When are we saved ?

[fredoheaven]

The Godhead has different functions. The Holy Spirit also has different functions. The Holy Spirit, initially, Quickens to life. The Holy Ghost is a comforter, an advocate of the Holy Spirit, a revelator.

John 14:26, But the comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. The Apostle's already had the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, before they received the comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, which is an advocate of the Holy Spirit. Comforter in Greek=advocate.

Holy Ghost =Holy Spirit.

 

[Magenta]

Holy Ghost = Holy Spirit.

FGC says they are separate entities with different functions.

The reality is that among modern translations, only the KJV uses the term "Holy Ghost."

Most would likely affirm that "Holy Ghost" and "Holy Spirit" refer to the Third Person of the Trinity.

 

[lenna]

FGC says they are separate entities with different functions.

The reality is that among modern translations, only the KJV uses the term "Holy Ghost."

Most would likely affirm that "Holy Ghost" and "Holy Spirit" refer to the Third Person of the Trinity.

I am trying to think of words to describe the realization that someone thinks ghost and spirit indicates 2 different beings

this really opens up a new chapter in bizarre understandings

 

[OIC1965]

How and why were you called ?

I was called by the Spirit of God. To be holy and blameless before Him in love- relationship FIRST. Service secondly.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

nkjv
Then he remembered the days of old,
Moses and his people, saying:
“Where is He who brought them up out of the sea
With the shepherd of His flock?
Where is He who put His Holy Spirit within them,
NASB
Then His people remembered the days of old, of Moses.
Where is He who brought them up out of the sea with the shepherds of His flock?
Where is He who put His Holy Spirit in the midst of them,
NLT
Then they remembered those days of old
when Moses led his people out of Egypt.
They cried out, “Where is the one who brought Israel through the sea,
with Moses as their shepherd?
Where is the one who sent his Holy Spirit
to be among his people?
ASV
Then he remembered the days of old, Moses and his people, saying, Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherds of his flock? where is he that put his holy Spirit in the midst of them?

Your problem is that you rely too much upon other people's interpretations of the scriptures, instead of relying upon the scriptures proving themselves.

 

[OIC1965]

Not too many times on this forum do I get to converse with someone who is serious in discussing with patience the truths found in them, as I feel that you are.

Jesus was our sacrifice for sins over 2000 years ago, and Rom 4:25, says he was delivered for our offences, and was raised for our justification, and you are telling me that we are not justified, unless we believe?

2 Tim 2:13, that if we believe not, Jesus will abide faithful, he cannot deny himself.

Those that Christ died for, which was those that his Father gave to him, was not his death to pay for their sins? If Christ died for their sins, are they not without sin in the eyes of God, whether they know it or not?

I appreciate your patience with me, most do not have the patience to hear me out.

Thank you for your kind words

I say we are justified only when we believe for several reasons. Two should be enough here.

1. Paul teaches that we are justified by faith.

2. The gospel of John states “ whoever believes is not condemned,whoever does not believe is condemned already, for He has not believed the testimony God has given concerning His Son.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Ok there is not two Holy Spirit s . See this is the problem when you take on systematic reformed theology . Because you HAVE to have certain ducks lined up in a row, this forces you to distort the scriptures to fit the paradigm..How on earth have you arrived at the conclusion people were indwelt before the resurrection? That the apostles had the indwelling of the Holy Spirit before the Holy Spirit was given in Acts 2 . Especially as Jesus makes a big thing telling them he would come and that they should wait for him at a certain time and place . Have you read acts 2 ? The Comforter IS the Holy spirit .

Read the scripture again. It says that the comforter is the Holy Ghost, which is the Holy Spirit, functioning as a revelator, not as a quickening to life.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

We are told exactly or precisely to believe 'in him'. Amen!

We are told to believe in him, but not for the cause of getting eternal life.

2 Tim 2:13, For if they believe not, yet he abideth faithful, he cannot deny himself.

 

[OIC1965]

Did you mean power or authority? No one gives either to God ?

If people can say my posts sound Calvinistic, I can say that some people’s posts sound like people think that we give God the power or authority to save us.

Not speaking of you personally

Faith is not something that earns points with God. We are granted the right to believe by God.

The faith that pleases God pleases Him because the righteousness of the Son who pleased and pleases the Father is imputed to us.

I will boast in what Christ has done...and that alone!

 

[OIC1965]

If people can say my posts sound Calvinistic, I can say that some people’s posts sound like people think that we give God the power or authority to save us.

Not speaking of you personally

Faith is not something that earns points with God. We are granted the right to believe by God.

The faith that pleases God pleases Him because the righteousness of the Son who pleased and pleases the Father is imputed to us.

I will boast in what Christ has done...and that alone!

Ephesians 2:10, 1 Corinthians 1:31

 

[OIC1965]

Rom 4.5
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, HIS FAITH is counted for righteousness."

Is it our faith that is righteous or is Christ’s righteousness and perfect obedience imputed to us when we believe?

 

[Magenta]

Is it our faith that is righteous or is Christ’s righteousness and perfect obedience imputed to us when we believe?

The verse says our faith is counted for righteousness.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

I am trying to think of words to describe the realization that someone thinks ghost and spirit indicates 2 different beings

this really opens up a new chapter in bizarre understandings

Respectfully, I would like to correct you. I did not say that the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Ghost were two different beings. I said that they were both the Holy Spirit that has two different functions, The quickening Spirit, and the revelator Spirit.

Do you realise that in Jesus's days on earth the biggest part of society thought Jesus's doctrine was to far out to believe, and it seems to be the same attitude in this day and time.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Thank you for your kind words

I say we are justified only when we believe for several reasons. Two should be enough here.

1. Paul teaches that we are justified by faith.

2. The gospel of John states “ whoever believes is not condemned,whoever does not believe is condemned already, for He has not believed the testimony God has given concerning His Son.

It is good that we can reason together. John 3:18, He that believeth on him is not condemned, but he that believeth not is condemned already. I do not know your views on the depraved nature of mankind by his fleshly nature, but I believe that the scriptures teach, according to Paul, that although we have been born again, we still do carry the baggage of our fleshly nature with us as long as we live, and struggle with the flesh against the Spirit. With that thought in mind, the word "condemned," in John 3:18, does not mean, according to Strong's, condemned to hell, but to punish, or call in question.

This is the reason that I think that it harmonizes with 2 Tim 2:13, For if they believe not, yet he abideth faithful, he cannot deny himself. I believe there are some regenerated people who do not believe, but because they are in Christ, and Christ is in them, he cannot deny himself. Therefore, I believe that the scriptures teach that believing is not the cause of our eternal inheritance, but is a product of eternal salvation to some people.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Is it our faith that is righteous or is Christ’s righteousness and perfect obedience imputed to us when we believe?

Our faith is counted to us for righteousness, but it is Jesus's faith that justifies us.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

The verse says our faith is counted for righteousness.

But it is Jesus's faith that justifies us, Gal 2:16.

 

[OIC1965]

The verse says our faith is counted for righteousness.

Good answer

 

[OIC1965]

Our faith is counted to us for righteousness, but it is Jesus's faith that justifies us.

Good post except I would say Jesus’ perfectobedience

 

[throughfaith]

I was called by the Spirit of God. To be holy and blameless before Him in love- relationship FIRST. Service secondly.

I think the bible reveals something better than what some are arguing for . Thats my position actually .

 

[throughfaith]

Your problem is that you rely too much upon other people's interpretations of the scriptures, instead of relying upon the scriptures proving themselves.

Who's interpretation?