When are we saved ?

[OIC1965]

Some take this view. its not misplaced.

Romans 8:29 is exclusively about Jews? How can one come to that conclusion.

 

[Magenta]

That is a lovely picture... the complete ensemble.... she just needs gloves....I love that look ... I was born at the wrong time I would have loved dressing in the Fifties....lol

I am saving that one...thanks!

Oh, but those shoes!

As children, my sisters and I loved rifling through boxes of old clothes in the attic, and playing dress-up

 

[OIC1965]

I'm saying some do take that view .

No rational reason to interpret it that way. Nothing supports that view. It is entirely arbitrary.

 

[OIC1965]

I think you may need some time . Exposure to certain theology takes time to undo . I wish you well in your studies.

I do not wish to undo my exposure to the Bible.

 

[OIC1965]

I didn’t post right.

When Paul uses the word elect in a salvation context, it is about Christians. Only when He is quoting or alluding to the OT does it mean Christ or Israel.

For example, Romans 8:33 is talking about the same people that Romans 8:1-32 is talking about.

 

[throughfaith]

No rational reason to interpret it that way. Nothing supports that view. It is entirely arbitrary.

I'm not sure i even understand your argument against what I'm saying about election and Predestination. Your saying its wrong but I'm still confused in light of what your saying is wrong with my view ,how your view makes sense ? What are you arguing for ? Whats the big picture here? Whats the consequences you see my view holds. What does your view help us understand the components of salvation and how we appropriate salvation..Your view has me scratching my head ?

 

[throughfaith]

I do not wish to undo my exposure to the Bible.

So far I don't know what your view does ?

 

[OIC1965]

Some take this view. its not misplaced.

Not only is Romans about the church/ the believers, the book of Ephesians which has the most definitive teaching on election was written primarily to Gentiles.

All I see here is people reading their pre existing beliefs into the Bible. It’s really sad.

 

[throughfaith]

Not only is Romans about the church/ the believers, the book of Ephesians which has the most definitive teaching on election was written primarily to Gentiles.

All I see here is people reading their pre existing beliefs into the Bible. It’s really sad.

' teaching on election ' ? thats not something a serious bible student should say . Thats doctrine speak.

 

[OIC1965]

I'm not sure i even understand your argument against what I'm saying about election and Predestination. Your saying its wrong but I'm still confused in light of what your saying is wrong with my view ,how your view makes sense ? What are you arguing for ? Whats the big picture here? Whats the consequences you see my view holds. What does your view help us understand the components of salvation and how we appropriate salvation..Your view has me scratching my head ?

Which comes first? Predestination or calling?

 

[OIC1965]

' teaching on election ' ? thats not something a serious bible student should say . Thats doctrine speak.

So there should be no teaching on
εκλογή ( election)? Just take that word out of the Bible??? The word is found seven times in the Bible. And to choose ( Ephesians 1:4) is the verb form of choice, which is the same as election anyways

 

[OIC1965]

See you did not answer my question... sigh .. I give up.

R. C. Sproul would clearly state YES God chose those individuals for salvation and only those individuals.
Yet this has far reaching implications and R. C. Sproul accepted those implications as well.

Alright, I have learned well enough that once this dogma once it is in someone's mind it is hard for them to see otherwise.
Movin on.....

Hi. I’m flattered but I’m not RC Sproul.

 

[OIC1965]

Which comes first? Predestination or calling?

let’s try to end on this. Which happens first? Does God predestine us first or does He call us first?

 

[EleventhHour]

Oh, but those shoes!

As children, my sisters and I loved rifling through boxes of old clothes in the attic, and playing dress-up

Indeed... so much fun!!

 

[throughfaith]

So there should be no teaching on
εκλογή ( election)? Just take that word out of the Bible??? The word is found seven times in the Bible. And to choose ( Ephesians 1:4) is the verb form of choice, which is the same as election anyways

I meant when someone says . " The bible is teaching this and that in this passage " " Paul is teaching the sovereign, doctrines of grace here " ect . Thats not what the bible is doing . Thats someone confused about what the bible SAYS .

 

[OIC1965]

I meant when someone says . " The bible is teaching this and that in this passage " " Paul is teaching the sovereign, doctrines of grace here " ect . Thats not what the bible is doing . Thats someone confused about what the bible SAYS .

So Paul does not teach in his epistles?

 

[throughfaith]

Which comes first? Predestination or calling?

Predestination is of existing saints to future glorification/ Adoption. I realise this clashes with those indoctrinated with a more reformed theological systematic. In fact I realise this view comes as a bewildering concept when a person has only been subjected to either reformed perspectives . Calvinism and Arminsim. I often wonder if to some they only understand these two options.

 

[throughfaith]

So Paul does not teach in his epistles?

I'm yet to hear what you think Paul is trying to communicate to those at Ephesus ?

 

[Magenta]

Predestination is of existing saints to future glorification/ Adoption. I realise this clashes with those indoctrinated with a more reformed theological systematic. In fact I realise this view comes as a bewildering concept when a person has only been subjected to either reformed perspectives . Calvinism and Arminsim. I often wonder if to some they only understand these two options.

It seems so. In fact, I recently posted a third option and was mocked for it. Apparently if you are able to harmonize Scripture in a way that does not align with mainstream thinking, it is believed you belong to some sect or cult. That happens a lot, as people are unable to look beyond the boxes they are in.

 

[throughfaith]

So there should be no teaching on
εκλογή ( election)? Just take that word out of the Bible??? The word is found seven times in the Bible. And to choose ( Ephesians 1:4) is the verb form of choice, which is the same as election anyways

11¶Wherefore remember OIC1965 that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

STRANGERS !!!! HAVING NO HOPE !!!!

" oh but God chose me before I was born " He saw i would choose him . He determined i would be his love gift to ....STOP with the nonsense . STRANGERS !!!!!!! NO HOPE !!!!!!! WITHOUT !!!!! GOD . WAKEY WAKEY !!!!!