our CREATOR, by our CREATOR, and for our CREATOR is as well .. e.g. Romans 5:8-10; Isaiah 53:5-6.
~Deut
1 Peter 2
24 He Himself bore our sins in His body on the Cross, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed.
25 For you were continually straying like sheep, but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Guardian of your souls.
Can you imagine a babe smiling at you and knowing the eyes that are looking at you are God's?
Who could have thought such a thing?
Thank you for posting that.
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Hello Benadam, there are truly no words to describe the inconceivable things that God chose to do to save us (especially when we know 1. that He didn't have to and 2. that we are completely unworthy of His love and/or of His salvation).
You know, I used to marvel most at His amazing attributes, like His omnipresence, but now I think the most amazing thing of all about Him is His love. This is why I'm glad that we have an eternity to get to know and understand Him better, particularly the depth of His love for us, because I believe that we may need every bit of eternity to even begin to get a handle on it
God bless you!
~Deut
You know, I used to marvel most at His amazing attributes, like His omnipresence, but now I think the most amazing thing of all about Him is His love. This is why I'm glad that we have an eternity to get to know and understand Him better, particularly the depth of His love for us, because I believe that we may need every bit of eternity to even begin to get a handle on it
God bless you!
~Deut
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Hello @JamesPeterFisher, I didn't notice that you are brand new around here, so I should also say, welcome to CChat
God bless you!
~Deut
God bless you!
~Deut
1 Thessalonians 5
23 May the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body
be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
24 Faithful is He who calls you, and He also will bring it to pass.
Deuteronomy, thank you my brother...i appreciate the welcome.....
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Deuteronomy i am very grateful for being welcome to all of you's for welcoming me here it is good to be here and i do thank you all......it will take a little while for me to learn to navigate this site.....i will eventually put it all together.......it is good to be here and GOD BE WITH US ALL.....
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Hello again brother (@JamesPeterFisher), if you have any questions about CChat, don't hesitate to ask them (as most of us here would be more than happy to help if we can).
Other than that, I look forward to talking with you in other threads, as soon as you feel comfortable doing so, that is
God bless you! (Numbers 6:24-26)
~Deut
Other than that, I look forward to talking with you in other threads, as soon as you feel comfortable doing so, that is
God bless you! (Numbers 6:24-26)
~Deut
Hello GraceAndTruth, it’s still one of my very favorite verses (34 years in as a Christian) In fact, if we can afford it, I told my wife that I’d like to have it written on my tombstone.
God bless you!
~Deut
In fact, if we can afford it, I told my wife that I’d like to have it written on my tombstone.God bless you!
~Deut
Hello again GraceAndTruth, yes, I know what v18 says. I'm not following your meaning though, so if you have a chance, please clarify what you just said for me (about v18, or perhaps how you believe that v18 qualifies the meaning of v16, etc.?).
Thanks
~Deut
Thanks
~Deut
I am of the school of context. The entire chapter is the context. As with any topic, it can go beyond one chapter.
John 3:16 for example is one verse in a chapter on salvation, (among other things).....
.For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life.
Breaking that down (as any hermenutic student would):
1st part "For God so loved the world" God loved this world very much. Who did God love? the world
Is the 'world' every person? Cannot be for God was at enmity with the Caananites, the Amarites, the Philistines and all those who were not of His chosen people, the Jews. God hated (RA) Esau.
So then I look to the Strong's to hone in on the word "world" because the meaning is not clear from this one verse. #2889 Kosmos is the Greek word translated in this particular sentence as 'world'
World = 2889= KOSMOS = orderly arrangement, decoration (His church is His orderly arrangement)
It becomes clear ONLY BY IMPLICATION (meaning, the text determines the exact meaning) the world in the wide OR narrow sense, includes the inhabitants.
Ie: the wide sense would be the entire world…….the narrow sense would be a certain group of people
It obvioiusly has to be in the narrow sense because scripture shows us that God does not love everybody. Reprobate is used in scripture to designate those outside the faith. Reprobate (adokimos) means cast away, good for nothing, rejected, reprobate
So now we know that kosmos in this verse does not mean everyone (every inhabitant)
So in the narrow sense it has to mean a group of people. Which group is determined by reading the full text of the chapter
The Intercession of Christ for His beloved at the Last Supper
“ I ask on their (the disciples) behalf, I do not ask on behalf of the world, but of those whom THOU HAST GIVEN ME; for THEY ARE THINE” another example of the narrow sense.
v18 the judgement on the unbeliever took place in eternity past, the words 'has been judged already' puts it in the past tense.
(the pots predestined to destruction)
v27 a man can receive nothing unless it has been given him from heaven (basic english - can means ability, ergo man is not able.)
I do not hide the fact that I am a sovereign grace believer....so-called Calvinist or Reformed.
I believe that many believers like yourself hold to the same tenets of faith that I do. Trinity, Scripture alone and at the least the ULP of Tulip. I do not think any believer would reject the 5 solas. Hanging the name 'arminian' on believers like these is not only an insult, they are far from the remonstrances of those tenets.
GraceAndTruth, I like your reasoning, but let me call to your attention the word "condemned" in John 3:18. Condemned, according to Strong's does not mean condemned to eternal hell. Strong's says it means to aveng, punish, call in question.
"Parish" in John 3:16, according to Strong's means, destroy, die, lose, mar. (sorry, a bit of emergency, will finnish later)
"Parish" in John 3:16, according to Strong's means, destroy, die, lose, mar. (sorry, a bit of emergency, will finnish later)
Hello again @GraceAndTruth, thank you for your detailed explanation
I do my best to stay away from systematic theology debates, particularly out here in online Christendom, and just go with the Bible (as much as I'm able to anyway), because I have come to dislike the harsh tenor that always seems to accompany such debates (and the only conclusion that ever seems to be reached is the same one that both sides entered into the debate with, IOW, "whoever opposes what I believe about the Bible is wrong .. period")!
That said, a word's "meaning", which is often inferred by its context (as you just said), which includes historical/cultural context too, of course, is extremely important to understand and get right (whether or not someone's chosen presupposition is supported by it or not). So, I agree with your assessment of "Kosmos" as it rarely means all w/o exception when it is used in the NT. When Jews spoke of the "whole world", in their minds they were referring to Jews ~AND~ Greeks, the Jewish Nation ~AND~ the Gentile Nations, IOW, every tribe and tongue and people and nation w/o distinction, not every person in the world w/o exception.
The nice thing about John 3:16 is that it does not belong to either one of our popular systematic theologies (IMHO), though many still claim it as theirs anyway (by the addition of an undo and incorrect emphasis on the word "whosoever", rather than leaving the emphasis on the entire phrase, "whosoever believes".
God bless you!
~Deut
p.s. - I have one minor point of disagreement with your last post (and this is admittedly getting picky). You said, "the words 'has been judged already' puts it in the past tense". Actually, that little phrase is in the present perfect tense (which I believe means that while it is an action that is true in the present, it was actually completed in the past).
I do my best to stay away from systematic theology debates, particularly out here in online Christendom, and just go with the Bible (as much as I'm able to anyway), because I have come to dislike the harsh tenor that always seems to accompany such debates (and the only conclusion that ever seems to be reached is the same one that both sides entered into the debate with, IOW, "whoever opposes what I believe about the Bible is wrong .. period")!
That said, a word's "meaning", which is often inferred by its context (as you just said), which includes historical/cultural context too, of course, is extremely important to understand and get right (whether or not someone's chosen presupposition is supported by it or not
). So, I agree with your assessment of "Kosmos" as it rarely means all w/o exception when it is used in the NT. When Jews spoke of the "whole world", in their minds they were referring to Jews ~AND~ Greeks, the Jewish Nation ~AND~ the Gentile Nations, IOW, every tribe and tongue and people and nation w/o distinction, not every person in the world w/o exception.The nice thing about John 3:16 is that it does not belong to either one of our popular systematic theologies (IMHO), though many still claim it as theirs anyway (by the addition of an undo and incorrect emphasis on the word "whosoever", rather than leaving the emphasis on the entire phrase, "whosoever believes".
God bless you!
~Deut
p.s. - I have one minor point of disagreement with your last post (and this is admittedly getting picky
). You said, "the words 'has been judged already' puts it in the past tense". Actually, that little phrase is in the present perfect tense (which I believe means that while it is an action that is true in the present, it was actually completed in the past).
Hello again @GraceAndTruth, thank you for your detailed explanation
I do my best to stay away from systematic theology debates, particularly out here in online Christendom, and just go with the Bible (as much as I'm able to anyway), because I have come to dislike the harsh tenor that always seems to accompany such debates (and the only conclusion that ever seems to be reached is the same one that both sides entered into the debate with, IOW, "whoever opposes what I believe about the Bible is wrong .. period")!
That said, a word's "meaning", which is often inferred by its context (as you just said), which includes historical/cultural context too, of course, is extremely important to understand and get right (whether or not someone's chosen presupposition is supported by it or not). So, I agree with your assessment of "Kosmos" as it rarely means all w/o exception when it is used in the NT. When Jews spoke of the "whole world", in their minds they were referring to Jews ~AND~ Greeks, the Jewish Nation ~AND~ the Gentile Nations, IOW, every tribe and tongue and people and nation w/o distinction, not every person in the world w/o exception.
The nice thing about John 3:16 is that it does not belong to either one of our popular systematic theologies (IMHO), though many still claim it as theirs anyway (by the addition of an undo and incorrect emphasis on the word "whosoever", rather than leaving the emphasis on the entire phrase, "whosoever believes".
God bless you!
~Deut
p.s. - I have one minor point of disagreement with your last post (and this is admittedly getting picky). You said, "the words 'has been judged already' puts it in the past tense". Actually, that little phrase is in the present perfect tense (which I believe means that while it is an action that is true in the present, it was actually completed in the past).
I do my best to stay away from systematic theology debates, particularly out here in online Christendom, and just go with the Bible (as much as I'm able to anyway), because I have come to dislike the harsh tenor that always seems to accompany such debates (and the only conclusion that ever seems to be reached is the same one that both sides entered into the debate with, IOW, "whoever opposes what I believe about the Bible is wrong .. period")!
That said, a word's "meaning", which is often inferred by its context (as you just said), which includes historical/cultural context too, of course, is extremely important to understand and get right (whether or not someone's chosen presupposition is supported by it or not
). So, I agree with your assessment of "Kosmos" as it rarely means all w/o exception when it is used in the NT. When Jews spoke of the "whole world", in their minds they were referring to Jews ~AND~ Greeks, the Jewish Nation ~AND~ the Gentile Nations, IOW, every tribe and tongue and people and nation w/o distinction, not every person in the world w/o exception.The nice thing about John 3:16 is that it does not belong to either one of our popular systematic theologies (IMHO), though many still claim it as theirs anyway (by the addition of an undo and incorrect emphasis on the word "whosoever", rather than leaving the emphasis on the entire phrase, "whosoever believes".
God bless you!
~Deut
p.s. - I have one minor point of disagreement with your last post (and this is admittedly getting picky
). You said, "the words 'has been judged already' puts it in the past tense". Actually, that little phrase is in the present perfect tense (which I believe means that while it is an action that is true in the present, it was actually completed in the past).
On the picky point......I really didn't get that far in my break down.....but would point out that the past tense of the judgement [v18] would quantify the "whosoever' to those who are not under judgement as being able to believe, per John 3:27 'John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven'.
Verses standing alone make for bad doctrine, however,
John 3:16, standing alone, is the comfort verse for all believers.
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