L
The devil’s attitude towards the commandments of God
- Thread starter Godcares
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
L
lenna
Guest
I am afraid you do not understand why the law was given in the first place, let alone what I might have to say about my post above
the law was not given to stick it to us, but to illustrate sin and was but a shadow of the righteousness in Christ
no, Jesus did not sin. but what do people do every time they think they need to help Him out with their busy law keeping?
Jesus is the end of the Old Law to all who will believe upon Him and receive Him into their hearts.
L
lenna
Guest
I'm going to go ahead and ask you, Happy, what you think perfect means.
this is not a trick question. in your understanding, how do you view Jesus as 'perfect'?
The 'devil' abides in fear and trembling at the decrees of God. Satan knows he is a created being under the authority of the Creator,
....remember.....he had to ask permisson from God before he could try Job......because he has no claim in the lives of believers.....Beezlebub may tramp up and down the earth, but he can only mess with reprobates.
....remember.....he had to ask permisson from God before he could try Job......because he has no claim in the lives of believers.....Beezlebub may tramp up and down the earth, but he can only mess with reprobates.
Matthew 7 (ESV)
12 "So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets. 13 "Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. 14 For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few. 15 "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16 You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit. 18 A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus you will recognize them by their fruits. 21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?' 23 And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.'
Amen. Accusing Jesus and His disciples was one of the big errors of the Pharisees and one of the main activities of Satan.
L
lenna
Guest
if he can only 'mess' with reprobates, then how did God give permission for him to 'mess' with Job? (yr example)
why are we told to watch out for the devil who seeks those to devour (written to believers) and why are believers told they are not ignorant about his 'devices'
why was he allowed to 'mess' with Paul?
the Bible seems to indicate the devil is pretty successful at what he does with BELIEVERS
deception is rampant among believers and that is the devil's best and most focused work, begun in the garden, and still carried out today and nothing in scripture indicates he has hung up his coat and is now retired
pretty sure I will not like your response, but still, telling folks the devil is basically retired if you are saved, is not true and is a disservice to those who need help in their walk
L
lenna
Guest
For Christ is the end of the law, to bring righteousness to everyone who believes. Romans 10:4
Are you so foolish? Having begun-with the Spirit are you now perfecting-yourselves with the flesh? Galatians 3:3
The old dragon had to ask permission for Job because Job was God's servant.
Reprobates are slaves to Satan and so are fair game for Beezle.
Yes the devil is very successful in his deceits. I see it every day in the forums.
Matthew
4:1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
4:2 And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.
4:3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
He 'messed' with Jesus, and he will 'mess' with us.
4:1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
4:2 And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.
4:3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
He 'messed' with Jesus, and he will 'mess' with us.
You seriously believe that Jesus -- the perfect God-Man -- broke any of God's commandments (His own commandments)????except for the ones He broke
If Christians are not clear on this fundamental issue, what should we expect from non-Christian?
Agreed. I often share a speeding ticket analogy to try to explain the law and what the Messiah came to do, along with our continued responsibility towards obedience:
1) Caught speeding = sin
2) Get a Big Ticket = wage of sin
(obeying the law at this point does nothing to unto the ticket. Need to go to court.)
3) Traffic Judge = The Most-High
4) Attorney = The Messiah
5) The Gift = Ticket/wage paid
6) Expectation Afterwards = Do not speed. Do our best to obey the law. Continuing to disobey the law makes the attorney's gift worthless. On the other hand, stop trying to do the attorney's specific job (i.e. the animal sacrifices/rituals) because that makes His gift worthless too (which is what the Galatians were trying to do). It's the equivalent of representing yourself in court, which is foolhardy.
Those things were just examples to show the specific job the attorney was going to do. He's here now so that old set of laws can be tossed out.
7) Additional gift to help us obey = A Driving Instructor (i.e. Holy Spirit)
----
I've found that The Most High's law is the only set of laws in the existence of any kingdom or government where the common sense approach of navigating the law is somehow reversed for an approach that makes one who seeks to be law-abiding "guilty" while the one who avoids actively trying "innocent". At the most basic level, one's intuition has to scream that something just isn't right with that; that we need to look deeper. At least it did for me.
If scripture proves that satan is the god of this current world, and satan's feeling towards The Most High's commandments is contempt; that scripture says satan has deceived the whole world, then wouldn't it stand to reason that he's somehow deceived the world to believe trying to obey is wrong and not trying to obey is right? Just a subtle twisting of the text here...and slight retranslation of the text there...and voila!
Just a little leaven is needed to puff up the entire living bread.
Trying to obey laws in any other government or kingdom is ok, but not The Living God's law; not in His kingdom...
Over 1 million laws in the USA alone on the shoulders of every single citizen for a multitude of scenarios and situations, but 613 laws on the shoulders of a citizen of the kingdom of Yah are unbearable...nevermind the fact that just like the USA's laws (and the laws of any other government for that matter), not every law applies to every person or for every scenario. 613 is just too many, even though only 10 really apply at all times, which hang on 2 principles of love.
On top of that, what we then run into are our brothers and sisters claiming that any attempt at obedience is using one's *own* strength, even though it's not we who live any longer but the Messiah who lives in us, and the life now living in this flesh is (supposed to be) He Himself and not us (Gal 2:20 paraphrased).
They say we're trying to work to be saved, even though we've already been saved by grace (the gift) through faith and are now told do good works over and over by the apostles to prove the faith we have in that gift (because faith without works is dead); that we're going to be judged by our works in the end, literally said by the Messiah.
It all gets muddled and confusing when one attempts to quote passages back to them to explain the harmonious relationship of it all because we've associated many of those passages with a belief system that's been hammered into our minds so strongly that explaining the practical application of what's being said in real life doesn't dispel the firmly held doctrine.
We need to be clear about the meaning of this verse. What Paul is saying is that if anyone believed (or believes) that perfect righteousness can be established (or attained) by the works of the Law, then Christ is the end of that kind of thinking.
Why? Because those who believe are justified by grace through faith and receive the imputed righteousness of Christ. And that is the only way to be deemed righteous by God.
At the same time, God requires practical righteousness from those who are deemed righteous. We are required to live (1) soberly, (2) righteously and (3) godly in this present world, which includes being zealous in doing good works (Titus 2:11-14).
L
lenna
Guest
Paul was not a reprobate and the Bible says absolutely NOTHING about the devil only going after the unsaved
how about my actual post, which I wrote in response to you seeming to state the devil does not bother the saved in Christ?
lenna, post: 4397695, member: 297965"]if he can only 'mess' with reprobates, then how did God give permission for him to 'mess' with Job? (yr example)
why are we told to watch out for the devil who seeks those to devour (written to believers) and why are believers told they are not ignorant about his 'devices'
why was he allowed to 'mess' with Paul?
the Bible seems to indicate the devil is pretty successful at what he does with BELIEVERS
deception is rampant among believers and that is the devil's best and most focused work, begun in the garden, and still carried out today and nothing in scripture indicates he has hung up his coat and is now retired
pretty sure I will not like your response, but still, telling folks the devil is basically retired if you are saved, is not true and is a disservice to those who need help in their walk
L
lenna
Guest
oh I am most clear. no worries
what is not clear in this forum, are those wanting to do a mashup between testaments
what is most tiresome in this forum, are those who assert those who point out that Christ is the end of the law, are up to no good and only quote that so that they can sin like a boatload of pagan sailors
SANTICIFICATION is not the same as JUSTIFICATION
we ought not to mix those two things up
we are immediately justified and the process of sanctification is ongoing
our standing IN Christ is immediate. our salvation is immediate. our sanctification is ongoing as long as we are alive in earthly bodies
ps: no one ever achieved righteousness by the law and it was never given for that end in the first place
Jesus fulfilled those OT rules, bylaws, rituals, etc. Thy became null and void. It is vile to believe His Atonement is not complete.
Galatians
3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
L
lenna
Guest
look
you have been 'picking' on me ever since I said Lordship salvation is not biblical
nothing is going to change the fact that Lordship salvation is not biblical and nothing is going to make me more saved or more aware of my own frail nature then already is in effect
the reason that Jesus can take our place to begin with is because HE IS ALREADY LORD.
and how do you know whether or not I do the things He says we should do? the Bible is also clear that no amount of works saves us and the works God has in mind, for one thing, is our being conformed to the image of Christ
lordship salivation is a ridiculous term. no one is saved by calling Christ lord. we are saved when we call on His name...the Messiah was promised...not the Lord Messiah
ANYONE who has accepted Christ and has the Holy Spirit indwelling them, will begin to understand the lordship of Christ and frankly, with all I know about churches and the Christians in them, I daresay that many many call Jesus Lord but they would be the ones to whom He would say
why do you call me Lord but do not do the things I say?
Jesus does not tell us to call Him lord there. He simply asks why they are calling Him Lord.
that's deep though I guess since so many are hung up on words and think saying the right thing cuts it
as far as Christ breaking the law goes, yes He did. but to illustrate the heart of the law and if you cannot find or do not know about those things, then reread the NT and why am I being so abrupt with you? you do not seem able to grasp what I am saying and would like to put some charges at my feet
two things there. I am not your responsibility and 2, those charges are false
L
lenna
Guest
by gum I think I will create a thread about when Jesus 'broke the rules' 
coming to a forum near you soon
to be sure, it will be seen as other than intended by some here
coming to a forum near you soon
to be sure, it will be seen as other than intended by some here