SIGNS AND WONDERS

[lenna]

Gentiles are not given signs and miracles as confirming the message

well that is not true

but then that is your understanding AND experience when you toss Acts. how convenient

the only thing I agree with you on, is the error of Calvinism

otherwise, you actually do not make much sense. you carve up the Bible like you think it is pick and choose

 

[Guojing]

well that is not true

but then that is your understanding AND experience when you toss Acts. how convenient

the only thing I agree with you on, is the error of Calvinism

otherwise, you actually do not make much sense. you carve up the Bible like you think it is pick and choose

If you claim it’s not true, at least show the scripture that backs your claim

 

[Guojing]

I believe God have a reason why He make miracle. I listen a lot of testimonies from Indonesian Muslim, come to Christ because miracle. I know healing miracle not always happen, up to the Lord.
If every time miracle healing happen, we never die, if one kill apostle, God rise Him, than Paul still with us now.

Miracle have reason, and I believe the reason is to make us believe in Jesus so we save.
After we save, is better for us to die and go to heaven than we always heal and never die.
There is a time for us to die and be with Jesus.

Yes, in his pastoral letters after acts 28, Paul talks about the church taking care of the widows

Obviously If he still had the sign gifts, he could have raised their husbands from the dead like Lazarus, and save all the trouble

 

[Jackson123]

Yes, in his pastoral letters after acts 28, Paul talks about the church taking care of the widows

Obviously If he still had the sign gifts, he could have raised their husbands from the dead like Lazarus, and save all the trouble

Paul my still have sign gift, but sign gift doesn't mean every time pray for the sick heal.
I know a person in my town when I was young, he have sign gift, but not all the sick he prayed for heal, some are, some not, it is not depend on us, it is depend on GOD.

 

[Dino246]

1 Corinthians14:22KJV

Tongues Is Gods "Sign" to all the unsaved world.

1 Corinthians 14:22KJV
22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

Are you saying that tongues is the only sign to all the unsaved world? If so, on what basis? Further, what does this have to do with gentiles vis-a-vis Jews?

Are you saying that speaking in tongues is still an active gift given by the Holy Spirit?

 

[Dino246]

Yes, in his pastoral letters after acts 28, Paul talks about the church taking care of the widows

Obviously If he still had the sign gifts, he could have raised their husbands from the dead like Lazarus, and save all the trouble

That's the most ridiculous argument I've read all week.

Paul didn't raise Lazarus; Jesus did, and Lazarus wasn't anyone's husband (that we know from Scripture). Would you propose raising every dead husband who ever lived? No; Jesus intended the Church to care for the needy in its midst, and that intention was conveyed directly as well as through Paul and James.

 

[Guojing]

That's the most ridiculous argument I've read all week.

Paul didn't raise Lazarus; Jesus did, and Lazarus wasn't anyone's husband (that we know from Scripture). Would you propose raising every dead husband who ever lived? No; Jesus intended the Church to care for the needy in its midst, and that intention was conveyed directly as well as through Paul and James.

I never said Paul raised Lazarus. My point was simply that signs and wonders must have ceased by the time Paul wrote his pastoral letters, which were after Acts 28.

 

[Truth7t7]

Are you saying that tongues is the only sign to all the unsaved world? If so, on what basis? Further, what does this have to do with gentiles vis-a-vis Jews?

Are you saying that speaking in tongues is still an active gift given by the Holy Spirit?

The conversation has been no signs were given to the gentiles?

Tongues was given as a sign to all the unsaved world.

I'm not arguing whether the gift is present for today

P.S. I received the gift 43 years ago while praying in my room, it's the same today

Telling me it isn't alive today, is like telling the blind man Jesus healed, that his eyes aren't really seeing.

 

[Guojing]

The conversation has been no signs were given to the gentiles?

Tongues was given as a sign to all the unsaved world.

I'm not arguing whether the gift is present for today

P.S. I received the gift 43 years ago while praying in my room, it's the same today

Telling me it isn't alive today, is like telling the blind man Jesus healed, that his eyes aren't really seeing.

Your tongue speaking is not speaking in known foreign languages correct?

 

[Dino246]

I never said Paul raised Lazarus. My point was simply that signs and wonders must have ceased by the time Paul wrote his pastoral letters, which were after Acts 28.

You didn't support your point with any coherent evidence, and you've just added another baseless claim. Why do you think the pastoral letters were written after Acts 28?

 

[Dino246]

The conversation has been no signs were given to the gentiles?

Tongues was given as a sign to all the unsaved world.

I'm not arguing whether the gift is present for today

P.S. I received the gift 43 years ago while praying in my room, it's the same today

Telling me it isn't alive today, is like telling the blind man Jesus healed, that his eyes aren't really seeing.

I gave your post a like, because we're on the same page with regard to "speaking in tongues" being active today. However, I don't agree with your "all the unsaved world" statement simply because the text doesn't say that.

 

[Guojing]

You didn't support your point with any coherent evidence, and you've just added another baseless claim. Why do you think the pastoral letters were written after Acts 28?

Acts 28:25 And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers,

26 Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:

27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.

Because by Acts 28, the entire Jewish nation, both in Jerusalem and the diaspora, have rejected Christ as their Messiah?

So while Paul gave instructions regarding proper usage of tongue speaking in 1 Cor, which was still being written in the transitional period before Acts 28, by the time the pastoral letters of Ephesians onwards were written, no mention of tongue speaking was made by Paul ever again?

 

[Truth7t7]

Your tongue speaking is not speaking in known foreign languages correct?

The gift I received 43 years ago, I don't believe it's a known language on this Earth, but there are thousands of dialects, and I'm not researching these dialects to find out.

I received this gift immediately in my room during prayer for the gift, it was supernatural and it's the very same today, used in my prayer life.

 

[Guojing]

The gift I received 43 years ago, I don't believe it's a known language on this Earth, but there are thousands of dialects, and I'm not researching these dialects to find out.

I received this gift immediately in my room during prayer for the gift, it was supernatural and it's the very same today, used in my prayer life.

Yes, I have yet to meet anyone with the gift of tongues who could speak in a known foreign language that they have not learned before.

And when you hear tongue speaking in churches, when you listen carefully, they all sound very similar

 

[Dino246]

Acts 28:25 And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers,

26 Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:

27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.

Because by Acts 28, the entire Jewish nation, both in Jerusalem and the diaspora, have rejected Christ as their Messiah?

So while Paul gave instructions regarding proper usage of tongue speaking in 1 Cor, which was still being written in the transitional period before Acts 28, by the time the pastoral letters of Ephesians onwards were written, no mention of tongue speaking was made by Paul ever again?

Streeeeeeetch.

You have in no way supported your claim that the pastoral letters were written after Acts 28. You're trying to argue "Q" when you haven't established A, B, and C. To put it another way, you're employing circular reasoning.

 

[Dino246]

Yes, I have yet to meet anyone with the gift of tongues who could speak in a known foreign language that they have not learned before.

Nowhere in Scripture does it say that "speaking in tongues" is limited to "known foreign languages".

 

[Guojing]

Streeeeeeetch.

You have in no way supported your claim that the pastoral letters were written after Acts 28. You're trying to argue "Q" when you haven't established A, B, and C. To put it another way, you're employing circular reasoning.

I thought it was pretty accepted that, from Ephesians onwards, Paul wrote all of them during or after his time in jail while in Rome?

Except for 1 and 2 thess of course, which were the first letters he wrote

 

[Dino246]

I thought it was pretty accepted that, from Ephesians onwards, Paul wrote all of them during or after his time in jail while in Rome?

Except for 1 and 2 thess of course, which were the first letters he wrote

It might be "pretty accepted" in your local fellowship, but not necessarily across Christendom.

Paul addressed different issues in different letters, because the issues that needed his attention were not the same in every location. There is no need for every letter to address (or even mention) spiritual gifts. He addressed the Christian's relationship to the Law in Galatians and Romans, but not in his later letters; should we then conclude that Christians would eventually be under the Law? No.

In the same way, the absence of the topic of spiritual gifts in later letters tells us exactly nothing. Claiming otherwise is called an argument from silence, and it is a fallacy.

 

[Guojing]

It might be "pretty accepted" in your local fellowship, but not necessarily across Christendom.

Paul addressed different issues in different letters, because the issues that needed his attention were not the same in every location. There is no need for every letter to address (or even mention) spiritual gifts. He addressed the Christian's relationship to the Law in Galatians and Romans, but not in his later letters; should we then conclude that Christians would eventually be under the Law? No.

In the same way, the absence of the topic of spiritual gifts in later letters tells us exactly nothing. Claiming otherwise is called an argument from silence, and it is a fallacy.

Alright then, this is a non salvific issue anyway. Whether one believes that signs and wonders ceased or not, salvation does not depend on that

 

[mustaphadrink]

Jesus healed all those that came to him . He wasn't forcing the healing . His ministry was to demonstrate he was who he said he was . To Israel . They should have recognised the signs .
luke 7
20¶When the men were come unto him, they said, John Baptist hath sent us unto thee, saying, Art thou he that should come? or look we for another?
21And in that same hour he cured many of their infirmities and plagues, and of evil spirits; and unto many that were blind he gave sight.
22¶Then Jesus answering said unto them, Go your way, and tell John what things ye have seen and heard; how that the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, to the poor the gospel is preached.
23And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me.

You said "Jesus healed all those that came to him"

Then you quoted the scripture that says....21 And in that same hour he cured many of their infirmities and plagues, and of evil spirits; and unto many that were blind, he gave sight.

I hope you know that there is a difference between many and all?