Faith without works is dead - Bonhoeffer

[Jackson123]

The scripture you share is an analogy not to be taken literally but rather a call for Christians to purify their hearts. If you wanted to talk about hateful people you should’ve simply looked in the mirror. There’s no grace in your posts.

I post what cor 6:9-10 is there any grace in that verse?

I guess grace come after accepting the teaching of the bible
You don't need to pay your sin in hell If you repent, that is grace

It Seem bible not teach grace mean keep murder No need repent and go to heaven.

Grace in bible teaching is after believe what ever bible teach.
John 3
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Grace for whosoever believe in Him, mean believe His teaching.

This is one of the Example of His teaching
Matt 6
15 But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.

In other word, Jesus say don't expect the grace of forgiveness from the Father If you do not give grace of forgiveness to your brother.


Grace not withou requirement and keep rob or Cheating money for easy living without working hard

 

[Jackson123]

The scripture you share is an analogy not to be taken literally but rather a call for Christians to purify their hearts. If you wanted to talk about hateful people you should’ve simply looked in the mirror. There’s no grace in your posts.

Not be taken literally?
Is That verse mean murder envy, adulterer go to heaven after not taking literally?

What is your definition of analogy, why you say that is analogy

Is Envy in that verse analogy?
Analogy of what?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Did you ever meet a Christian who was unrepentant of murder? No you haven’t so get lost with your red herring argument.

He is stuck on the murder issue. He thinks they are lost while he is ok because he does not commit those sins hence denying his own sin

Good luck bro. I gave up along time ago. Will drive you crazy if you let him

 

[Duskey]

I post what cor 6:9-10 is there any grace in that verse?

I guess grace come after accepting the teaching of the bible
You don't need to pay your sin in hell If you repent, that is grace

It Seem bible not teach grace mean keep murder No need repent and go to heaven.

Grace in bible teaching is after believe what ever bible teach.
John 3
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Grace for whosoever believe in Him, mean believe His teaching.

This is one of the Example of His teaching
Matt 6
15 But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.

In other word, Jesus say don't expect the grace of forgiveness from the Father If you do not give grace of forgiveness to your brother.


Grace not withou requirement and keep rob or Cheating money for easy living without working hard

Grace has no requirements, hence the word in and of itself, grace.

 

[MyrtleTrees]

Hi Duskey, I would say not working for/working at/working up/etc., but yes to, "working out"/expressing outwardly in action, the salvation that I ~already~ possess, the salvation that the Lord has ~already~ worked in me .. e.g. Philippians 2:12-13.

Of course, that's me. I can't speak for MyrtleTrees, but it seems like she is saying much the same thing. @MyrtleTrees

God bless you!

~Deut
p.s. - both Luther and Calvin said this concerning sola fide (see below), and I agree. True, saving faith always leads to/results in/is seen/demonstrated/justified before men by a changed life .. e.g. 2 Corinthians 5:17; Ephesians 2:10; James 2:18, 24.

"We are justified by faith alone, but the faith that justifies is never alone"​

​

Yes, the Bible says that if we have become true children of God, it will show in our lives! It takes effort to follow God and may involve persecution, etc., but it's well worth it, as those who end up in heaven will be greatly rewarded eternally, as you know!

I think I'll go to a different forum than this one, soon, since there seems to be so few who understand this subject as i do. I already expressed my views on it to as many as replied to my posts. But most are repeatedly unable to see what I see, so I think my time would be better spent in a Christian group with people who believe more like me on this important subject of the way of salvation. No subject is so important as that!

 

[Deuteronomy]

Yes, the Bible says that if we have become true children of God, it will show in our lives! It takes effort to follow God and may involve persecution, etc., but it's well worth it, as those who end up in heaven will be greatly rewarded eternally, as you know!

I think I'll go to a different forum than this one, soon, since there seems to be so few who understand this subject as i do. I already expressed my views on it to as many as replied to my posts. But most are repeatedly unable to see what I see, so I think my time would be better spent in a Christian group with people who believe more like me on this important subject of the way of salvation. No subject is so important as that!

Hello MyrtleTrees, you will have trouble finding complete agreement (and sometimes finding anything close to that) on most of our online Christian forums, just FYI, as there as so many out here who hold to & press an unorthodox understanding (of part or of most) of the Christian faith. There is one forum that comes to mind, The Puritan's Board, but to join that forum you need to have credentials (you need to tell them which Reformed church you belong to, and which Confession you adhere to, etc.), because they are all there to discuss the various aspects of the Reformed faith, not to spend thousands of hours discussing whether the Reformed faith is true or not.

That said, there are a number of other Christian forums from which to choose, so go check them out if you'd like to (I believe christianforums.com is the biggest/most active board these days, just FYI, but like I mentioned above, the diversity of beliefs there is just as big or even bigger than it is here).

The other thing is, if you know the truth, why not stay and continue to share it with those who do not You can post on two different forums too, of course

Finally, I have found that this format (Christian online discussion boards) leads to misunderstandings between people who believe the exact same things many times, because what is meant by one member is oft times misunderstood by another member (because many of us have such different understandings of the common terminology we use, and we all tend to express things in different ways as well, and that with no help from vocal inflection or facial expression like we would have if we were talking to each other in person). I try to figure out better ways of communicating with others online, and things have gotten a bit better over the years as a result I am happy to report.

So, I guess what I'm also saying is that your beliefs may lie closer to what others believe than you know

God bless you!

~Deut

 

[Jackson123]

Grace has no requirements, hence the word in and of itself, grace.

Luke 14:27
“And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.”

It Seem to get grace as Jesus disciple require bear his cross

 

[Blik]

Thank you for clarifying. You are right. Abraham had great faith, and obedience came out it. But wait .... Did not God promise Abraham seed as the sand of the seashore? And yet when Abraham went down to Egypt and to Philistia, he twice ordered his wife to tell lies to save his life. But if he was dead, how could he have had seed? He had not yet had a son. Telling your wife to lie is a WORK that shows NO FAITH in God's Word or His ability? If he believed God he would never think he could be killed till he had a son.

Who do you think failed worse - Abraham or David?

The Lord does not go be rules, but by the spirit. A recent time of telling lies to save someone from being murdered was when people lied to the Nazi of Germany to save life.

 

[MyrtleTrees]

Hello MyrtleTrees, you will have trouble finding complete agreement (and sometimes finding anything close to that) on most of our online Christian forums, just FYI, as there as so many out here who hold to & press an unorthodox understanding (of part or of most) of the Christian faith. There is one forum that comes to mind, The Puritan's Board, but to join that forum you need to have credentials (you need to tell them which Reformed church you belong to, and which Confession you adhere to, etc.), because they are all there to discuss the various aspects of the Reformed faith, not to spend thousands of hours discussing whether the Reformed faith is true or not.

That said, there are a number of other Christian forums from which to choose, so go check them out if you'd like to (I believe christianforums.com is the biggest/most active board these days, just FYI, but like I mentioned above, the diversity of beliefs there is just as big or even bigger than it is here).

The other thing is, if you know the truth, why not stay and continue to share it with those who do not You can post on two different forums too, of course

Finally, I have found that this format (Christian online discussion boards) leads to misunderstandings between people who believe the exact same things many times, because what is meant by one member is oft times misunderstood by another member (because many of us have such different understandings of the common terminology we use, and we all tend to express things in different ways as well, and that with no help from vocal inflection or facial expression like we would have if we were talking to each other in person). I try to figure out better ways of communicating with others online, and things have gotten a bit better over the years as a result I am happy to report.

So, I guess what I'm also saying is that your beliefs may lie closer to what others believe than you know

God bless you!

~Deut

Thanks so much for your comments here! Thanks for the suggestion of the other Bible discussion sites to try out. I found one in facebook too that has reformed type people in it. I decided to continue posting in here, but to do things differently. I don't want to waste time and energy reasoning with people I already know are opposed to what I believe in. So will state that I will only reply to those who agree, so that I don't disappoint those who expect a reply when I don't want to reply to them. And make them go to the bother of replying to me when I don't plan to reply to them. That's what I've thought of so far, as to how to handle the problem.

What do you think of that?

I thought through the subject a lot through the night and this morning on Bible examples of how to deal with people and believers who don't agree on Bible subjects. I gained some wisdom through thinking it through, I believe. I remembered how Jesus spoke to crowds often - but only spoke directly to those that He knew were really willing to understand what He had preached about. I can see the wisdom of that method, in online Christian forums, too. I also thought of how the Bible says we are to be peace makers, and how we are not to be contentious (argumentative). Reasoning with others is good, and explaining Bible truths to people who may not understand them is good, according to examples I see in the Bible. Jesus and the apostles did a lot of this. But when it becomes arguing - it's time to stop, as the scriptures forbid this. And when it becomes clear that someone really doesn't want to hear my point of view on a Bible subject - I should stop discussing it with them. It is a waste of time and energy, and also not pleasing to God. Here's one verse I found that seemed pretty good as to how to handle those who don't agree on spiritual things, in the church of God on the earth:

2 Tim 2:24-26

24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,

25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.
KJV

God bless you, too!

 

[MyrtleTrees]

First of all, it is not just believing God's Word. It is specifically believing and obeying the Gospel -- repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ. And faith toward Christ means unreserved belief in the deity and finished work of Christ, as well as all that is revealed about Him in Scripture.

Secondly, we need to be very clear about the relationship of obedience to God, Christ, and His Word, and salvation. Salvation (eternal life) is God's free GIFT OF GRACE to the one who believes on Christ. At the same time those who receive Christ as Lord and Savior will strive to obey Him and His Word. But obedience FOLLOWS salvation. The first step of obedience is Christian baptism.

True, obedience follows conversion to Christ, because it can't happen without taking on the lordship of Christ, first, and receiving Him as Lord and Savior of one's life. If obedience doesn't follow - the conversion isn't real. There is obedience in involved in accepting God's gift of salvation and His lordship. That's the beginning step of having a saving relationship with God. One plans to be in obedience, the moment he accepts the lordship of Christ into his life. Without such plans or desires - no one can be saved.

 

[Duskey]

Luke 14:27
“And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.”

It Seem to get grace as Jesus disciple require bear his cross

Bearing Jesus’ cross means having faith in Him. I strongly encourage you to learn what it is you’re actually talking about because as of this point you have no idea. All you’re doing is spreading a false gospel of works salvation.

 

[Jackson123]

Bearing Jesus’ cross means having faith in Him. I strongly encourage you to learn what it is you’re actually talking about because as of this point you have no idea. All you’re doing is spreading a false gospel of works salvation.

Quote
CROSS (CROSS-BEARING) (σταυρός, G5089, pale, stake, cross).

1. Background. The word stauros comes from the Gr. verb histēmi (root sta), “to stand,” and originally meant an “upright pointed stake” or “pale.” Criminals were either tied to or impaled upon it. Stauros in the NT, however, apparently was a pole sunk into the ground with a cross-bar fastened to it giving it a “T” shape. Often the word “cross” referred only to the cross-bar.

also a symbol of the shame and humiliation which the Christian must be prepared to endure for the sake of Christ (Heb 12:2 with 13:12, 13; cf. also Ign. Trall. 11:2: Hermas, Vis. 3. 2. 1). It is a symbol, further, of the destruction of everything which interposes itself between man and God, whether it be an institutionalized religion, as in the case of Paul (Gal 6:14), or material things, as in the case of Ignatius (Rom 7:2), or whatever else there might be. The cross, too, is a symbol of that mystical union of the Christian with Christ, wherein one’s old evil impulses are crucified with Christ, and new desires and powers are released in his life (Gal 2:19b, 20; Rom 6:6).

 

[Duskey]

The word stauros comes from the Gr. verb histēmi (root sta), “to stand,” and originally meant an “upright pointed stake” or “pale.” Criminals were either tied to or impaled upon it.

So when are you planning on being impaled? I’ll be sure to bring tea and crumpets.

 

[Jackson123]

All you’re doing is spreading a false gospel of works salvation.

Have you read James 2? Do you think Jame spread false gospel of work?

James2
14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”

 

[Jackson123]

So when are you planning on being impaled? I’ll be sure to bring tea and crumpets.

If you interprate carry their cross as being impale the verse will be

And whosoever does not being impale and follow me cannot be my disciple

27 And whoever does not carry their cross and follow me cannot be my disciple.

 

[Duskey]

Have you read James 2? Do you think Jame spread false gospel of work?

James2
14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”

I don’t pigeonhole the entire Gospel in a misunderstood chapter. You however do.

 

[Blik]

Bearing Jesus’ cross means having faith in Him. I strongly encourage you to learn what it is you’re actually talking about because as of this point you have no idea. All you’re doing is spreading a false gospel of works salvation.

The false gospel that is spread is the gospel of "don't work for the Lord" and you are doing that.

 

[Jackson123]

I don’t pigeonhole the entire Gospel in a misunderstood chapter. You however do.

Do what is your interpretation of that verse

James2
14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”

 

[UnoiAmarah]

Bearing Jesus’ cross means having faith in Him.

The scriptures say nothing about picking up Jesus' cross.

And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me. Matt 10:38
And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple. Luke 14:27

 

[Duskey]

The false gospel that is spread is the gospel of "don't work for the Lord" and you are doing that.

Being a chaplain isn’t working for the Lord?