A saving faith vs a dead faith

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Jackson123

Senior Member
#61
Feb 6, 2014
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#61
TMS said:
There are many Christians that claim to be full of faith and act the same way an unbelieving person acts. The demons know more about the spiritual world and Godly things then we do, but that will not save them. knowing and understanding things about salvation, know how Jesus saves us is different to knowing Jesus. Jesus changes us because we know Him. Knowing about Him will not work.
in 1 kings 3 Solomon had 2 women come to him and both claimed to be the mother of the living child, but one was the mother of the dead child. Solomon asked for a sword to chop the child in two. The mother that really loved the child ask for the child's life to be preserved. Faith and works can not be separated they go hand and if you don't really believe something it will show eventually.

If you really love God you will show it. If you really believe Jesus has saved you will show it. faith and works can not be separated.
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Roman 4
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

I believe this verse talking about a person that accept Jesus, love Jesus and love other, but don't have ability to manifest his love to other because of his condition.

For example, he love other and want to feed the hunger, but he himself don't have food and sick not able to work.
But he believe in God, love Jesus, and want to feed the hunger.
I don't believe there is a person accept Jesus, love Jesus and other but don't want to help other. If Jesus in his heart, the love of Jesus will show of through him
 
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ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#62
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
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#62
Guojing said:
During the tribulation, it’s not just faith alone that will save you (rev 14:9-13).
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Are you claiming that verse 11 is referencing those who have faith in the doctrine of Jesus Christ? Those who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name never did have faith in God to lose.
 
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Guojing

Banned
#63
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
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#63
ForestGreenCook said:
Are you claiming that verse 11 is referencing those who have faith in the doctrine of Jesus Christ? Those who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name never did have faith in God to lose.
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You notice vs 12 has the word “and”?
 
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Blackpowderduelist

Guest
#64
#64
So if you go out and help people you have saving faith? So if I want to prove to others that I have saving faith I need to get out and do some good stuff, so I can show how saved I am. Then when Jesus comes I can say I have saving faith look at the stuff and things that I did?
 
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Blackpowderduelist

Guest
#65
#65
Let get out my works calculator to see if I have enough faith to save me.
 
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Guojing

Banned
#66
Jan 12, 2019
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#66
Blackpowderduelist said:
So if you go out and help people you have saving faith? So if I want to prove to others that I have saving faith I need to get out and do some good stuff, so I can show how saved I am. Then when Jesus comes I can say I have saving faith look at the stuff and things that I did?
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That will be the case during the Tribulation. That is why Peter reminded all of Israel in 1 Peter 4

18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

Better to be saved now, before the Body of Christ get raptured, it will be tougher to be saved after that.
 
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Blackpowderduelist

Guest
#67
#67
Guojing said:
That will be the case during the Tribulation. That is why Peter reminded all of Israel in 1 Peter 4

18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

Better to be saved now, before the Body of Christ get raptured, it will be tougher to be saved after that.
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I helped a widow woman. How many saving faith points does that give me?
 
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Guojing

Banned
#68
Jan 12, 2019
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#68
Blackpowderduelist said:
I helped a widow woman. How many saving faith points does that give me?
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During the Tribulation, you are only certain about your salvation at the end, when Jesus returns.

1 Peter 1
7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:

9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
 
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Jackson123

Senior Member
#69
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
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#69
Guojing said:
During the Tribulation, you are only certain about your salvation at the end, when Jesus returns.

1 Peter 1
7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:

9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
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I don't see the word during tribulation or Israel in these verse
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

Senior Member
#75
Apr 7, 2014
25,477
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#75
TMS said:
If you really love God you will show it. If you really believe Jesus has saved you will show it. faith and works can not be separated.
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We show our faith by our works. (James 2:14-18) If we truly have faith and love God then we will show it by our actions. All genuine believers are fruitful, yet not all are equally fruitful. Faith is the root of salvation and works are the fruit. No fruit at all would demonstrate there is no root. Faith is not works and we are saved through faith, not works. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9)
 
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BenjaminN

Well-known member
#76
Oct 7, 2020
1,504
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#76
Guojing said:
Yes, I was mentioning the "and" to FGC here https://christianchat.com/threads/a-saving-faith-vs-a-dead-faith.195680/post-4412912
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Eph 2:8-10 - We are saved by grace, through faith which is the gift of God, FOR good works prepared by God.


Revelation 14 (ESV)

12 Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus.


Luke 10 (ESV)

26 He said to him, "What is written in the Law? How do you read it?" 27 And he answered, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind, and your neighbor as yourself."
 
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Guojing

Banned
#77
Jan 12, 2019
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#77
BenjaminN said:
Eph 2:8-10 - We are saved by grace, through faith which is the gift of God, FOR good works prepared by God.


Revelation 14 (ESV)

12 Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus.


Luke 10 (ESV)

26 He said to him, "What is written in the Law? How do you read it?" 27 And he answered, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind, and your neighbor as yourself."
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The difference in both our doctrines is that I divide the word of truth into dispensation of grace, and when it is over.

During this current time, which is the grace dispensation (Ephesians 3:9), our salvation is not affected by lack of works, 1 Cor 3

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
 
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BenjaminN

Well-known member
#78
Oct 7, 2020
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#78
Guojing said:
The difference in both our doctrines is that I divide the word of truth into dispensation of grace, and when it is over.

During this current time, which is the grace dispensation (Ephesians 3:9), our salvation is not affected by lack of works, 1 Cor 3

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
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Is these scriptures the extent of it, that brought you to your strange view that God's grace is only a temporary dispensation granting lawlessness salvation, where lawful good works prepared by God is not the fruit of faith (which is the gift of God in his grace)?

Heed Peter's warning to those that twists Paul's scripture (as they do to other scripture as well), as the error of lawless people. Rather grow in the grace of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, from now and until eternity.

2 Peter 3 (ESV)

15 And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, 16 as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. 17 You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability. 18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.

We hold the view that God's grace is eternal, has always been with humanity, and will always be with humanity (as God's saving grace was granted to Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, all God's prophets, the elect Gentiles from the East, West, South and North, etc.).


Genesis 6 (ESV)

7 So the Lord said, "I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, man and animals and creeping things and birds of the heavens, for I am sorry that I have made them." 8 But Noah found favor in the eyes of the Lord. 9 These are the generations of Noah. Noah was a righteous man, blameless in his generation. Noah walked with God.


Luke 13 (ESV)

28 In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God but you yourselves cast out. 29 And people will come from east and west, and from north and south, and recline at table in the kingdom of God.
 
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