The 144,000,The Remnant Church In The Wilderness, Fed (Manna) From Heaven During The Tribulation

[Truth7t7]

The 144,000 saved Christian Jews, represent the remnant church, that will have the Everlasting gospel to preach Rev 14:4-7, they will be camped in the wilderness of Bashan, Carmel, during the tribulation being fed (Manna) as in the days of old Micah 7:12-17, this is the woman in the wilderness seen in Rev 12:6 below

Revelation 12:6KJV
6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Micah 7:12-17KJV
12 In that day also he shall come even to thee from Assyria, and from the fortified cities, and from the fortress even to the river, and from sea to sea, and from mountain to mountain.
13 Notwithstanding the land shall be desolate because of them that dwell therein, for the fruit of their doings.
14 Feed thy people with thy rod, the flock of thine heritage, which dwell solitarily in the wood, in the midst of Carmel: let them feed in Bashan and Gilead, as in the days of old.
15 According to the days of thy coming out of the land of Egypt will I shew unto him marvellous things.
16 The nations shall see and be confounded at all their might: they shall lay their hand upon their mouth, their ears shall be deaf.
17 They shall lick the dust like a serpent, they shall move out of their holes like worms of the earth: they shall be afraid of the Lord our God, and shall fear because of thee.

Revelation 14:4-7KJV
4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.
6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth,

 

[Corban]

The 144,000 saved Christian Jews, represent the remnant church, that will have the Everlasting gospel to preach Rev 14:4-7, they will be camped in the wilderness of Bashan, Carmel, during the tribulation being fed (Manna) as in the days of old Micah 7:12-17, this is the woman in the wilderness seen in Rev 12:6 below

Revelation 12:6KJV
6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Micah 7:12-17KJV
12 In that day also he shall come even to thee from Assyria, and from the fortified cities, and from the fortress even to the river, and from sea to sea, and from mountain to mountain.
13 Notwithstanding the land shall be desolate because of them that dwell therein, for the fruit of their doings.
14 Feed thy people with thy rod, the flock of thine heritage, which dwell solitarily in the wood, in the midst of Carmel: let them feed in Bashan and Gilead, as in the days of old.
15 According to the days of thy coming out of the land of Egypt will I shew unto him marvellous things.
16 The nations shall see and be confounded at all their might: they shall lay their hand upon their mouth, their ears shall be deaf.
17 They shall lick the dust like a serpent, they shall move out of their holes like worms of the earth: they shall be afraid of the Lord our God, and shall fear because of thee.

Revelation 14:4-7KJV
4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.
6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth,

• The 144,000 of Revelation 14 are NOT on earth. They are "redeemed FROM the earth"
• The 144,000 of Revelation 14 do not preach any gospel
• An angel preaches the "Everlasting Gospel"
• There is no such thing as a "saved Christian Jew". It is never so mentioned in the whole Bible. The Bible always CONTRASTS Jews and Christians. They are mortal enemies (Gal.4:29)
• If a man believes in Christ his ethnicity is abolished (2nd Cor.5:17). One cannot be a believer and a Jew at the same time (Gal.3:28; Col.3:11)
• The 144,000 of Revelation 14 are before the throne. They cannot be in a wilderness
• Those who do go to the wilderness are "helped by the earth" - not God (Rev.12:16). Verse 6 says "they" feed her.

 

[BenjaminN]

• The 144,000 of Revelation 14 are NOT on earth. They are "redeemed FROM the earth"
• The 144,000 of Revelation 14 do not preach any gospel
• An angel preaches the "Everlasting Gospel"
• There is no such thing as a "saved Christian Jew". It is never so mentioned in the whole Bible. The Bible always CONTRASTS Jews and Christians. They are mortal enemies (Gal.4:29)
• If a man believes in Christ his ethnicity is abolished (2nd Cor.5:17). One cannot be a believer and a Jew at the same time (Gal.3:28; Col.3:11)
• The 144,000 of Revelation 14 are before the throne. They cannot be in a wilderness
• Those who do go to the wilderness are "helped by the earth" - not God (Rev.12:16). Verse 6 says "they" feed her.

Your Darbyism "dispensationalist" views, juxtapose Christ Yeshua's Church to be an opposing view to restored Israel, whilst Romans 11 tells us they are in fact sub-groups of each other, and not opposing separate groups:

As we are both physical and spiritual beings, I believe that Christ Yeshua is head of his physical and spiritual body, the Church, of which the Gentiles and the Israel he came to renew is part of, so that in the fulness of time, he will be the King of the restored Israel, into which Gentiles are grafted into, when they make Christ Yeshua their King as well, as will Israel when they come out of their partial hardening (Romans 11:25).

Acts 1 (ESV)

6 So when they had come together, they asked him, "Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?" 7 He said to them, "It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority. 8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth." 9 And when he had said these things, as they were looking on, he was lifted up, and a cloud took him out of their sight. 10 And while they were gazing into heaven as he went, behold, two men stood by them in white robes, 11 and said, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into heaven? This Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven."

Romans 11 (ESV)

1 I ask, then, has God rejected his people? By no means! For I myself am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, a member of the tribe of Benjamin. 7 What then? Israel failed to obtain what it was seeking. The elect obtained it, but the rest were hardened, 8 as it is written, "God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that would not see and ears that would not hear, down to this very day." 9 And David says, "Let their table become a snare and a trap, a stumbling block and a retribution for them; 10 let their eyes be darkened so that they cannot see, and bend their backs forever." 11 So I ask, did they stumble in order that they might fall? By no means! Rather through their trespass salvation has come to the Gentiles, so as to make Israel jealous. 12 Now if their trespass means riches for the world, and if their failure means riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their full inclusion mean! 13 Now I am speaking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry 14 in order somehow to make my fellow Jews jealous, and thus save some of them. 15 For if their rejection means the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance mean but life from the dead? 16 If the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, so is the whole lump, and if the root is holy, so are the branches. 17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree, 18 do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you. 19 Then you will say, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in." 20 That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. 22 Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off. 23 And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, the natural branches, be grafted back into their own olive tree. 25 Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, "The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob"; 27 "and this will be my covenant with them when I take away their sins." 28 As regards the gospel, they are enemies for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30 For just as you were at one time disobedient to God but now have received mercy because of their disobedience, 31 so they too have now been disobedient in order that by the mercy shown to you they also may now receive mercy. 32 For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.

 

[Corban]

Your Darbyism "dispensationalist" views, juxtapose Christ Yeshua's Church to be in opposition to restored Israel, whilst Romans 11 tells us otherwise:

As we are both physical and spiritual beings, I believe that Christ Yeshua is head of his physical and spiritual body, the Church, of which the Gentiles and the Israel he came to renew is part of, so that in the fulness of time, he will be the King of the restored Israel, into which Gentiles are grafted into, when they make Christ Yeshua their King as well, as will Israel when they come out of their partial hardening (Romans 11:25).

...

Your sentiments are noted. Yet you could not show one point wrong. Instead you claim Israel to be the Tree into which Gentiles are grafted into. This, in the face of the plain wording that Israel were BRANCHES and not the Tree. This, in the face of the plain wording that the Root was "holy" but Israel, of all the nations, was the least holy. This, in the face of the plain wording that not GENTILES were grafted in, but BELIEVERS. The once mentioned "Gentiles" in Romans 11:25 are the ENEMY to be terminated and displaced.

 

[Truth7t7]

• The 144,000 of Revelation 14 are NOT on earth. They are "redeemed FROM the earth"
• The 144,000 of Revelation 14 do not preach any gospel
• An angel preaches the "Everlasting Gospel"
• There is no such thing as a "saved Christian Jew". It is never so mentioned in the whole Bible. The Bible always CONTRASTS Jews and Christians. They are mortal enemies (Gal.4:29)
• If a man believes in Christ his ethnicity is abolished (2nd Cor.5:17). One cannot be a believer and a Jew at the same time (Gal.3:28; Col.3:11)
• The 144,000 of Revelation 14 are before the throne. They cannot be in a wilderness
• Those who do go to the wilderness are "helped by the earth" - not God (Rev.12:16). Verse 6 says "they" feed her.

Sorry, the 144,000 are on Mt. ZION, with the Lord in Rev 14:1 below, that isnt before the throne in heaven, it's on earth.

Revelation 14:1KJV
And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

Angel's dont preach the gospel, human preachers that have been redeemed do.

Roman's 10:14-15KJV
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

Throughout the bible Jews are saved and followed Jesus Christ, they were first called Christian's in Antioch, that included Christian's that were (Jews)

 

[Truth7t7]

Your Darbyism "dispensationalist" views, juxtapose Christ Yeshua's Church to be an opposing view to restored Israel, whilst Romans 11 tells us they are in fact sub-groups of each other, and not opposing separate groups:

As we are both physical and spiritual beings, I believe that Christ Yeshua is head of his physical and spiritual body, the Church, of which the Gentiles and the Israel he came to renew is part of, so that in the fulness of time, he will be the King of the restored Israel, into which Gentiles are grafted into, when they make Christ Yeshua their King as well, as will Israel when they come out of their partial hardening (Romans 11:25).

Acts 1 (ESV)

6 So when they had come together, they asked him, "Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?" 7 He said to them, "It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority. 8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth." 9 And when he had said these things, as they were looking on, he was lifted up, and a cloud took him out of their sight. 10 And while they were gazing into heaven as he went, behold, two men stood by them in white robes, 11 and said, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into heaven? This Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven."

Romans 11 (ESV)

1 I ask, then, has God rejected his people? By no means! For I myself am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, a member of the tribe of Benjamin. 7 What then? Israel failed to obtain what it was seeking. The elect obtained it, but the rest were hardened, 8 as it is written, "God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that would not see and ears that would not hear, down to this very day." 9 And David says, "Let their table become a snare and a trap, a stumbling block and a retribution for them; 10 let their eyes be darkened so that they cannot see, and bend their backs forever." 11 So I ask, did they stumble in order that they might fall? By no means! Rather through their trespass salvation has come to the Gentiles, so as to make Israel jealous. 12 Now if their trespass means riches for the world, and if their failure means riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their full inclusion mean! 13 Now I am speaking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry 14 in order somehow to make my fellow Jews jealous, and thus save some of them. 15 For if their rejection means the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance mean but life from the dead? 16 If the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, so is the whole lump, and if the root is holy, so are the branches. 17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree, 18 do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you. 19 Then you will say, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in." 20 That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. 22 Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off. 23 And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, the natural branches, be grafted back into their own olive tree. 25 Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, "The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob"; 27 "and this will be my covenant with them when I take away their sins." 28 As regards the gospel, they are enemies for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30 For just as you were at one time disobedient to God but now have received mercy because of their disobedience, 31 so they too have now been disobedient in order that by the mercy shown to you they also may now receive mercy. 32 For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.

Try reading the entire chapter of Roman's 11, (Only The Elect Remnant Jew) will be saved, the rest are blinded.

Just as Zechariah 13:8-9 explains below 2/3 will be cut off and die,only 1/3 live, the Remnant Elect Jew

Romans 11:5-7 & 27-28KJV
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

Zechariah 13:8-9KJV
8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.
9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.

 

[BenjaminN]

Your sentiments are noted. Yet you could not show one point wrong. Instead you claim Israel to be the Tree into which Gentiles are grafted into. This, in the face of the plain wording that Israel were BRANCHES and not the Tree. This, in the face of the plain wording that the Root was "holy" but Israel, of all the nations, was the least holy. This, in the face of the plain wording that not GENTILES were grafted in, but BELIEVERS. The once mentioned "Gentiles" in Romans 11:25 are the ENEMY to be terminated and displaced.

You put words in my mouth (see bold text above), and that is bearing false witness. The to-be-fully restored Kingdom of Israel, under Kingship of Christ Yeshua, is the Tree (into which both Jews and Gentiles are and will be grafted into).

Christ Yeshua is the root, the natural branches is the Jews, the wild branches is the Gentiles.

Whilst the natural branches have temporarily been cut-off, for the sake of the grafting in of the wild branches, at the fulness of the grafting in of the wild branches, the natural branches will be grafted in as well, so that the Kingdom of Israel under the Kingship of Christ Yeshua may be restored.


Acts 1 (ESV)

6 So when they had come together, they asked him, "Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?" 7 He said to them, "It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority. 8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth."

 

[BenjaminN]

Try reading the entire chapter of Roman's 11, (Only The Elect Remnant Jew) will be saved, the rest are blinded."

Romans 11 (ESV)

24 For if you were cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, the natural branches, be grafted back into their own olive tree. 25 Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, "The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob"; 27 "and this will be my covenant with them when I take away their sins."

 

[BenjaminN]

All Israel being: Ephraim among the Gentiles (see link to post below), and Judah among the Jews:


Romans 11 (ESV)

26 And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, "The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob"; 27 "and this will be my covenant with them when I take away their sins."


https://christianchat.com/threads/l...syrian-captivity-of-740bc.195657/post-4408686

 

[Corban]

Sorry, the 144,000 are on Mt. ZION, with the Lord in Rev 14:1 below, that isnt before the throne in heaven, it's on earth.

Revelation 14:1KJV
And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

Angel's dont preach the gospel, human preachers that have been redeemed do.

Roman's 10:14-15KJV
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

Throughout the bible Jews are saved and followed Jesus Christ, they were first called Christian's in Antioch, that included Christian's that were (Jews)

No need to be sorry. There are Two Tabernacles, the one in heaven which Moses had to pattern the one on earth with. There are Two Paradises, one in heaven which belongs to God, and one under the earth where our Lord met the thief who was crucified next to Him. There are Two Jerusalems - the one above who is "Mother of us all" and one that "now is". And there are TWO Zions. What do you think of Hebrews 12:22?

What IS clear is that the setting is heaven - the same as Chapter 4 with the four Creatures, the throne and the 24 elders. And what IS ALSO clear is that men who were "redeemed FROM the earth" cannot be on earth. If they are the Overcoming Christians, as I maintain, and which the mound of evidence shows, then they would have been Raptured FROM the earth.

I agree. Angels do not preach the gospel OF CHRIST. But the "everlasting gospel" is defined in the next verse. Revelation 14:7

"Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters."

Nothing is said either about our Lord Jesus, nor His vicarious Work. This gospel in verse 14 above is valid for angels, men and demons.

 

[Truth7t7]

Romans 11 (ESV)

24 For if you were cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, the natural branches, be grafted back into their own olive tree. 25 Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, "The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob"; 27 "and this will be my covenant with them when I take away their sins."

Please Explain Who (The Rest Are Blinded) are in bold red below?

Romans 11:5-7KJV
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

 

[Truth7t7]

All Israel being: Ephraim among the Gentiles (see link to post below), and Judah among the Jews:


Romans 11 (ESV)

26 And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, "The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob"; 27 "and this will be my covenant with them when I take away their sins."


https://christianchat.com/threads/l...syrian-captivity-of-740bc.195657/post-4408686

Ok, you believe the Remnant Elect is Judah?

Do you believe that 2/3 will be cut off and die Zech 13:8-9?

 

[ForestGreenCook]

• The 144,000 of Revelation 14 are NOT on earth. They are "redeemed FROM the earth"
• The 144,000 of Revelation 14 do not preach any gospel
• An angel preaches the "Everlasting Gospel"
• There is no such thing as a "saved Christian Jew". It is never so mentioned in the whole Bible. The Bible always CONTRASTS Jews and Christians. They are mortal enemies (Gal.4:29)
• If a man believes in Christ his ethnicity is abolished (2nd Cor.5:17). One cannot be a believer and a Jew at the same time (Gal.3:28; Col.3:11)
• The 144,000 of Revelation 14 are before the throne. They cannot be in a wilderness
• Those who do go to the wilderness are "helped by the earth" - not God (Rev.12:16). Verse 6 says "they" feed her.

By Greek interpretation, an angel is a messenger. Preachers of the gospel are messengers (angels).

 

[BenjaminN]

Ok, you believe the Remnant Elect is Judah?

Do you believe that 2/3 will be cut off and die Zech 13:8-9?

There was a remnant elect from Judah at the time of Paul, ie. Jesus, his twelve disciples, the believing Jews in the foreign countries of their diaspora around Judea, and those from the Church of Jerusalem, that heeded the Lord's warning and fled to Pella, prior ot the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AC. There, in their Roman persecution of Jews, their Judahite identity was lost, as they became Hellenised, over the course of time.

https://atlantaserbs.com/learnmore/history/Jerusalem-church.htm

"Do you believe that 2/3 will be cut off and die" - I believe what the Bible says, it may very well be of the people in the "nation of Israel" of today who do not make Christ Yeshua their King, or a different reference to Judah, of another time when Judah will mourn for the One we have pierced.


Zechariah 12 (ESV)

10 "And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and pleas for mercy, so that, when they look on me, on him whom they have pierced, they shall mourn for him, as one mourns for an only child, and weep bitterly over him, as one weeps over a firstborn.

 

[Corban]

By Greek interpretation, an angel is a messenger. Preachers of the gospel are messengers (angels).

Correct. This "messenger" does his job in "mid-heaven". I think the translators got it right. It was an angel. But that is not the only indicator. The question we have to answer is, "who is left on earth to reach the gospel at all"?

• The Two Witnesses of Revelation 11 are busy killing those who oppose them. That is not the gospel of Christ
• The saints left on earth have been overcome by the Beast (Rev.13:7)
• These same saints are busy fleeing to a wilderness (Rev.12:12-17)
• The Jews are in with the Beast (Dan.9:27)
• The Jewish Remnant are not teaching Jesus. They are teaching the Law (Deut.30:1-5). They "keep the commandments of God (not Jesus)"
• Demons are forbidden to declare Christ

The angel of mid-heaven is not preaching Christ, but to fear God the Creator who judges. So actually, no-one preaches the gospel during the Great Tribulation.

 

[Truth7t7]

There was a remnant elect from Judah at the time of Paul, ie. Jesus, his twelve disciples, the believing Jews in the foreign countries of their diaspora around Judea, and those from the Church of Jerusalem, that heeded the Lord's warning and fled to Pella, prior ot the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AC. There, in their Roman persecution of Jews, their Judahite identity was lost, as they became Hellenised, over the course of time.

https://atlantaserbs.com/learnmore/history/Jerusalem-church.htm

"Do you believe that 2/3 will be cut off and die" - I believe what the Bible says, it may very well be of the people in the "nation of Israel" of today who do not make Christ Yeshua their King, or a different reference to Judah, of another time when Judah will mourn for the One we have pierced.


Zechariah 12 (ESV)

10 "And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and pleas for mercy, so that, when they look on me, on him whom they have pierced, they shall mourn for him, as one mourns for an only child, and weep bitterly over him, as one weeps over a firstborn.

Only the families that are saved and (Remain) will see and mourn.

Zechariah 12:10-14KJV
10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
11 In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.
12 And the land shall mourn, every family apart; the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart; the family of the house of Nathan apart, and their wives apart;
13 The family of the house of Levi apart, and their wives apart; the family of Shimei apart, and their wives apart;
14 All the families that remain, every family apart, and their wives apart.

Zechariah 13:8-9KJV
8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.
9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.

 

[BenjaminN]

Your sentiments are noted. Yet you could not show one point wrong. Instead you claim Israel to be the Tree into which Gentiles are grafted into. This, in the face of the plain wording that Israel were BRANCHES and not the Tree. This, in the face of the plain wording that the Root was "holy" but Israel, of all the nations, was the least holy. This, in the face of the plain wording that not GENTILES were grafted in, but BELIEVERS. The once mentioned "Gentiles"??? in Romans 11:25 are the ENEMY to be terminated and displaced.

When looking through the glasses of Darbyism, or otherwise called "dispensationalism", things become dim and uncomprehendable, although Romans 11 is clear, and give us the context of Gentiles. Gentiles are mentioned five times in Romans 11, quoted here for your ease of reference:


Romans 11 (ESV)

11 So I ask, did they (Judah among the Jews) stumble in order that they might fall? By no means! Rather through their trespass salvation has come to the Gentiles (and Ephraim among them), so as to make Israel jealous. 12 Now if their trespass means riches for the world, and if their failure means riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their full inclusion mean! 13 Now I am speaking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry 25 Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.


Genesis 48 (Young's Literal Translation)

17 And Joseph seeth that his father setteth his right hand on the head of Ephraim, and it is wrong in his eyes, and he supporteth the hand of his father to turn it aside from off the head of Ephraim to the head of Manasseh; 18 and Joseph saith unto his father, `Not so, my father, for this [is] the first-born; set thy right hand on his head.' 19 And his father refuseth, and saith, `I have known, my son, I have known; he also becometh a people, and he also is great, and yet, his young brother is greater than he, and his seed is the fulness of the nations;'

 

[BenjaminN]

Only the families that are saved and (Remain) will see and mourn.

Zechariah 12:14KJV
14 All the families that remain, every family apart, and their wives apart.

Zechariah 13:8-9KJV
8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.
9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.

Ok, why do Zechariah 12 preceed Zechariah 13?

 

[Truth7t7]

Correct. This "messenger" does his job in "mid-heaven". I think the translators got it right. It was an angel. But that is not the only indicator. The question we have to answer is, "who is left on earth to reach the gospel at all"?

• The Two Witnesses of Revelation 11 are busy killing those who oppose them. That is not the gospel of Christ
• The saints left on earth have been overcome by the Beast (Rev.13:7)
• These same saints are busy fleeing to a wilderness (Rev.12:12-17)
• The Jews are in with the Beast (Dan.9:27)
• The Jewish Remnant are not teaching Jesus. They are teaching the Law (Deut.30:1-5). They "keep the commandments of God (not Jesus)"
• Demons are forbidden to declare Christ

The angel of mid-heaven is not preaching Christ, but to fear God the Creator who judges. So actually, no-one preaches the gospel during the Great Tribulation.

The Lord Jesus Christ Is In Control!

Dont look like your Beast is in control of the tribulation to me,Big Smiles!

Tormented for 5 months, desiring to die,and death flees?

Revelation 9:1-6KJV
1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

Dont look like your Beast is running the show in Rev 16:1-10 either, Noisome Sores, Blood For Water, Scorching Heat, Darkness, Big Smiles!

Revelation 16:1-10KJV
1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.
2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.
3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.
4 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood.
5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus.
6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.
7 And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments.
8 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.
9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.
10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,

 

[BenjaminN]

Only the families that are saved and (Remain) will see and mourn.

Zechariah 12:10-14KJV
10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
11 In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.
12 And the land shall mourn, every family apart; the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart; the family of the house of Nathan apart, and their wives apart;
13 The family of the house of Levi apart, and their wives apart; the family of Shimei apart, and their wives apart;
14 All the families that remain, every family apart, and their wives apart.

Zechariah 13:8-9KJV
8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.
9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.

It seems that this will be happening at the time when the "fulness of the Gentiles" have come in, when the partial hardening (spirit of stupor) of Judah is lifted, and they receive the spirit of grace, when they realise they can not go into a war and win without Christ Yeshua, as 2/3rds will be lost when they entered into a war without Christ Yeshua as King.