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2Early in the morning He came again to the temple. All the people came to Him, and He sat down and taught them. 3The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in adultery, and placing her in the midst 4they said to Him, “Teacher, this woman has been caught in the act of adultery.
Jesus is in the temple teaching.
Jesus is in the temple teaching.
We must obey God not men. Acts 5:29
Therefore we must pay much closer attention to what we have heard lest we drift away from it. Heb 2:1
Every Word of God proves true. He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him. Do not add to His Words lest He rebuke you and you be found a liar. Prov 30:5-6
But as for you, speak the things that are consistent with sound doctrine. Titus 2:1
He must hold firm to the trustworthy Word as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it. Titus 1:9
I haven't argued; I've posted Scripture to correct the heresy. I have been faithful to God seeking His approval.
I pointed out the false doctrine, encouraged repentance, encouraged taking it to God, and posted Scripture (which is absolute) that proved wrong the false and dangerous theories.
Seriously, there are no grey areas here, Scripture is clear.
If you don't like me clinging to the Word of God then you're really going to hate Jesus.
Jesus stooped down and with His finger wrote on the ground.
Are you going to attest that there was no sand on the grounds of the temple?
On what grounds would you make such a claim?
Your argument is with Scripture. Red x it
Are you going to attest that there was no sand on the grounds of the temple?
On what grounds would you make such a claim?
Your argument is with Scripture. Red x it
The temple was built on a pretty substantial platform base of stone. You can still see the temple mount today. It's stone. Jesus is God, He taught in the temple.
I think it is dangerous to say that Jesus broke the law. Remember, our salvation depends on his righteous fulfilment of every part of the law - every jot and tittle. If the answer lies in priorities, why did Moses nearly die in Exodus 4 for not circumcising his son? He was obeying God in going to Egypt, but had neglected one of the ritual aspects of the law, and nearly died for it - only saved by his wife.
Exodus 20 lays out the 10 commandments, but Leviticus 12 outlines a ritual aspect of the law - circumcision on the 8th day. So what if the day for circumcision falls on a Sabbath? Is circumcision work? Does obeying one law mean disobeying the other?
Exodus 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
Leviticus 12:1 - 3
And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying, 2 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a woman have conceived seed, and born a man child: then she shall be unclean seven days; according to the days of the separation for her infirmity shall she be unclean. 3 And in the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised.
Jesus provides the answer in John 7:21-24
21 Jesus answered and said unto them, I have done one work, and ye all marvel. 22 Moses therefore gave unto you circumcision; (not because it is of Moses, but of the fathers; ) and ye on the sabbath day circumcise a man. 23 If a man on the sabbath day receive circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be broken; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day? 24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
My understanding is that the Sabbath was to be kept holy, and circumcision was a symbol of the man (and Israel) being holy - in a covenant with God. So circumcision is not regular work - it is a form of worship and obedience to God. And if circumcision healed part of the male of his uncircumcision and so was not regular work, how much more was healing the entire man not regular work, and therefore appropriate for the Sabbath.
Exodus 20 lays out the 10 commandments, but Leviticus 12 outlines a ritual aspect of the law - circumcision on the 8th day. So what if the day for circumcision falls on a Sabbath? Is circumcision work? Does obeying one law mean disobeying the other?
Exodus 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
Leviticus 12:1 - 3
And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying, 2 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a woman have conceived seed, and born a man child: then she shall be unclean seven days; according to the days of the separation for her infirmity shall she be unclean. 3 And in the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised.
Jesus provides the answer in John 7:21-24
21 Jesus answered and said unto them, I have done one work, and ye all marvel. 22 Moses therefore gave unto you circumcision; (not because it is of Moses, but of the fathers; ) and ye on the sabbath day circumcise a man. 23 If a man on the sabbath day receive circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be broken; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day? 24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
My understanding is that the Sabbath was to be kept holy, and circumcision was a symbol of the man (and Israel) being holy - in a covenant with God. So circumcision is not regular work - it is a form of worship and obedience to God. And if circumcision healed part of the male of his uncircumcision and so was not regular work, how much more was healing the entire man not regular work, and therefore appropriate for the Sabbath.
Really?
Is this what you want to be known for when your works go on the altar? Is this gold or is it straw?
So, with all the temple servants-- even if there's a dusting of sand blown or tracked in. would the stone that Jesus was standing on be gone?
The stone of the temple (mount) is still there today.
What are you trying to accomplish?
We know Jesus always taught in the temple.
Jesus answered him, “I have spoken openly to the world. I have always taught in synagogues and in the temple, where all Jews come together. I have said nothing in secret. John 18:20
So what is this...?
I am not sure what you are implying, here when you say:
" those who insist Jesus was sinless and never broke any portion of the law?"
The word of God tells us Jesus was sinless. The context what Jesus did by healing on the " Sabbath " in Luke 13:10-17
Jesus healed a women who was suffering an infirmity placed on her by Satan. Jesus saw this. For 18 years this women suffered. Jesus said (i am paraphrasing) You care more about an ox or a donkey than this daughter of Abraham who she should not be loosed this day , the Sabbath day? Jesus Did what God expected HIM to do remember Jesus did nothing without the Fathers approval and HE did on the Sabbath what God has always done on the Sabbath Healed and saved and delivered. That is normative. The Pharisees used the law to control not set free, to keep bound and sick not heal. What provides more glory to God? healing a women after 18 years of being bound by the devil? Or un-tie a donkey to water on the Sabbath ?
" those who insist Jesus was sinless and never broke any portion of the law?"
The word of God tells us Jesus was sinless. The context what Jesus did by healing on the " Sabbath " in Luke 13:10-17
Jesus healed a women who was suffering an infirmity placed on her by Satan. Jesus saw this. For 18 years this women suffered. Jesus said (i am paraphrasing) You care more about an ox or a donkey than this daughter of Abraham who she should not be loosed this day , the Sabbath day? Jesus Did what God expected HIM to do remember Jesus did nothing without the Fathers approval and HE did on the Sabbath what God has always done on the Sabbath Healed and saved and delivered. That is normative. The Pharisees used the law to control not set free, to keep bound and sick not heal. What provides more glory to God? healing a women after 18 years of being bound by the devil? Or un-tie a donkey to water on the Sabbath ?
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Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath. He was proclaiming that God meant the sabbath for good not evil and to ignore the sick or needy is considered morally sinful.
The Lord of the Sabbath set the true example. And the Pharisees often accused him of blasphemy. They wanted to stone him for doing such acts that Jesus did publicly that also proclaimed of His divinity in the God head.
Remember when he forgave the sins of a sick man in front of the Pharisees? Only God can do that and everyone there understood the message Jesus proclaimed through his actions.
The Lord of the Sabbath set the true example. And the Pharisees often accused him of blasphemy. They wanted to stone him for doing such acts that Jesus did publicly that also proclaimed of His divinity in the God head.
Remember when he forgave the sins of a sick man in front of the Pharisees? Only God can do that and everyone there understood the message Jesus proclaimed through his actions.
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L
congratulations on causing this thread to go so far off the rails it may never come back
oh the Holy Spirit does lead us into all truth, but I have to wonder what spirit works so hard at calling others heretics when they either do not understand what is written or they have personally decided who is or is not a heretic
I won't be replying to you again
you are divisive and not at all helpful
oh the Holy Spirit does lead us into all truth, but I have to wonder what spirit works so hard at calling others heretics when they either do not understand what is written or they have personally decided who is or is not a heretic
I won't be replying to you again
you are divisive and not at all helpful
L
Jesus stooped down and with His finger wrote on the ground.
Are you going to attest that there was no sand on the grounds of the temple?
On what grounds would you make such a claim?
Your argument is with Scripture. Red x it
Are you going to attest that there was no sand on the grounds of the temple?
On what grounds would you make such a claim?
Your argument is with Scripture. Red x it
I don't think anything will make a dent with this one
she seems more eager to condemn than even try to listen and is obviously mistaken about the temple and the woman and what transpired
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L
1. You will first have to learn Hebrew then the Talmud to understand anything that’s going on between the Pharisees and Jesus.
2. Pharisees includes both righteous G-d fearing Jews and also corrupt Jews. But because they were leaders and some were heretical Jesus had rebuked them. For we know many Pharisees that also believed in Jesus.
3. Just so you know I’m not crazy and the NT is a jewish text, Jesus brings down that “circumcision” is permitted on Shabbat (I.e. cutting foreskin or bleeding are 2 of 39 Biblical Forms of “melacha” - creative work). Hebrew is very rich and there are various types of work. Proof that all Jews and Jesus agree to this law that Shabbat can be broken for we are also commanded on the 8th day to circumcise a boy. So which law is heavier? That’s great explained in the Talmud as well as Jesus brings it down
4. Saving a life mean and you break all Shabbat laws if needed because life isn’t much greater. HOWEVER some Pharisees who were “legalistic” like “SOME CHAREDI’s” in the Orthodox world, wouldn’t even break Shabbat to save a life. Jesus would rebuke these same type of Jews today but most Jews know to break Shabbat for a life.
5. Therefore it is a given that if physical life can be saved then a spiritual life can be saved since that’s all the more greater! And Shabbat is a very spiritual day too, this Jesus did NOT break Shabbat according to the Torah but SOME (NOT ALL) Pharisees did not like this because they were “overly religious” and looked passed the meaning or “purpose” of G-d’s PERFECT (NOT OLD) Torah.
I hope that makes sense You don’t learn this in Sunday school sadly and because they don’t know and just ignore the fact that there is so much to know from the Torah before understanding this occurrence
2. Pharisees includes both righteous G-d fearing Jews and also corrupt Jews. But because they were leaders and some were heretical Jesus had rebuked them. For we know many Pharisees that also believed in Jesus.
3. Just so you know I’m not crazy and the NT is a jewish text, Jesus brings down that “circumcision” is permitted on Shabbat (I.e. cutting foreskin or bleeding are 2 of 39 Biblical Forms of “melacha” - creative work). Hebrew is very rich and there are various types of work. Proof that all Jews and Jesus agree to this law that Shabbat can be broken for we are also commanded on the 8th day to circumcise a boy. So which law is heavier? That’s great explained in the Talmud as well as Jesus brings it down
4. Saving a life mean and you break all Shabbat laws if needed because life isn’t much greater. HOWEVER some Pharisees who were “legalistic” like “SOME CHAREDI’s” in the Orthodox world, wouldn’t even break Shabbat to save a life. Jesus would rebuke these same type of Jews today but most Jews know to break Shabbat for a life.
5. Therefore it is a given that if physical life can be saved then a spiritual life can be saved since that’s all the more greater! And Shabbat is a very spiritual day too, this Jesus did NOT break Shabbat according to the Torah but SOME (NOT ALL) Pharisees did not like this because they were “overly religious” and looked passed the meaning or “purpose” of G-d’s PERFECT (NOT OLD) Torah.
I hope that makes sense
You don’t learn this in Sunday school sadly and because they don’t know and just ignore the fact that there is so much to know from the Torah before understanding this occurrence
I'm happy for you that you are happy
there is no need to go and study the Talmud. the scripture makes plain the intent of the religious sects and especially the Pharisees
I learned exactly that in Sunday School and even from the pulpit, thank you
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1. You will first have to learn Hebrew then the Talmud to understand anything that’s going on between the Pharisees and Jesus.
2. Pharisees includes both righteous G-d fearing Jews and also corrupt Jews. But because they were leaders and some were heretical Jesus had rebuked them. For we know many Pharisees that also believed in Jesus.
3. Just so you know I’m not crazy and the NT is a jewish text, Jesus brings down that “circumcision” is permitted on Shabbat (I.e. cutting foreskin or bleeding are 2 of 39 Biblical Forms of “melacha” - creative work). Hebrew is very rich and there are various types of work. Proof that all Jews and Jesus agree to this law that Shabbat can be broken for we are also commanded on the 8th day to circumcise a boy. So which law is heavier? That’s great explained in the Talmud as well as Jesus brings it down
4. Saving a life mean and you break all Shabbat laws if needed because life isn’t much greater. HOWEVER some Pharisees who were “legalistic” like “SOME CHAREDI’s” in the Orthodox world, wouldn’t even break Shabbat to save a life. Jesus would rebuke these same type of Jews today but most Jews know to break Shabbat for a life.
5. Therefore it is a given that if physical life can be saved then a spiritual life can be saved since that’s all the more greater! And Shabbat is a very spiritual day too, this Jesus did NOT break Shabbat according to the Torah but SOME (NOT ALL) Pharisees did not like this because they were “overly religious” and looked passed the meaning or “purpose” of G-d’s PERFECT (NOT OLD) Torah.
I hope that makes sense You don’t learn this in Sunday school sadly and because they don’t know and just ignore the fact that there is so much to know from the Torah before understanding this occurrence
2. Pharisees includes both righteous G-d fearing Jews and also corrupt Jews. But because they were leaders and some were heretical Jesus had rebuked them. For we know many Pharisees that also believed in Jesus.
3. Just so you know I’m not crazy and the NT is a jewish text, Jesus brings down that “circumcision” is permitted on Shabbat (I.e. cutting foreskin or bleeding are 2 of 39 Biblical Forms of “melacha” - creative work). Hebrew is very rich and there are various types of work. Proof that all Jews and Jesus agree to this law that Shabbat can be broken for we are also commanded on the 8th day to circumcise a boy. So which law is heavier? That’s great explained in the Talmud as well as Jesus brings it down
4. Saving a life mean and you break all Shabbat laws if needed because life isn’t much greater. HOWEVER some Pharisees who were “legalistic” like “SOME CHAREDI’s” in the Orthodox world, wouldn’t even break Shabbat to save a life. Jesus would rebuke these same type of Jews today but most Jews know to break Shabbat for a life.
5. Therefore it is a given that if physical life can be saved then a spiritual life can be saved since that’s all the more greater! And Shabbat is a very spiritual day too, this Jesus did NOT break Shabbat according to the Torah but SOME (NOT ALL) Pharisees did not like this because they were “overly religious” and looked passed the meaning or “purpose” of G-d’s PERFECT (NOT OLD) Torah.
I hope that makes sense
You don’t learn this in Sunday school sadly and because they don’t know and just ignore the fact that there is so much to know from the Torah before understanding this occurrence
L
I would agree that the law was not written for some to condemn others. the law was given for this reason:
19Why then was the law given? It was added because of transgressions, until the arrival of the seed to whom the promise referred. It was administered through angels by a mediator. 20A mediator is unnecessary, however, for only one party; but God is one.
21Is the law, then, opposed to the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come from the law. 22But the Scripture pronounces all things confined by sin, so that by faith in Jesus Christ the promise might be given to those who believe.
23Before this faith came, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. 24So the law became our guardian to lead us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25Now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.
Galatians 3
further:
10 For since the law has but a shadow of the good things to come instead of the true form of these realities, it can never, by the same sacrifices that are continually offered every year, make perfect those who draw near. 2 Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, since the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have any consciousness of sins? 3 But in these sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. 4 For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.
so we see from scripture the law was never meant to be the end or to create perfection as no human being has ever been able to keep all of it, hence the thousands of animals slaughtered as sacrifices for sins committed
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Exactly... it's like a person dying and the medical personnel following some bloated protocols and letting the person bleed out (Law) vs neglecting the protocol in order to give first aid (what Jesus did). The underlying intent of the protocols was for peoples' sakes, to order helping, not to delay help so that people die. And Jesus, being the top expert, brought in an improved "protocol", so people get help better and faster. The full "protocol" is down to, and satisfied by, 1. "love God" and 2. "love your neighbor".
Hebrews 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
Hebrews 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
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