Works error

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luigi

Junior Member
Dec 6, 2015
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Then you are preaching works, that you make yourself righteous, and if you do good enough god will forgive you your sins,

this is found no where in scripture my friend, if we could make ourselves righteous, as Paul said, heist came in vein,
I am affirming the Word by Paul in Romans 12:1, that it is our reasonable service to offer our bodies as living sacrifices, leaving worldly carnal desires, in order to be holy and acceptable to God. Unless you have some other interpretation for what offering our bodies as living sacrifices represents, I will then continue to affirm what I clearly see being what the Lord wants from us.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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To earn salvation? No, That would be impossible because you would have to still meet Gods standard
Do you believe there is correlation between faith and Holy life?

I mean the closer you to Jesus the more you act like, more Holy.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
If I got it wrong, then I got it wrong. I was under the impression he was claiming grace as the freedom to continue in sin, without any sin culpability. Below is a copy paste of his statemant.
"This is again virtue signalling and Paul was also accused by what your saying about those who understand grace is not licence but freedom ."
Yep he said exactly what I said.

GRACE is not license, but freedom,

he did not say we have a freedom to live in sin under grace, as you said
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
I am affirming the Word by Paul in Romans 12:1, that it is our reasonable service to offer our bodies as living sacrifices, leaving worldly carnal desires, in order to be holy and acceptable to God. Unless you have some other interpretation for what offering our bodies as living sacrifices represents, I will then continue to affirm what I clearly see being what the Lord wants from us.
Yep it is our duty

but not to be saved. Christ makes us children of God ny hid death not by our actions

you are preaching salvation by works of righteousness, not by Gods mercy
 

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2014
4,889
2,534
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While many believe that refraining from continuing to sin as doing works to attain salvation; in reality refraining from continuing to sin is to refrain from doing evil works.
Hebrews 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
 

luigi

Junior Member
Dec 6, 2015
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Do you believe there is correlation between faith and Holy life?

I mean the closer you to Jesus the more you act like, more Holy.
Good morning Jackson 123, Sorry I did not get back to you yesterday on this but I was working.
To answer your question: Yes there is an absolute correlation between faith and a Holy life.
If I believe in Jesus Christ, then I believe in what Jesus Christ believes, which is to Love God and our neighbors.
To love God and our neighbor are spiritual qualities that make one holy.
If I do love God, I would attempt to do what would please God, the first of these being to offer myself a living sacrifice by leaving my worldly carnal inclinations behind me. I would then be holy before the Lord, and acceptable (Romans 12:1). If I did not do this most basic reasonable service, I would then be carnally inclined and conformed to the world (Romans 12:2), which is enmity to the spirit (Romans 8:7).

Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
 

luigi

Junior Member
Dec 6, 2015
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Yep he said exactly what I said.

GRACE is not license, but freedom,

he did not say we have a freedom to live in sin under grace, as you said
You, as him are not completing what grace meaning freedom to you means. I know that with many people they see the grace of God as a get out of hell free card, which has the same result as a license to sin. This is hypocrisy in my view, and is why when many people see those who preach to them as carnally inclined or worse than themselves, find faith in God a joke.
 

luigi

Junior Member
Dec 6, 2015
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216
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Yep he said exactly what I said.

GRACE is not license, but freedom,

he did not say we have a freedom to live in sin under grace, as you said
Remember Jerry Falwell Junior with his sexcapades who just resigned from a Liberty Christian University; what do you think this has done to the faith of many of the students there, in addition to their families, and the rest of the world who saw this news? If you are going to preach faith in God, then have faith in God, and not some hypocrisy.
 

luigi

Junior Member
Dec 6, 2015
1,222
216
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Yep it is our duty

but not to be saved. Christ makes us children of God ny hid death not by our actions

you are preaching salvation by works of righteousness, not by Gods mercy
I do understand that no matter what work I may do to atone for my incorrect actions, that this will not bring my salvation. The reason for this is that those works will not change my carnally inclined heart towards a spiritually inclined heart. It is the Lord's grace that will conform my heart towards a spiritually inclined heart. To get there, I have to believe that Jesus Christ's message of love towards God and my neighbor is the Way there. A first step in that direction is to repent of my carnal inclinations, which is to hate these heartfelt worldly desires, which then makes me holy and acceptable to God.
Romans 12:1 to me seems to basically be taking the role of John the baptist, telling people to repent first.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
You, as him are not completing what grace meaning freedom to you means. I know that with many people they see the grace of God as a get out of hell free card, which has the same result as a license to sin. This is hypocrisy in my view, and is why when many people see those who preach to them as carnally inclined or worse than themselves, find faith in God a joke.
You only see what you want to see. So you can not hear anything we say
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
I do understand that no matter what work I may do to atone for my incorrect actions, that this will not bring my salvation. The reason for this is that those works will not change my carnally inclined heart towards a spiritually inclined heart. It is the Lord's grace that will conform my heart towards a spiritually inclined heart. To get there, I have to believe that Jesus Christ's message of love towards God and my neighbor is the Way there. A first step in that direction is to repent of my carnal inclinations, which is to hate these heartfelt worldly desires, which then makes me holy and acceptable to God.
Romans 12:1 to me seems to basically be taking the role of John the baptist, telling people to repent first.
I do not think you understand the gospel. In these words you wrote it is all about what you do or promise to do and not what Christ did. Until you focus on that and recieved his love you can not be saved and will not do what you desire to do In the firstplace

We love because he first
Loved us. Not because we pulled love out with our own power. We can not love the way God demands us to love until after we are saved
 

soggykitten

Well-known member
Jul 3, 2020
2,322
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An original definition of sin was where when someone aimed at a target and missed, it was a sin. Basically, to sin is to miss the correct target in life. As such, I can agree with your claim that failing to do good works is to miss the mark.
I've met Christians that will insist they are still sinners. :(
Here's a fun bit of Bible trivia. Did you know that Sin is the name of a city in Egypt? You'll find it mentioned in Ezekiel 30:15-16.

As pertains to your OP sin is defined by different terms throughout scripture. All pretty much signify the same thing. Missing the mark, an offense, straying from the path of righteousness.
When we were unrepentant sinners that was simply life. Unaware of the righteous path of God we lived our lives with the instruction and examples our family instilled.
When we came to Christ and repented of our sins those were put under his precious blood for all eternity and God holds them against us no more, ever.

Now, as mentioned, we have an advocate for us when we do offend God's right-ness path he's set for us. We're no longer sinners however, we're the saints within the universal church of God. That which divided us is put asunder. There is no Jew, no Greek, no American, no German, etc... we are all one in Christ. 1 Peter 3:11
 

luigi

Junior Member
Dec 6, 2015
1,222
216
63
I do not think you understand the gospel. In these words you wrote it is all about what you do or promise to do and not what Christ did. Until you focus on that and recieved his love you can not be saved and will not do what you desire to do In the firstplace

We love because he first
Loved us. Not because we pulled love out with our own power. We can not love the way God demands us to love until after we are saved
We are to repent first. That is why John the Baptist came first. It looks like the Lord knew what the deception the devil would use in the future about not needing to repent, and so sent John the Baptist that to prepare the way to Gods acceptance, one must first repent.
 

luigi

Junior Member
Dec 6, 2015
1,222
216
63
I've met Christians that will insist they are still sinners. :(
Here's a fun bit of Bible trivia. Did you know that Sin is the name of a city in Egypt? You'll find it mentioned in Ezekiel 30:15-16.

As pertains to your OP sin is defined by different terms throughout scripture. All pretty much signify the same thing. Missing the mark, an offense, straying from the path of righteousness.
When we were unrepentant sinners that was simply life. Unaware of the righteous path of God we lived our lives with the instruction and examples our family instilled.
When we came to Christ and repented of our sins those were put under his precious blood for all eternity and God holds them against us no more, ever.

Now, as mentioned, we have an advocate for us when we do offend God's right-ness path he's set for us. We're no longer sinners however, we're the saints within the universal church of God. That which divided us is put asunder. There is no Jew, no Greek, no American, no German, etc... we are all one in Christ. 1 Peter 3:11
I agree that so long as we have repented, we are then holy and acceptable before the Lord. If, however, I return to my fleshly desires from which I repented, I then do not believe that I remain holy and acceptable before the Lord.
 

soggykitten

Well-known member
Jul 3, 2020
2,322
1,369
113
I agree that so long as we have repented, we are then holy and acceptable before the Lord. If, however, I return to my fleshly desires from which I repented, I then do not believe that I remain holy and acceptable before the Lord.
That just means you've missed the mark God has set for your righteousness, or right behavior. It doesn't mean and will never mean that you are no longer in his saving grace.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
Good morning Jackson 123, Sorry I did not get back to you yesterday on this but I was working.
To answer your question: Yes there is an absolute correlation between faith and a Holy life.
If I believe in Jesus Christ, then I believe in what Jesus Christ believes, which is to Love God and our neighbors.
To love God and our neighbor are spiritual qualities that make one holy.
If I do love God, I would attempt to do what would please God, the first of these being to offer myself a living sacrifice by leaving my worldly carnal inclinations behind me. I would then be holy before the Lord, and acceptable (Romans 12:1). If I did not do this most basic reasonable service, I would then be carnally inclined and conformed to the world (Romans 12:2), which is enmity to the spirit (Romans 8:7).

Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Thanks brother, that is what I think. I myself not Holy yet, but strive for it. But some people believe, because salvation by grace not by work, than murderer. Robing bank envy not make you lose your salvation. It seem some forget by grace trough faith. Some only remember grace, forget faith.

Let me repeat, I myself not holy so I not try to judge, I wish we save only by grace, without faith, but it is not what the Bible say.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
We are to repent first. That is why John the Baptist came first. It looks like the Lord knew what the deception the devil would use in the future about not needing to repent, and so sent John the Baptist that to prepare the way to Gods acceptance, one must first repent.
Yep

But I think your interpretation of repent goes to far. You have more if you doing not something which God changed in you
 

luigi

Junior Member
Dec 6, 2015
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That just means you've missed the mark God has set for your righteousness, or right behavior. It doesn't mean and will never mean that you are no longer in his saving grace.
We are to overcome our worldly carnal inclinations. Those who don't appear in Revelation chapters 2 and 3.
 

luigi

Junior Member
Dec 6, 2015
1,222
216
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Thanks brother, that is what I think. I myself not Holy yet, but strive for it. But some people believe, because salvation by grace not by work, than murderer. Robing bank envy not make you lose your salvation. It seem some forget by grace trough faith. Some only remember grace, forget faith.

Let me repeat, I myself not holy so I not try to judge, I wish we save only by grace, without faith, but it is not what the Bible say.
I as well brother, think myself not Holy yet, but I am striving for it. It is our reasonable service.
 

luigi

Junior Member
Dec 6, 2015
1,222
216
63
Yep

But I think your interpretation of repent goes to far. You have more if you doing not something which God changed in you
We have come full circle. To repent from one's worldly carnal inclinations is the same as presenting our bodies as living sacrifices, so that we may be Holy, and acceptable by God.
You claim this being a work, but it is the Word in Romans 12:1.

Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.