Shining Light on 1 Corinthians Chapter 15

[Nehemiah6]

Clearly one’s repentance and water baptism would hold no significance without Jesus’ death, burial and resurrection.

You continue to promote your false belief that water baptism is necessary for salvation (just like the Catholic Church and some other aberrant groups). You have been shown dozens of Scripture which refute this false teaching, but you would rather hang on to it that believe the truth.

The death, burial, and resurrection of Christ are at the heart of the Gospel. They encompass the finished work of Christ for our redemption. So those who believe on the person of the Lord Jesus Christ, and His finished work are JUSTIFIED BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH. Baptism comes after that.

ROMANS 4: SINNERS ARE JUSTIFIED BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH LIKE ABRAHAM
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness...
16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,..
22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

 

[Blackpowderduelist]

For those of you who say baptism isn't a part of salvation, but still say water baptism is important, what purpose does it serve?
Remembering that Jesus was pretty down on public display. He was fairly rough on the Pharisees for all their public displayery, and he also said when doing charity give with the left hand so that the right don't know. So it would be very contradictory to his general teaching to say don't do this stuff for public display, but we change the rules for baptism.
Also the Ethiopian that Philip baptized, there was Philip, the Eunuch, and a driver. That's not really much of a public display.
Because what I read in scripture is that baptism joins you to Christ in his death. Kind of the way that Noah was saved through the water in his boat, and Moses also saved through the water in his baby boat, and Isreal was saved from bondage in Egypt by passing through the water of the red sea. Now also those who God judged in the day of Noah died in the water, and the Egyptians also judged and died in the water. Only those who God sanctified and saved passed through alive. The evil the sin the wicked died in the waters.

 

[Wansvic]

is it fair to say that your trying to fit Some of the book of Acts into the Gospel explanation of 1cor 1.15 ?

I was pointing out that Paul's comment was specifically about the FIRST thing in the gospel message that he and the group were told about. Specifics about the resurrection was the context of the entire chapter. To say Paul's initial comment in verses 1-4 prove a person need only believe in Jesus' death, burial and resurrection is not consistent with the context of the chapter.

 

[Wansvic]

Few seem to comprehend the Spiritual relevance of the water of which Jesus spoke.

And yet Jesus made a clear distinction between His water, and earthly water used for ceremonial cleansing.

Is earthly water efficacious in producing spiritual purity? I say no. What say you?

The first recorded miracle in John's gospel has Jesus changing
ceremonial cleansing water to wine, which represents His blood.

Why God chose obedience to water baptism as a vehicle for washing away one's personal sins is not relevant. What is, is individuals are commanded to submit to it in obedience.

Keep in mind that the God-inspired message that everyone was to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins was also directed to "as many as the Lord God shall call." Acts 2:39 It cannot be disputed that the Lord continues to call people and will continue to do so until Jesus returns.

Also, notice what Paul was told to do in order for his personal sins to be washed away:
"And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord. " Acts 22:16

 

[Wansvic]

My point would be that today it is 1 cor 15 1-4 that is the message we are saved by . What happens is people read the book of Acts and miss the point that its transitioning. Its a transitional book not to be ignored of course, but to understand how God is bringing about through the Acts of the apostles these transitions from the OT to NT ,to Israel , to Gentiles then the ' body ' . The Gospel is then established . The gospel of grace as we read in Paul's epistles namely.

Paul's comments below indicate that the Gentiles are fellow-heirs with the Jews by the same gospel. This truth was revealed to Paul, the apostles and the prophets by the Spirit.

Eph 3:1-7

For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,

2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to youward:

3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

 

[Wansvic]

Yes they rejected the counsel of God . They did not believe.

The scripture clearly speaks specifically to their rejecting the counsel of God by refusing to be baptized.

Luke 7:30
But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him.

 

[Wansvic]

To be baptised by John was to recognise that they were serious about their repentance and that Jesus is the only proper basis for the remission of sins .

If so, why do scriptures state that remission of sin is directly associated with water baptism?

Acts 22:16
16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Acts 2:38
...be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins

Luke 3:3
3 And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;

Luke 24:47
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Acts 19:4-5
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

 

[Wansvic]

So much to on.....I'll just tackle couple of obvious ones
1..you twisted a lot of scripture to make the verse(s) fit your view
2. The gospel has to be simple .. it is the starting place for those newly born again

'man is separated from God because of sin, Jesus Christ paid the penalty God demands to forgive sin for those believe, which brings peace with God'​

3. There is no command to be water baptized
4. Baptism for the dead is heresy, whatever state you are in when you die, that is how it remains.

Please explain how I twisted scripture. Please comment directly to what the scripture actually states. Did Paul or did he interject the word FIRST in the scripture?

Paul begins his letter by reminding the group that he declared to them the gospel by which they were saved. (verses 1-2) He goes on to point out a specific part of the gospel message that he and they received FIRST; that Jesus died for their sins, was buried and resurrected. (verses 3-4) He then delves into concepts associated with resurrection throughout the rest of the chapter.

Also, in your opinion what is the context of chapter 15?[/QUOTE]

 

[Wansvic]

Since baptize (baptizo) means to fully immerse, are you sure it does not mean in that context to immerse them in the gospel?
Context is everything.

None of the apostles was baptized in water.....except Paul who had his baptism into the Nazarene priesthood before he was called as an apostle. Jesus baptized no one. His baptism was also of the as priest and king of Nazarene priesthood.
Tertulian said it just gets you wet.

I am not against water baptism as the symbol of the old man being dead and buried and the new man come to new life. I was baptized (immersion). It just does not have a place as a commandment. The only thing Jesus said we MUST do is be born again.

So the verses Scribe posted mean nothing? They specifically state people were commanded to be water baptized. (I have bolded a specific sentence in your response and added his response below to refresh your memory. I can only conclude from your response that what you believe trumps what God says.

Consider as well Jesus statement, "He who believes and IS BAPTIZED shall be saved." (Mark 16:16)

I don't want to get into a long argument but I don't understand why anyone would say that.

Matthew 28:19 "Go ye therefore and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost"
That is a commandment.

Acts 10:48..And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.
That is a commandment.

Why do I keep reading people post that there is no commandment to baptize? I can post some others as well but this should be enough.

 

[Wansvic]

To be baptised by John was to recognise that they were serious about their repentance and that Jesus is the only proper basis for the remission of sins .

Water baptism for the remission of sins was introduced by John (Luke 3:3); however, the use of the name of the Lord Jesus associated with it was begun at Jerusalem on the Day of Pentecost. Jesus prophesied this would occur in Luke 24:47 when he opened the apostles understanding just prior to His ascension. This truth is also reflected in Paul's interaction with the Ephesus disciples in Acts 19 as well.

 

[Scribe]

Since baptize (baptizo) means to fully immerse, are you sure it does not mean in that context to immerse them in the gospel?
Context is everything.

None of the apostles was baptized in water.....except Paul who had his baptism into the Nazarene priesthood before he was called as an apostle. Jesus baptized no one. His baptism was also of the as priest and king of Nazarene priesthood.
Tertulian said it just gets you wet.

I am not against water baptism as the symbol of the old man being dead and buried and the new man come to new life. I was baptized (immersion). It just does not have a place as a commandment. The only thing Jesus said we MUST do is be born again.

Here is the context of Acts 10:48
Then answered Peter, 47Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? 48And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

It is impossible to interpret this context anything other than water baptism.

The apostles were baptized and they baptized many others while with Jesus. Jesus did not baptize but his disciples did and Jesus preached it.

Peter continued to preach it and Philip preached it when explaining things to the Ethiopean Eunuch.
Paul had the 12 disciples at Ephesus rebaptized in water after they understood the Gospel about Jesus and then he laid hands on them and they were filled with the Holy Ghost and spake in tongues showing that baptism in water and baptism in the Holy Ghost are two separate things.

There is no esoterical Baptism in Jesus Name that does not involve baptism in water taught in the scriptures.

I am curious how one would explain their interpretation of " Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, " if it is not baptizing them in water. What does that look like? "I immerse you in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit by repeating the name over you until you feel immersed? Or is it by my preaching the word to you night and day until you feel immersed? What constitutes immersing them in the Name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost? And who gets to define it since your definition of immersing someone in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost will differ from another's esoterical mystical explanation of what it means to be immersed in the Name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost.

I don't know why anyone would reject the age old orthodox interpretation that this meant baptism in water then and always has and still does.

 

[GraceAndTruth]

So the verses Scribe posted mean nothing? They specifically state people were commanded to be water baptized. (I have bolded a specific sentence in your response and added his response below to refresh your memory. I can only conclude from your response that what you believe trumps what God says.

Consider as well Jesus statement, "He who believes and IS BAPTIZED shall be saved." (Mark 16:16)

I guess you just dismissed the points I gave you on Jesus and the apostles on baptism.
Water baptism by immersion is symbolic, people get baptized to identify with the message of new life in Christ.
I was baptized but I had been born again and redeemed before that happened.
Suit yourself, if you want to add works to grace its on your head.

 

[GraceAndTruth]

Here is the context of Acts 10:48
Then answered Peter, 47Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? 48And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

It is impossible to interpret this context anything other than water baptism.

The apostles were baptized and they baptized many others while with Jesus. Jesus did not baptize but his disciples did and Jesus preached it.

Peter continued to preach it and Philip preached it when explaining things to the Ethiopean Eunuch.
Paul had the 12 disciples at Ephesus rebaptized in water after they understood the Gospel about Jesus and then he laid hands on them and they were filled with the Holy Ghost and spake in tongues showing that baptism in water and baptism in the Holy Ghost are two separate things.

There is no esoterical Baptism in Jesus Name that does not involve baptism in water taught in the scriptures.

I am curious how one would explain their interpretation of " Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, " if it is not baptizing them in water. What does that look like? "I immerse you in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit by repeating the name over you until you feel immersed? Or is it by my preaching the word to you night and day until you feel immersed? What constitutes immersing them in the Name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost? And who gets to define it since your definition of immersing someone in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost will differ from another's esoterical mystical explanation of what it means to be immersed in the Name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost.

I don't know why anyone would reject the age old orthodox interpretation that this meant baptism in water then and always has and still does.

they had received the Holy Spirit.....they were aleady saved.....
The word IMMERSE is used for other than a bath..........immerse in a good book, immersed in politics......shows an intense desire.

 

[Wansvic]

Those who teach water baptism saves need to be countered with the truth, for they are preaching a false gospel.

In Matthew 16:6–12, Jesus compared the false teaching of the Pharisees, Sadducees, and Herodians to leaven, and warned His disciples against being taken in by false teachers... because a small amount of leaven corrupts the whole lump. Paul also warned against false teachers in very strong language. You acknowledge that water baptism does not save, but think addressing the issue of adding to the gospel is somehow redundant. Do you never counter false teachings, then?

Actually to teach water baptism is not a necessary part of the gospel message is to state something contrary to what Jesus clearly said. "He who believes and IS BAPTIZED shall be saved. (Mark 16:16)

 

[Scribe]

they had received the Holy Spirit.....they were aleady saved.....
The word IMMERSE is used for other than a bath..........immerse in a good book, immersed in politics......shows an intense desire.

Yes the had just received the baptism of the Holy Ghost. Evidenced by speaking in tongues (Peter said they knew they had received the same gift as them because they heard them speak with tongues) No one is questioning whether they were saved. The point being made here is that after this even he still commands that they be baptized in WATER as is obvious by his words "Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized,"

I agree that they were already saved but you must also concede that they were baptized in WATER after this statement by Peter ... And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.

 

[throughfaith]

The scripture clearly speaks specifically to their rejecting the counsel of God by refusing to be baptized.

Luke 7:30
But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him.

So what we learn from that is ' But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him.'

 

[throughfaith]

I was pointing out that Paul's comment was specifically about the FIRST thing in the gospel message that he and the group were told about. Specifics about the resurrection was the context of the entire chapter. To say Paul's initial comment in verses 1-4 prove a person need only believe in Jesus' death, burial and resurrection is not consistent with the context of the chapter.

No . He says that of first ( importance) thing was the Gosepl. its the most important thing. He would have taught other things . But the first thing was the Gospel.

 

[Wansvic]

You continue to promote your false belief that water baptism is necessary for salvation (just like the Catholic Church and some other aberrant groups). You have been shown dozens of Scripture which refute this false teaching, but you would rather hang on to it that believe the truth.

The death, burial, and resurrection of Christ are at the heart of the Gospel. They encompass the finished work of Christ for our redemption. So those who believe on the person of the Lord Jesus Christ, and His finished work are JUSTIFIED BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH. Baptism comes after that.

ROMANS 4: SINNERS ARE JUSTIFIED BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH LIKE ABRAHAM
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness...
16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,..
22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

I provide scripture that states emphatically that ones sins are washed away upon obedience to God's command to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. (John 3:5, Acts 22:19, 2:38) Jews, Gentiles, Samaritans, the Ephesus disciples experiences speak to this truth as well as others.

Your statement that I have been provided with dozens of scriptures that refute it may be what you believe. However, what I see and what you see are entirely different.

As far as the scripture above concerning Abraham's faith being accounted for righteousness, consider the implications of a corresponding scripture. James verse 21-23 provides further information of exactly what was noted in Romans 4. Faith is made perfect through one's obedience to God's commands:

James 2:17-23
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

 

[Wansvic]

I guess you just dismissed the points I gave you on Jesus and the apostles on baptism.
Water baptism by immersion is symbolic, people get baptized to identify with the message of new life in Christ.
I was baptized but I had been born again and redeemed before that happened.
Suit yourself, if you want to add works to grace its on your head.

Your response above has nothing to do with the comment of mine concerning your original statement below:

"I am not against water baptism as the symbol of the old man being dead and buried and the new man come to new life. I was baptized (immersion). It just does not have a place as a commandment."

It is not up to us to decide what is a commandment and what is not. Believing what the word states is the truth. That trumps a person's personal belief.


The following are my responses to the other comments in your post above:
1. Your comments concerning Jesus and the bibles silence concerning the apostles baptisms are not relevant to whether the word commands EVERYONE to be baptized.

2.The word does not reflect the common belief that water baptism is done as a public display.
The jailer and his family was baptized by Paul at midnight - Paul and Silas were the only one's present.
Philip and the Ethiopians's driver (as someone else mentioned) were the only ones present at the Ethiopians baptism.

3. People are actually buried into Christ's death in water baptism and come forth into newness of life according to scripture. (Rom. 6:4, Col. 2:12)

 

[Wansvic]

Yes the had just received the baptism of the Holy Ghost. Evidenced by speaking in tongues (Peter said they knew they had received the same gift as them because they heard them speak with tongues) No one is questioning whether they were saved. The point being made here is that after this even he still commands that they be baptized in WATER as is obvious by his words "Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized,"

I agree that they were already saved but you must also concede that they were baptized in WATER after this statement by Peter ... And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.

Another interesting fact associated with this story is found in Acts 11. Peter is explaining everything that occurred in his interaction with Cornelius with the Jewish Council because Jews were forbidden to associate with Gentiles.

Please pay special attention to the comment Peter makes at the end of verse 17. He says Who was he to withstand God AFTER seeing the group filled with the gift of the Holy Ghost in the same way the Jews had at Pentecost. One can only conclude that Peter is speaking of it not being his place to withstand God by forbidding to administer water baptism. This point is confirmed when reading Peter comment to the disciples with him in Acts 10, "Can any forbid these water that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? (Acts 10:47)

Considering Peter's final points recorded in Acts 11, it is clear that the Council had a problem with Peter water baptizing the Gentiles. However, after hearing what happened they held their peace and accepted that God had granted repentance unto life to the Gentiles.
This record speaks directly to the truth that water baptism plays a part in the rebirth experience.

Acts 11:17-18
17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.