The 144,000,The Remnant Church In The Wilderness, Fed (Manna) From Heaven During The Tribulation

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Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
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#41
Please click on this link: Looking for the Ephraimites, scattered among the Gentiles, since their Assyrian captivity of 740BC

Ephraim, the ten northern tribes of Samaria, IS NOT AMONG THE JEWS, the three southern tribes of Judea today, they were scattered AMONG THE GENTILES, since 740BC.

James wrote to them:


James 1 (ESV)


1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, To the twelve tribes in the Dispersion: Greetings.
Ok got it, (The Ten Lost Tribes)

I believe these lost Tribes will be identified in the future, and they will each have a king/ruler that will give their power to the Beast, as seen in Revelation 17:12-14 below

Revelation 17:12-14KJV

12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
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#42
No, their destiny remains on Earth, with Christ as their king sitting on David's throne in Jerusalem.

Basically, all the promises of land and Zechariah 8 will be fulfilled after the Tribulation.

For the Body of Christ, our destiny is in the heavenly realms with Christ, my belief is that we will replace the fallen angels in the heavens. 1 Corinthians 6:3
Jesus Christ returns in fire and Final judgement, dissolving this earth by (Fire) there will be no human life after Jesus Christ is revealed.

Luke 17:28-30KJV
28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.


2 Peter 3:10-12KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which , what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
 

BenjaminN

Well-known member
Oct 7, 2020
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#43
Ok got it, (The Ten Lost Tribes)

I believe these lost Tribes will be identified in the future, and they will each have a king/ruler that will give their power to the Beast, as seen in Revelation 17:12-14 below

Revelation 17:12-14KJV
12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
I do not believe it can be interpreted that way, as it seems contrary to the rest of scripture, those unbelieving kings are political powers, knowing their identity and ruling over unbelieving gentiles, maybe giving their power to a uniting nations. Here in Revelations 7:4 before the great tribulation (prior to Revelations 17:12-14 during the great tribulation) the scattered, at that time of fulfilment, as formerly identity-lost tribes (Reuben, Gad, Asher, Naphtali, Manasseh, Simeon, Issachar, Zebulun, Joseph/Ephraim) unbeknownst formerly of their Ephraimite-Israelite identity, (contrary to the Jewish Judahite-Israelite tribes of Judah, Benjamin and Levi, knowing their identity) gets marked by God before the time of the great tribulation. You can not have the mark of the beast and give your power to the beast, and have God's mark:


John 11 (ESV)


49 But one of them, Caiaphas, who was high priest that year, said to them, "You know nothing at all. 50 Nor do you understand that it is better for you that one man should die for the people, not that the whole nation should perish." 51 He did not say this of his own accord, but being high priest that year he prophesied that Jesus would die for the nation, 52 and not for the nation only, but also to gather into one the children of God who are scattered abroad.


Romans 11 (ESV)

26 And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, "The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob"; 27 "and this will be my covenant with them when I take away their sins."

Revelation 7 (ESV)


1 After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth, that no wind might blow on earth or sea or against any tree. 2 Then I saw another angel ascending from the rising of the sun, with the seal of the living God, and he called with a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm earth and sea, 3 saying, "Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, until we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads." 4 And I heard the number of the sealed, 144,000, sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel: 5 12,000 from the tribe of Judah were sealed, 12,000 from the tribe of Reuben, 12,000 from the tribe of Gad, 6 12,000 from the tribe of Asher, 12,000 from the tribe of Naphtali, 12,000 from the tribe of Manasseh, 7 12,000 from the tribe of Simeon, 12,000 from the tribe of Levi, 12,000 from the tribe of Issachar, 8 12,000 from the tribe of Zebulun, 12,000 from the tribe of Joseph, 12,000 from the tribe of Benjamin were sealed. 9 After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands, 13 Then one of the elders addressed me, saying, "Who are these, clothed in white robes, and from where have they come?" 14 I said to him, "Sir, you know." And he said to me, "These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation. They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
 
Jun 11, 2020
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#44
Why do you state that you are a Swiss, if according to you, you've lost your Swiss ethnicity when you became a Christian? You do not make sense. Have you never came across Ephraim the northern kingdom tribes, that has been lost for 2730 years since their Assyrian captivity, in the Bible? Then you need to start reading. Begin with the book Ezekiel, read it from beginning to end. Then 1st and 2nd Chronicles and 1st and 2nd Kings. But if you have been limited to Darbyism and "dispensationalism", and restrict yourself to the New Testament books of the Bible, believing that restored Israel and the Body of Christ are separate entities, then you would remain blinded.
I seem to be grasping at straws. You place so much importance on a man's ORIGIN - IF he comes from Ephraim, and then deny that God deals very differently with one born of the womb, and one born of the Spirit. Tell me, what value has my Swiss Passport, snow, mountains and banks have to do with my future after Judgement? I'll write it once more, and then we leave it off brother. If you want to be an Ephraimite, you are one because you were born to Ephraim and from the womb. If that is your past, and you want to stick to it - please do. Your future is in Ezekiel 37 - the Kingdom of united Israel. You will be resurrected with "terrestrial glory", be gathered back to Canaan and enjoy sunshine, great harvests, long human life and serve Emanuel Who will dwell WITH you. But you better be sure that you are an Ephraimite. Go check it up (I know you can't for that is the meaning of "LOST").

Even if I was an Ephraimite, I'm glad to leave it behind by my BIRTH from above (Lit.Gk.). Not because there is anything negative in being an Ephraimite, but because by future is so much higher. God wanted a man in His image and likeness. I will achieve this (Rom.8:29). I will be a citizen and co-king with Christ in the Kingdom (out) of Heaven. I will be resurrected with "celestial" glory. I will enjoy the pleasures of the divine AND transformed human nature - forever. I will feast with Emanuel Who will dwell IN me. I will be a Priest and co-king. My brothers, the 12 Apostles will rule the Ephraimites. I am sure that I am a child of God. I know that my inheritance is not Canaan, but the whole earth (Rom.4:13).

ORIGIN is everything. In the New Man there are no Ephraimites. Your origin according to the flesh is valueless.
 

BenjaminN

Well-known member
Oct 7, 2020
1,504
307
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#45
No, their destiny remains on Earth, with Christ as their king sitting on David's throne in Jerusalem.

Basically, all the promises of land and Zechariah 8 will be fulfilled after the Tribulation.

For the Body of Christ, our destiny is in the heavenly realms with Christ, my belief is that we will replace the fallen angels in the heavens. 1 Corinthians 6:3
"their destiny remains on Earth, with Christ" and "in the heavenly realms with Christ"

so where do you say will Christ be?
 
Jun 11, 2020
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#46
Simple :)

The saints on earth in Revelation 13:7 are the (Two Witnesses) seen in Revelation 11:7 below.

When the (Two Witnesses) finish their testimony after 1260 days,they will be overcome and killed, Gods divine plan.

The saints seen in Revelation 13:7 dosent represent the Church on earth as you suggest in error, it's the (Two Witnesses)

Revelation 13:7KJV
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Revelation 11:7KJV
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
Not so brother. You do err. The saints in 13:7 are "overcome" and then found in a wilderness for 1260 days (Rev.12). That means that they are ALIVE. The Two Witnesses are "overcome AND KILLED". They do not go to a wilderness (Rev.12). They lie in Jerusalem in the open air for 3½ days and then they are resurrected and Raptured.
 
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
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#47
"their destiny remains on Earth, with Christ" and "in the heavenly realms with Christ"

so where do you say will Christ be?
Christ can be in both places simultaneously. He is God.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
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#48
I do not believe it can be interpreted that way, as it seems contrary to the rest of scripture, those unbelieving kings are political powers, knowing their identity and ruling over unbelieving gentiles, maybe giving their power to a uniting nations. Here in Revelations 7:4 before the great tribulation (prior to Revelations 17:12-14 during the great tribulation) the scattered, at that time of fulfilment, as formerly identity-lost tribes (Reuben, Gad, Asher, Naphtali, Manasseh, Simeon, Issachar, Zebulun, Joseph/Ephraim) unbeknownst formerly of their Ephraimite-Israelite identity, (contrary to the Jewish Judahite-Israelite tribes of Judah, Benjamin and Levi, knowing their identity) gets marked by God before the time of the great tribulation. You can not have the mark of the beast and give your power to the beast, and have God's mark:


John 11 (ESV)


49 But one of them, Caiaphas, who was high priest that year, said to them, "You know nothing at all. 50 Nor do you understand that it is better for you that one man should die for the people, not that the whole nation should perish." 51 He did not say this of his own accord, but being high priest that year he prophesied that Jesus would die for the nation, 52 and not for the nation only, but also to gather into one the children of God who are scattered abroad.


Romans 11 (ESV)

26 And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, "The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob"; 27 "and this will be my covenant with them when I take away their sins."

Revelation 7 (ESV)


1 After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth, that no wind might blow on earth or sea or against any tree. 2 Then I saw another angel ascending from the rising of the sun, with the seal of the living God, and he called with a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm earth and sea, 3 saying, "Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, until we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads." 4 And I heard the number of the sealed, 144,000, sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel: 5 12,000 from the tribe of Judah were sealed, 12,000 from the tribe of Reuben, 12,000 from the tribe of Gad, 6 12,000 from the tribe of Asher, 12,000 from the tribe of Naphtali, 12,000 from the tribe of Manasseh, 7 12,000 from the tribe of Simeon, 12,000 from the tribe of Levi, 12,000 from the tribe of Issachar, 8 12,000 from the tribe of Zebulun, 12,000 from the tribe of Joseph, 12,000 from the tribe of Benjamin were sealed. 9 After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands, 13 Then one of the elders addressed me, saying, "Who are these, clothed in white robes, and from where have they come?" 14 I said to him, "Sir, you know." And he said to me, "These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation. They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
You state they are gentile kings already?

The scripture states they have no Kingdom, but receive power one hour (With The Beast)

It's your predetermined belief that the 10 kings you speak about are saved.
 

BenjaminN

Well-known member
Oct 7, 2020
1,504
307
83
#49
I seem to be grasping at straws. You place so much importance on a man's ORIGIN - IF he comes from Ephraim, and then deny that God deals very differently with one born of the womb, and one born of the Spirit. Tell me, what value has my Swiss Passport, snow, mountains and banks have to do with my future after Judgement? I'll write it once more, and then we leave it off brother. If you want to be an Ephraimite, you are one because you were born to Ephraim and from the womb. If that is your past, and you want to stick to it - please do. Your future is in Ezekiel 37 - the Kingdom of united Israel. You will be resurrected with "terrestrial glory", be gathered back to Canaan and enjoy sunshine, great harvests, long human life and serve Emanuel Who will dwell WITH you. But you better be sure that you are an Ephraimite. Go check it up (I know you can't for that is the meaning of "LOST").

Even if I was an Ephraimite, I'm glad to leave it behind by my BIRTH from above (Lit.Gk.). Not because there is anything negative in being an Ephraimite, but because by future is so much higher. God wanted a man in His image and likeness. I will achieve this (Rom.8:29). I will be a citizen and co-king with Christ in the Kingdom (out) of Heaven. I will be resurrected with "celestial" glory. I will enjoy the pleasures of the divine AND transformed human nature - forever. I will feast with Emanuel Who will dwell IN me. I will be a Priest and co-king. My brothers, the 12 Apostles will rule the Ephraimites. I am sure that I am a child of God. I know that my inheritance is not Canaan, but the whole earth (Rom.4:13).

ORIGIN is everything. In the New Man there are no Ephraimites. Your origin according to the flesh is valueless.
Read Revelations 7:4-8 how Israel's tribal identity is preserved by God until the end. You can also be adopted into an Israelite tribe, if it was not by "the womb". King David's great grandmother Ruth, the former Moabite, was adopted as an Israelite. Many peoples of mixed origins left with the Israelites from Egypt in the Exodus, and were all adopted into one of the tribes. Some people however read Romans 11 there own way (desperately trying to separate Christ's restored Kingdom of Israel, from the Body of Christ), and do not want to realise that there is one restored Kingdom of Israel with Gentiles and Jews grafted into, which is the Body of Christ. Restored Israel of Revelations 20:1-6 and Ezekiel 37 coincides. Gog and Magog of Revelations 20:7-10 and Ezekiel 38 coincides.

How can Messiah, Christ Yeshua, according to your notions be with the Body of Christ, and also at the same time be separately with grafted, restored Israel? If according to you grafted, restored Israel and the Body of Christ is not one and the same?:


Revelation 20 (ESV)


4 Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

Ezekiel 37 (ESV)


25 They shall dwell in the land that I gave to my servant Jacob, where your fathers lived. They and their children and their children's children shall dwell there forever, and David my servant shall be their prince forever.
 

BenjaminN

Well-known member
Oct 7, 2020
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#50
Christ can be in both places simultaneously. He is God.
And God has one covenant people, who is a light to all nations, of the Gentiles:


Revelation 21 (ESV)


3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God. 4 He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away." 9 Then came one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues and spoke to me, saying, "Come, I will show you the Bride, the wife of the Lamb." 12 It had a great, high wall, with twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and on the gates the names of the twelve tribes of the sons of Israel were inscribed— 13 on the east three gates, on the north three gates, on the south three gates, and on the west three gates. 14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. 22 And I saw no temple in the city, for its temple is the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb. 23 And the city has no need of sun or moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and its lamp is the Lamb. 24 By its light will the nations walk, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it, 25 and its gates will never be shut by day—and there will be no night there. 26 They will bring into it the glory and the honor of the nations.
 
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Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
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#52
Not so brother. You do err. The saints in 13:7 are "overcome" and then found in a wilderness for 1260 days (Rev.12). That means that they are ALIVE. The Two Witnesses are "overcome AND KILLED". They do not go to a wilderness (Rev.12). They lie in Jerusalem in the open air for 3½ days and then they are resurrected and Raptured.
Not one word in Rev Chapter 13 states the saints are overcome and then in a wilderness somewhere, it dosent even suggest such a claim (Your Claim Is False)

The saints on earth in Revelation 13:7 are the (Two Witnesses) seen in Revelation 11:7 below.

When the (Two Witnesses) finish their testimony after 1260 days,they will be overcome and killed, Gods divine plan.

The saints seen in Revelation 13:7 dosent represent the Church on earth as you suggest in error, it's the (Two Witnesses)

Revelation 13:7KJV
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Revelation 11:7KJV
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
 

BenjaminN

Well-known member
Oct 7, 2020
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307
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#53
As I said, the Body of Christ has a different destiny from the nation Israel.
Please define your use of the words "the nation Israel"? As my belief is that the Body of Christ, the being grafted, restored Kingdom of Israel (consisting currently of Ephraim with Judah to follow in time), is God's one and only covenant people, throughout the ages.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,492
113
#54
Please define your use of the words "the nation Israel"? As my belief is that the Body of Christ, the being grafted, restored Kingdom of Israel (consisting currently of Ephraim with Judah to follow in time), is God's one and only covenant people, throughout the ages.
I believe the only future event for Israel is the Remnant are saved, and the rest are blind to salvation.

When the Remnant elect are saved, they are (Added To The Church) where there is neither Jew nor Gentile.
 
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
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#55
Please define your use of the words "the nation Israel"? As my belief is that the Body of Christ, the being grafted, restored Kingdom of Israel (consisting currently of Ephraim with Judah to follow in time), is God's one and only covenant people, throughout the ages.
There is no spiritual Israel in my doctrine. The Body of Christ is not Israel in any way, physical or spiritual.

The current nation of Israel that you see on the map is the nation Israel. They are currently blinded to the gospel by God.

Romans 11:25-29 tells us when the Body of Christ reach its correct size, God will deal with that nation once again.
 

BenjaminN

Well-known member
Oct 7, 2020
1,504
307
83
#56
There is no spiritual Israel in my doctrine. The Body of Christ is not Israel in any way, physical or spiritual.

The current nation of Israel that you see on the map is the nation Israel. They are currently blinded to the gospel by God.

Romans 11:25-29 tells us when the Body of Christ reach its correct size, God will deal with that nation once again.
Where do you see physical scattered Ephraim? In the current physical nation of Israel?
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,492
113
#58
There is no spiritual Israel in my doctrine. The Body of Christ is not Israel in any way, physical or spiritual.

The current nation of Israel that you see on the map is the nation Israel. They are currently blinded to the gospel by God.

Romans 11:25-29 tells us when the Body of Christ reach its correct size, God will deal with that nation once again.
There are (Two) Israel's seen below.

1. Ethnic Israel Of The Flesh

2. Israel The Church, Children Of The Promised Seed.

Gods word clearly tells you below, the children of the flesh (Ethnic Jews) they are not the children of God

Gods words below are very clear, and easy to understand.

Roman's 9:6-8KJV
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
 
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
#59
There are (Two) Israel's seen below.

1. Ethnic Israel Of The Flesh

2. Israel The Church, Children Of The Promised Seed.

Gods word clearly tells you below, the children of the flesh (Ethnic Jews) they are not the children of God

Gods words below are very clear, and easy to understand.

Roman's 9:6-8KJV
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
That is not saying the Body of Christ is Israel.

He is referring to the remnant from the nation that believe in Christ. God always has a remnant, as later explained in Romans 11:1-6.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,492
113
#60
That is not saying the Body of Christ is Israel.

He is referring to the remnant from the nation that believe in Christ. God always has a remnant, as later explained in Romans 11:1-6.
Your claim is in error, the promised seed is to the church both Jew and Gentile,who have faith in Jesus Christ

Israel The Church, Children Of The Promised Seed.

Galatians 3:26-30KJV
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

There are (Two) Israel's seen below.

1. Ethnic Israel Of The Flesh

2. Israel The Church, Children Of The Promised Seed.

Gods word clearly tells you below, the children of the flesh (Ethnic Jews) they are not the children of God

Gods words below are very clear, and easy to understand.

Roman's 9:6-8KJV
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.