When Jesus 'broke the rules'

[oldethennew]

This question leads my mind to the story about the women caught in adultery that said according to Mosaic law, she should be stoned
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What Jesus did, after they tried to trip him up has always been a little baffling to me until, I heard someone else explain the verses in a different way.
Jesus pretended like he didn’t hear them and starting writing in the sand. Anything written in sand will disappear when the wind comes.

In a nutshell, the law was not written to point the finger at others wrongdoings, it was written for personal growth within.

....................................................
first of all,
LEV. 20:10.
And (the man that commits adultery) with another man's wife, even he that commits adultery
with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.
(((BOTH))) it takes (((TWO))) to 'commit 'ADULTERY'...

Jesus will not partake of this 'SHAM trial', because, one of the 'adulterers is MISSING, (the MAN)' (HELL-OH).
in first century Judaism, 'adultery' was a 'female crime'!!!
draw your own conclusion's...

 

[SoulWeaver]

As to why I do not trust the Talmud. It was these oral interpretations that probably led to such disconnect from the basics of the Mosaic law.

Just now, I am reading a book about resurrection accounts, and while explaining the historical circumstances, it cited Talmud "Any evidence which a woman gives is not valid" as beliefs of the Jews of the day, and Josephus confirming it. So Mary Magdalene and the rest of the women's testimony about the risen Jesus, according to the Talmud, should have gone down the drain and been considered invalid and a fabrication... women were not acceptable as legal witnesses in Jewish court, their views were very Muslim like in that regard.

 

[lenna]

....................................................
first of all,
LEV. 20:10.
And (the man that commits adultery) with another man's wife, even he that commits adultery
with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.
(((BOTH))) it takes (((TWO))) to 'commit 'ADULTERY'...

Jesus will not partake of this 'SHAM trial', because, one of the 'adulterers is MISSING, (the MAN)' (HELL-OH).
in first century Judaism, 'adultery' was a 'female crime'!!!
draw your own conclusion's...

well Jesus did not invoke the law

instead, he said that the one without sin should cast the first stone

he didn't even ask about the missing male in the equation

When they continued to question Him, He straightened up and said to them, “Let him who is without sin among you be the first to cast a stone at her. John 8:7

this would be a far reaching condemnation of the 'judges' rather than a direct interpretation of law...which to be sure, all parties would have been in full knowledge of

 

[soggykitten]

Jesus was in the temple. The temple is made of stone. Jesus was writing (with the finger of God) on stone. No sand.
((Just like the 10 Commandments were written in stone by the finger of God.))

If that were true with regard to the woman caught in adultery, Jesus would have then stepped aside after he used his finger and drew in the sand stone, and let her be stoned to death.
He didn't. Instead he challenged her accusers that the first to be without sin cast that first stone at her.
John 8
But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives.[a] 2 Early in the morning he came to the temple courts again. All the people came to him, and he sat down and began to teach[b] them. 3 The experts in the law[c] and the Pharisees[d] brought a woman who had been caught committing adultery. They made her stand in front of them 4 and said to Jesus,[e] “Teacher, this woman was caught in the very act of adultery. 5 In the law Moses commanded us to stone to death[f] such women.[g] What then do you say?” 6 (Now they were asking this in an attempt to trap him, so that they could bring charges against[h] him.)[i] Jesus bent down and wrote on the ground with his finger.[j] 7 When they persisted in asking him, he stood up straight[k] and replied,[l] “Whoever among you is guiltless[m] may be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8 Then[n] he bent over again and wrote on the ground.
9 Now when they heard this, they began to drift away one at a time, starting with the older ones,[o] until Jesus was left alone with the woman standing before him. 10 Jesus stood up straight[p] and said to her, “Woman,[q] where are they? Did no one condemn you?” 11 She replied, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said, “I do not condemn you either. Go, and from now on do not sin any more.”]][r]

 

[lenna]

Just now, I am reading a book about resurrection accounts, and while explaining the historical circumstances, it cited Talmud "Any evidence which a woman gives is not valid" as beliefs of the Jews of the day, and Josephus confirming it. So Mary Magdalene and the rest of the women's testimony about the risen Jesus, according to the Talmud, should have gone down the drain and been considered invalid and a fabrication... women were not acceptable as legal witnesses in Jewish court, their views were very Muslim like in that regard.

can you imagine that? and yet Jesus appeared to Mary first

this is a precious revelation of how God can just cut through all the stuff that bulls do inna field, and reveal His heart to women

we are accepted and beloved

 

[soggykitten]

What you profess is in conflict with what God says, that makes you wrong; it's heresy. The Sabbath was not an ordinance, it preceeded the law and is spoken of in Genesis. The Sabbath has nothing to do with works of righteousness hoping to attain Salvation...that's heresy.

________________
6Since therefore it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly received the good news failed to enter because of disobedience, 7again he appoints a certain day, “Today,” saying through David so long afterward, in the words already quoted,
“Today, if you hear His voice, do not harden your hearts.” Heb 4

8For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken of another day later on. 9So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God, 10for whoever has entered God’s rest has also rested from his works as God did from His. Heb 4

11Let us therefore strive to enter that rest, so that no one may fall by the same sort of disobedience. Heb 4

There are 4 witnesses against what you profess. And Jesus' quote is the 5th:
Jesus said, "I WILL give you rest."

It's future tense; Jesus has NOT YET given this rest. Hebrews witnesses with Jesus that the rest is yet to come.
______________________

The Sabbath has nothing to do with works of the flesh in trying to obtain righteousness. The Sabbath is simply rest, as in not doing work, not doing your own pleasure, but drawing near to God.

The Sabbath is a day of rest holy to God and therefore also holy to His people. The Sabbath precedes the law, is not an ordinance, and has nothing to do with works; it's simply God ordained rest in Him.

God was not doing works of the flesh or resting from works of the flesh. To say that God rested from works of the flesh is absurd.

Take it to the Lord.

You've fallen into twisted Scripture. Seek the Lord on this because you are preaching heresy.

Are you Roman Catholic?
I ask because prior to and after the Reformation, what are today called Protestants, Protest-ants with regard to RCC doctrine, Protestants were considered to believe in heresy.

Maybe rather than be so condemning and immediately judgmental of our brother/sister, perhaps consider they were not aware God's laws began in Genesis as did the Sabbath day of rest.

 

[tourist]

It's the Word of God that YOU DISREGARD in favor of your fanciful man-u-factured, made-up HERESY.

YOU PREACH HERESY. REPENT.

For starters, this member is offering her own perception and is not at all preaching. I can't see a single thing that was posted by this member that is heresy. Only sinners need to repent, no sin committed here.

 

[tourist]

take a chill pill. your behavior is obnoxious. I created this thread for DISCUSSION and ideas. not for someone to come along and take it over and accuse others

par for the course though I guess. anytime someone brings something to the table that requires thought, someone comes along and screams so that the truth is forgotten

Regarding the table, there has yet been mention of the usual thread derail of food. Food for thought perhaps.

 

[soggykitten]

Hebrews 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

I agree with you - the Pharisees didn't understand the reason because it's spiritually discerned. Sabbath was about finding rest from one's own dead works in God. All they could see with the carnal eyes was "don't taste, don't touch, don't do this on such and such day". They thought they were made for Sabbath, when in reality Sabbath as a holiday was made for man's sake to foretell the things to come. They didn't understand the reality Sabbath was foreshadowing when they saw it in Jesus, and were (are?) still clinging to a shadow form of godliness.

Many of the dictates laid down by the temple elders prior to Jesus were of their own imagining. They conflated their iron fist command over the people with God's laws.
Which is why I believe we have in Jesus a witness as to the difference.
The Pharisaical law said one would be put to death being found to work on the sabbath.
Jesus , who is lord of the Sabbath, the lord that declared the sabbath and made it holy, healed on the sabbath. Which is why those elders of the temple thought to catch him in their trap when accusing him of breaking sabbath law in that way.

The law said the woman accused of adultery should be stoned for her sin. Jesus challenged men intent on fulfilling that law to cast the first stone at her if any one of them were without sin. She lived.

It's odd really. There are teachers out there whose students we likely encounter in here that teach the laws of God, not any one of them, apply today to the Christian. There are those who say certain of the laws of God still apply which is why he tells us in his own words he wrote them in our hearts so that we would not be separated from them.
All in all we arrive in pretty much any Christian Bible Discussion forum and are at odds as to what is true.
And I think that arises for the same reason the conflict between the legalists of the temple and Jesus occurred. Because mere mortals think they have to be right in order to be saved.

 

[soggykitten]

Regarding the table, there has yet been mention of the usual thread derail of food. Food for thought perhaps.

I'm thinking of lasagna with a side of Caesar salad.
Hungry? Me? Nooooo.

 

[tourist]

I'm thinking of lasagna with a side of Caesar salad.
Hungry? Me? Nooooo.

We just had pizza for dinner. It was scrumptious. I love lasagna and salads. Now, I'm getting hungry again.

 

[soggykitten]

We just had pizza for dinner. It was scrumptious. I love lasagna and salads. Now, I'm getting hungry again.

I'm munching a Caesar salad.
Love pizza. Have you the pizza brand Screaming Sicilian in the stores there?
One of the best frozen pizzas I've found. Generous on the toppings too. I usually have to add to but not with that one.

 

[lenna]

For starters, this member is offering her own perception and is not at all preaching. I can't see a single thing that was posted by this member that is heresy. Only sinners need to repent, no sin committed here.

yeah we covered that one

even though I should be used to the forum, I was still somewhat put off by what I read when I came back this am

there was no heresy at all

 

[SheepMary]

congratulations on causing this thread to go so far off the rails it may never come back

oh the Holy Spirit does lead us into all truth, but I have to wonder what spirit works so hard at calling others heretics when they either do not understand what is written or they have personally decided who is or is not a heretic

I won't be replying to you again

you are divisive and not at all helpful

Oh stop it. The thing was derailed when you posted it.
Jesus kept every commandment & ordinance and broke none of them. If He had broken any He would be a sinner and not an acceptable sacrifice to redeem His people from their sins. Everyone everywhere would go to hell, Jesus included. He would also not be God. God is incapable of sin.

I use the Word of God to post true doctrine. Be grateful.
I am not a people pleaser who is content to let people live (and die) in deceit-- Jesus ONLY saves His believers.
Holy Spirit leads us to all truth; there are no theories; there is one truth.

Heresy is heresy is heresy. You can't make a lie into the truth. Call it what it is and shovel it into the pile with the rest of the poo.

I am far from divisive, your accusation is way, way off base. I endure sound doctrine, protect the sheep, and speak truth from God's Word. You with your anything goes attitude is divisive and destructive. There is ONE truth.

Your whole thread is an insult to God, who cannot sin. Jesus did no wrong; He is sinless. Jesus kept the law and thereby fulfilled it. He is unable to sin because HE IS GOD.

And why of all things are you are worried about a thread but NOT the integrity of the eternal Holy Word of God which has the power to save your soul?

Think about that. Then repent. God bless you.

 

[SheepMary]

one thing though

I never called Jesus a sinner

maybe if you actually read instead of blowing off the top of your head all the time, you would understand what others write

there is no heresy in this thread.

A law breaker is a sinner. One who breaks the law has committed sin. One who does not keep the commandments/ordinance is a law breaker aka sinner.
Your theory that Jesus did not keep the commandments/ordinances means that you think He's sinned because failure to keep the commandments/ordinance is sin.

And Jesus wrote in the temple as He taught in the temple. The temple is stone.

Just take correction and move on. Stop shooting the messenger; I've proven all with Scripture and it's God whom you're arguing with not me. Think about that. Then repent. God bless you.

 

[SheepMary]

If that were true with regard to the woman caught in adultery, Jesus would have then stepped aside after he used his finger and drew in the sand stone, and let her be stoned to death.
He didn't. Instead he challenged her accusers that the first to be without sin cast that first stone at her.
John 8
But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives.[a] 2 Early in the morning he came to the temple courts again. All the people came to him, and he sat down and began to teach[b] them. 3 The experts in the law[c] and the Pharisees[d] brought a woman who had been caught committing adultery. They made her stand in front of them 4 and said to Jesus,[e] “Teacher, this woman was caught in the very act of adultery. 5 In the law Moses commanded us to stone to death[f] such women.[g] What then do you say?” 6 (Now they were asking this in an attempt to trap him, so that they could bring charges against[h] him.)[i] Jesus bent down and wrote on the ground with his finger.[j] 7 When they persisted in asking him, he stood up straight[k] and replied,[l] “Whoever among you is guiltless[m] may be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8 Then[n] he bent over again and wrote on the ground.
9 Now when they heard this, they began to drift away one at a time, starting with the older ones,[o] until Jesus was left alone with the woman standing before him. 10 Jesus stood up straight[p] and said to her, “Woman,[q] where are they? Did no one condemn you?” 11 She replied, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said, “I do not condemn you either. Go, and from now on do not sin any more.”]][r]

2Early in the morning he came again to the temple. All the people came to Him, and He sat down and taught them. 3The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in adultery, and placing her in the midst 4they said to him, “Teacher, this woman has been caught in the act of adultery. John 1

Jesus answered him, “I have spoken openly to the world. I have always taught in synagogues and in the temple, where all Jews come together. I have said nothing in secret. John 18:20

 

[SheepMary]

For starters, this member is offering her own perception and is not at all preaching. I can't see a single thing that was posted by this member that is heresy. Only sinners need to repent, no sin committed here.

Boloney. You didn't read it. She spoke conjecture about the Sabbath. Go back and find the original post and my original reply to it.
My doctrine is sound; she was proven wrong by 5 Scriptural references. To God alone be glory.

 

[SheepMary]

Are you Roman Catholic?
I ask because prior to and after the Reformation, what are today called Protestants, Protest-ants with regard to RCC doctrine, Protestants were considered to believe in heresy.

Maybe rather than be so condemning and immediately judgmental of our brother/sister, perhaps consider they were not aware God's laws began in Genesis as did the Sabbath day of rest.

I didn't condemn anyone; I posted SCRIPTURE which shined the light of God's Word on the heresy she posted.
There is nothing condemning about posting the Holy Word of God in response to and to quench heresy.
Therefore we must pay much closer attention to what we have heard lest we drift away from it. Heb 2:1

Who's side are you on? Choose Jesus - He is truth.

catholic? So not.

 

[SheepMary]

You can? Where? They tempke was so utterly destroyed Josephus states when he went after the destruction there was no sign it was ever there. We have many eyewitness accounts to this truth

2Early in the morning He came again to the temple. All the people came to Him, and He sat down and taught them. 3The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in adultery, and placing her in the midst 4they said to him, “Teacher, this woman has been caught in the act of adultery. John 1

Jesus answered him, “I have spoken openly to the world. I have always taught in synagogues and in the temple, where all Jews come together. I have said nothing in secret. John 18:20

The temple was built on the stone base; the temple mount stands today. Here are plenty of pics: https://www.google.com/search?q=tem...ECC0QBA&biw=1280&bih=579#imgrc=zjqdNCwHgSv_IM

 

[SheepMary]

So it is a law to work on the Sabbath? You would think that a Christian would know that any other Christian would tell of how the rule was broken so the law could be kept.

Have you taken Christ into your heart? Christ in the heart works for peace.

Really? You're uninformed.
Christ never broke "a rule" or a law. Jesus is the law. If Jesus had broken the law/ordinance it would make Him unacceptable as a sacrifice. To break the law/ordinance is sin. If Jesus broke the law we all go to hell.

As I've quoted elsewhere Jesus told us that it's not a sin to do good on the Sabbath.
It is against the law to work on the Sabbath.

The level of heresy on this chat site is very offputting. Do you people read your Holy Bibles? It's sad and tragic at the same time. God is omnipresent but yet you people don't have the truth...

Jesus never sinned. To break the law (aka rule as you called it) is sin.

Why do you people defend what is WRONG and not rejoice in the truth?
Love rejoices with truth.... Aka the peace of Christ.