Works righteousness.
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The issue has been dealt with in the sense of reconciliation.
19To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
2cor 2.19
13And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Col 2
All sin is dealt with . Its no longer the issue. But we sin still because we are still in the flesh ( rom 7 ) Yes we have the ' new man ' but the ' old man ' still resides . Thats why we are longing for the Adoption the redemption of the body . Bodily resurrection. For believers the spirit is already resurrected.
Eph 2
5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
6And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
19To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
2cor 2.19
13And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Col 2
All sin is dealt with . Its no longer the issue. But we sin still because we are still in the flesh ( rom 7 ) Yes we have the ' new man ' but the ' old man ' still resides . Thats why we are longing for the Adoption the redemption of the body . Bodily resurrection. For believers the spirit is already resurrected.
Eph 2
5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
6And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
But consider Adam for a moment. Of course we know that his flesh didn't tempt him to sin like ours does, yet he sinned. So it's not temptation itself that's the problem but an issue with our hearts. Again, Adam didn't have sinful flesh but still sinned...meanwhile, the Messiah did have our sinful flesh and yet did not sin. So the problem that must be solved is on the inside with the heart.
The wage, death, needed to be taken care of first because it was a prison; a vicious cycle of sin, death, sin, death...now with that broken we can learn, stumble, be forgiven, do better, etc until we are complete.
This is why glorification won't happen until we have a handle on this sin thing. Can't have immortal beings with corrupt hearts.
19To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
Col 2
13And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14BLOTTING OUT the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, NAILING IT to his cross;
Eph 1
13¶In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were SEALED with that holy Spirit of PROMISE ,
14Which is the GURANTEE of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
Eph 4
30And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are SEALED UNTO the day of redemption.
Col 2
13And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14BLOTTING OUT the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, NAILING IT to his cross;
Eph 1
13¶In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were SEALED with that holy Spirit of PROMISE ,
14Which is the GURANTEE of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
Eph 4
30And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are SEALED UNTO the day of redemption.
No It's not works salvation. I just literally regurgitated James' teaching.
James 1:2-8
2Consider it pure joy, my brothers, when you encounter trials of many kinds, 3because you know that the testing of your faith develops perseverance. 4Allow perseverance to finish its work, so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything.
5Now if any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to him. 6But he must ask in faith, without doubting, because he who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. 7That man should not expect to receive anything from the Lord. 8He is a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways.
...and then it goes into the passage I posted about temptation.
Your thread is called "Works Righteousness" not "works salvation". We are saved when we are yet sinners; when we are yet "unrighteous", would you agree?
Next, you posted a passage from Romans explaining how we are then made righteous by the same faith in the Messiah, right?
So then the newly righteous are expected to do good works to not become unrighteous again.
James 1:2-8
2Consider it pure joy, my brothers, when you encounter trials of many kinds, 3because you know that the testing of your faith develops perseverance. 4Allow perseverance to finish its work, so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything.
5Now if any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to him. 6But he must ask in faith, without doubting, because he who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. 7That man should not expect to receive anything from the Lord. 8He is a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways.
...and then it goes into the passage I posted about temptation.
Your thread is called "Works Righteousness" not "works salvation". We are saved when we are yet sinners; when we are yet "unrighteous", would you agree?
Next, you posted a passage from Romans explaining how we are then made righteous by the same faith in the Messiah, right?
So then the newly righteous are expected to do good works to not become unrighteous again.
5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye ARE SAVED
6And hath raised us up together, and made us SIT TOGETHER in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
Our spiritual resurrection has ALREADY happened being in Christ Jesus we are currently seated with Jesus. Where is Jesus currently? . If we are saved we just are awaiting the physical resurrection. Rom 8 .23 . Being predestinated to the redemption of the body ,being in Christ with the Holy Spirit of promise indwelling . With NOTHING being able to separate us .
38For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Being not Only in the Hand of Jesus and the father ( John 10 ) But we are his hand .
Ephesians 5:30
“For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.”
All this and so much more , makes what your saying about how we are saved today a complete contradiction ?
6And hath raised us up together, and made us SIT TOGETHER in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
Our spiritual resurrection has ALREADY happened being in Christ Jesus we are currently seated with Jesus. Where is Jesus currently? . If we are saved we just are awaiting the physical resurrection. Rom 8 .23 . Being predestinated to the redemption of the body ,being in Christ with the Holy Spirit of promise indwelling . With NOTHING being able to separate us .
38For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Being not Only in the Hand of Jesus and the father ( John 10 ) But we are his hand .
Ephesians 5:30
“For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.”
All this and so much more , makes what your saying about how we are saved today a complete contradiction ?
A person who has their trespasses imputed to them MUST DIE...they MUST DIE to pay for those trespasses as the wage of sin is death. But after reconciliation our trespasses are NOT imputed to us, meaning we no longer need to die for our sins, but can be forgiven.
Indeed, the Holy Spirit is the guarantee because His work is to teach us how to live righteously (i.e. in obedience). Therefore, we WILL become pure in heart and get the reward of glorification at the end...if we listen to Him and do what He says.
Indeed, the Holy Spirit is the guarantee because His work is to teach us how to live righteously (i.e. in obedience). Therefore, we WILL become pure in heart and get the reward of glorification at the end...if we listen to Him and do what He says.
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Lol honestly, you wouldn't believe me if I told you...but this brings us back to Paul and Romans 2.
Respectfully, Paul uses that entire chapter to dispell the notion that the Almighty is doing a separate thing with gentiles than what He's doing with Jews. "For God is no respecter of persons".
A few times He says "to the Jew first and then to the gentile". The word "first" connotes a sequential order. Paul never says, "to the jew instead...". He then further elaborates what he means in Romans 11 as he explains about wild and natural branches.
There is only Israel. The kingdom will have 12 gates each with a name of a tribe of Israel, so actually you're one of the 12 tribes too, as well as every other gentile believer.
Respectfully, Paul uses that entire chapter to dispell the notion that the Almighty is doing a separate thing with gentiles than what He's doing with Jews. "For God is no respecter of persons".
A few times He says "to the Jew first and then to the gentile". The word "first" connotes a sequential order. Paul never says, "to the jew instead...". He then further elaborates what he means in Romans 11 as he explains about wild and natural branches.
There is only Israel. The kingdom will have 12 gates each with a name of a tribe of Israel, so actually you're one of the 12 tribes too, as well as every other gentile believer.
It's based on several passages we know. Who was ephesians written to? Note the instructions...
Ephesians 4:17
17So I tell you this, and insist on it in the Lord, that you must no longer walk as the Gentiles do, in the futility of their thinking. 18They are darkened in their understanding and alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardness of their hearts. 19Having lost all sense of shame, they have given themselves over to sensuality for the practice of every kind of impurity, with a craving for more.
20But this is not the way you came to know Christ. 21Surely you heard of Him and were taught in Him—in keeping with the truth that is in Jesus— 22to put off your former way of life, your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; 23to be renewed in the spirit of your minds; 24and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.
25Therefore each of you must put off falsehood and speak truthfully to his neighbor, for we are all members of one another. 26“Be angry, yet do not sin.”d Do not let the sun set upon your anger, 27and do not give the devil a foothold.
28He who has been stealing must steal no longer, but must work, doing good with his own hands, that he may have something to share with the one in need.
29Let no unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building up the one in need and bringing grace to those who listen.
30And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, in whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
31Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, outcry and slander, along with every form of malice. 32Be kind and tenderhearted to one another, forgiving each other just as in Christ God forgave you.
The Holy Spirit is the spirit of truth that guild the believer teaching them obedience.
John 16:13
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.
Then the fruits of the Holy Spirit are distinguished from the works of the flesh.
Galatians 5:19-23
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Ephesians 4:17
17So I tell you this, and insist on it in the Lord, that you must no longer walk as the Gentiles do, in the futility of their thinking. 18They are darkened in their understanding and alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardness of their hearts. 19Having lost all sense of shame, they have given themselves over to sensuality for the practice of every kind of impurity, with a craving for more.
20But this is not the way you came to know Christ. 21Surely you heard of Him and were taught in Him—in keeping with the truth that is in Jesus— 22to put off your former way of life, your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; 23to be renewed in the spirit of your minds; 24and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.
25Therefore each of you must put off falsehood and speak truthfully to his neighbor, for we are all members of one another. 26“Be angry, yet do not sin.”d Do not let the sun set upon your anger, 27and do not give the devil a foothold.
28He who has been stealing must steal no longer, but must work, doing good with his own hands, that he may have something to share with the one in need.
29Let no unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building up the one in need and bringing grace to those who listen.
30And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, in whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
31Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, outcry and slander, along with every form of malice. 32Be kind and tenderhearted to one another, forgiving each other just as in Christ God forgave you.
The Holy Spirit is the spirit of truth that guild the believer teaching them obedience.
John 16:13
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.
Then the fruits of the Holy Spirit are distinguished from the works of the flesh.
Galatians 5:19-23
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
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You miss the point. Some where along the way you have adopted ' Lordship salvation ' . In simple terms Paul is saying because you ARE and because you HAVE now live in light of your reality and position . Your coming at this from a works based mind set. Which is fleshy thinking. Fleshy thinking always goes to 'works ' . Its the default position especially for non Christians .
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Amen! In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no resulting evidential works (to substantiate his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith.
*So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine.
*So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine.
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YESUAH DIED TO PAY MY SIN debt, THE sin that I had committed, The wages of braking GOD Commandments IS DEATH, So YESUAH TOOK MY place AND died for MY SINS, THAT I COULD REPENT, AND LIVE BY GOD'S COMMANDMENTS, and stay BECAUSE HE LOVED ME, And wanted me to be in HEAVEN,
So I LOVE HIM because he loved me and paid for MY SINS, THIS is the GRACE that YESUAH gives us,
YESUAH does not GIVE THE grace THAT lets us continue in sin and GO to HEAVEN, HEAVEN would end up
being just like this sinful Earth, And he is not going to allow that, That is why that he lets Satan try us to see if we love him, and will choose not to sin,
God hates Sin, and is GOING to DESTROY ALL OF IT, if we hold on to sin till we die, we will have sin on us , AND GOD WILL DESTROY US WITH THE SIN THAT WE DID NOT GIVE UP. We can not have our sin and HEAVEN TOO.
So I LOVE HIM because he loved me and paid for MY SINS, THIS is the GRACE that YESUAH gives us,
YESUAH does not GIVE THE grace THAT lets us continue in sin and GO to HEAVEN, HEAVEN would end up
being just like this sinful Earth, And he is not going to allow that, That is why that he lets Satan try us to see if we love him, and will choose not to sin,
God hates Sin, and is GOING to DESTROY ALL OF IT, if we hold on to sin till we die, we will have sin on us , AND GOD WILL DESTROY US WITH THE SIN THAT WE DID NOT GIVE UP. We can not have our sin and HEAVEN TOO.