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Here you go again inverting the scripture. The nation that was born in a day is the nation that was born THE DAY JESUS CHRIST WAS BORN!
Isa 66:7 Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.
Isa 66:8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion (NOT MT SINAI) travailed, she brought forth her children.
Jesus Chris IS NOT the child of the BOND WOMAN! That teaching is heretical and disgusting!
Edit: Please repent and withdraw your statement.
Isa 66:7 Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.
Isa 66:8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion (NOT MT SINAI) travailed, she brought forth her children.
Jesus Chris IS NOT the child of the BOND WOMAN! That teaching is heretical and disgusting!
Edit: Please repent and withdraw your statement.
I already said that, under Israel’s program for salvation, none of them has salvation when they repented.
Israel sins will only be blotted out at Jesus 2nd coming for the nation. (Acts 3:19-21)
Don’t you find it strange you cannot find a single scripture passage stating that those Nineveh were saved?
Israel sins will only be blotted out at Jesus 2nd coming for the nation. (Acts 3:19-21)
Don’t you find it strange you cannot find a single scripture passage stating that those Nineveh were saved?
The gt is Jacob's trouble/ Israel's trouble.
The 144k are firstrfruits.
"Firstfruits establishes 2 things
1) that main harvest follows
2) that it is jewish harvest.
Gods covenant people,the Jews gathered.
They see him.
In rev 14
On a cloud
They acknowledge him,as messiah,and are raptured.
Some are resurrected at the gwt judgement and I assume,acknowledge him. (Not sure about that.)
Was reading hosea this am and saw that massive longing in Gods heart for his adulterous wife (the Jews)
Gomer
The 144k are firstrfruits.
"Firstfruits establishes 2 things
1) that main harvest follows
2) that it is jewish harvest.
Gods covenant people,the Jews gathered.
They see him.
In rev 14
On a cloud
They acknowledge him,as messiah,and are raptured.
Some are resurrected at the gwt judgement and I assume,acknowledge him. (Not sure about that.)
Was reading hosea this am and saw that massive longing in Gods heart for his adulterous wife (the Jews)
Gomer
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And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. Mt.8:11
ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God Lk.13:28
Many read the OT, but never see the Patriarchs and prophets there.
ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God Lk.13:28
Many read the OT, but never see the Patriarchs and prophets there.
K
I go to church on Sunday. I'm not a Judaizer. But the Bible does not say the church supersedes the Jewish people. It does not say that once the NT began, God was done with the Jews and now it's the church that gets the blessings and the Jews get all the curses. It doesn't say the Jews are beyond hope. We've mentioned Romans 11 here already. Blinded for a time.
No, there is no way you can say the church is the chosen people. The church is not a nation. Israel is the nation that was born in a day. This "spiritual" people is a lie, it's heresy. The church is the church, the nation is Israel and the Jewish people. In Romans 9-11 they are both being referred to separately. You cannot replace the word nation with church. The only way you can is if you are twisting Scripture.
Lets put those verses in context shall we. Back up and read who Paul is speaking to. Who is his audience.
For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen”
He says “kinsmen according to the flesh“ physical kinsmen, not spiritual. “Israelites” , not the church.
" Paul states that to these Israelites pertained to the adoption, the giving of the law which was given to Moses, not the church, the covenants (plural) which was given to Israel, not the church, the service of God, the Levitical priesthood, which was exclusively Israel, not the church, and the promises. Thus Paul is clearly identifying national, corporate Israel made up of physical Jews.
He continues saying “Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect”.
For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.” Galations 4:22-27
Those who were born to Hagar and her son Ishmael, were not considered part of the lineage.
Quoting a Bible scholar here "
"from Isaac was born Jacob to whom the promises to Isaac and Abraham were then reaffirmed. Genesis 25:19-26; 26:1-6; 28:10-22. To Isaac, however, was born 2 sons, Jacob and Esau. Esau gave up his birthright (Gen 25:34) and eventually produced the Edomites which persecuted Jacob and his offspring all throughout the Old Testament. Because of Esau’s trading his birthright and his treatment of Israel (read Obadiah), God said that He hated Edom which was shown to demonstrate how Esau was not the recipient of the promises, but Jacob’s heritage was
Now this part is CRITICAL to understanding why God has not written off Israel. Jacob then had twelve sons, and the promise to Abraham was then given through Joseph, and to Joseph’s youngest son, Ephraim. Genesis 48:1-22. Pay attention on purpose now. The promise of the Messiah went through the line of Judah, Genesis 49:1-12, but the physical blessings promised to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob went through Ephraim!
"The church inherited the spiritual promises to Abraham that were given while he was yet in uncircumcision. Romans 4:9. These blessings were inherited THROUGH CHRIST FROM THE LINE OF JUDAH. From Judah “came the chief ruler” Jesus Christ. Rev 5:5. But the physical land promises go through the line of Ephraim which of whose “genealogy is not to be reckoned after the birthright”.
And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the Lord thy God.” Amos 9:15 Not the church!!
Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.” Ezekiel 37:12 Still not the church!!
And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all.” Ezekiel 37:22
During the “time of Jacob’s trouble” (Jer 30:7), the veil will be lifted from Israel, and the gospel will be preached to the Jew and welcomed. Although the promise to Ephraim is yet to be fulfilled, and the “gifts and calling of God are without repentance” (Romans 11:29), the Jew must still acknowledge Christ as their Messiah (Matthew 23:39). One hundred and forty four thousand Jews will be sealed out of the 12 tribes of Israel (Rev 7:4-8), led by 2 witnesses, Moses and Elijah (Rev 11:3-7) who reach the Jews for the first 3 1/2 years of the tribulation. They are then killed by the dragon (Rev 11:7-8) after he is ousted from the heavens (Rev 12:3-12) which begins the last 3 1/2 years (Rev 13:4-7) in fulfillment of the 3rd woe of Revelation 8:13.
The Jews as a whole will receive Christ as those who reject Christs admonition to flee to the mountains (Matt 24:16) who are helped by God and hidden (Revelation 12:6, 14, Isaiah 26:20), and who have not remained to carry the testimony of Jesus Christ (Rev 12:17) will be killed. So by the end of the tribulation, only a remnant of believing Jews are left (Rom 9:27) and thus literally, all Israel is saved (Romans 11:26).
No, Paul wasn't a racist, but he's not saying what you think he is saying. I hope you give this some honest thought and prayer. You are in error. The church has it's place, but it's not Israels place, not the Jewish peoples place
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No, there is no way you can say the church is the chosen people. The church is not a nation. Israel is the nation that was born in a day. This "spiritual" people is a lie, it's heresy. The church is the church, the nation is Israel and the Jewish people. In Romans 9-11 they are both being referred to separately. You cannot replace the word nation with church. The only way you can is if you are twisting Scripture.
Lets put those verses in context shall we. Back up and read who Paul is speaking to. Who is his audience.
For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen”
He says “kinsmen according to the flesh“ physical kinsmen, not spiritual. “Israelites” , not the church.
" Paul states that to these Israelites pertained to the adoption, the giving of the law which was given to Moses, not the church, the covenants (plural) which was given to Israel, not the church, the service of God, the Levitical priesthood, which was exclusively Israel, not the church, and the promises. Thus Paul is clearly identifying national, corporate Israel made up of physical Jews.
He continues saying “Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect”.
For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.” Galations 4:22-27
Those who were born to Hagar and her son Ishmael, were not considered part of the lineage.
Quoting a Bible scholar here "
"from Isaac was born Jacob to whom the promises to Isaac and Abraham were then reaffirmed. Genesis 25:19-26; 26:1-6; 28:10-22. To Isaac, however, was born 2 sons, Jacob and Esau. Esau gave up his birthright (Gen 25:34) and eventually produced the Edomites which persecuted Jacob and his offspring all throughout the Old Testament. Because of Esau’s trading his birthright and his treatment of Israel (read Obadiah), God said that He hated Edom which was shown to demonstrate how Esau was not the recipient of the promises, but Jacob’s heritage was
Now this part is CRITICAL to understanding why God has not written off Israel. Jacob then had twelve sons, and the promise to Abraham was then given through Joseph, and to Joseph’s youngest son, Ephraim. Genesis 48:1-22. Pay attention on purpose now. The promise of the Messiah went through the line of Judah, Genesis 49:1-12, but the physical blessings promised to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob went through Ephraim!
Now the sons of Reuben the firstborn of Israel, (for he was the firstborn; but forasmuch as he defiled his father’s bed, his birthright was given unto the sons of Joseph the son of Israel: and the genealogy is not to be reckoned after the birthright. For Judah prevailed above his brethren, and of him came the chief ruler; but the birthright was Joseph’s
” 1 Chronicles 5:1-2
To sum this up, you could have been born TO Abraham, but not be OF Abraham because you were not IN ISAAC. Then you could have been born TO Isaac, but not be born OF Isaac because you were not from Jacob."” 1 Chronicles 5:1-2"The church inherited the spiritual promises to Abraham that were given while he was yet in uncircumcision. Romans 4:9. These blessings were inherited THROUGH CHRIST FROM THE LINE OF JUDAH. From Judah “came the chief ruler” Jesus Christ. Rev 5:5. But the physical land promises go through the line of Ephraim which of whose “genealogy is not to be reckoned after the birthright”.
And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the Lord thy God.” Amos 9:15 Not the church!!
Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.” Ezekiel 37:12 Still not the church!!
And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all.” Ezekiel 37:22
During the “time of Jacob’s trouble” (Jer 30:7), the veil will be lifted from Israel, and the gospel will be preached to the Jew and welcomed. Although the promise to Ephraim is yet to be fulfilled, and the “gifts and calling of God are without repentance” (Romans 11:29), the Jew must still acknowledge Christ as their Messiah (Matthew 23:39). One hundred and forty four thousand Jews will be sealed out of the 12 tribes of Israel (Rev 7:4-8), led by 2 witnesses, Moses and Elijah (Rev 11:3-7) who reach the Jews for the first 3 1/2 years of the tribulation. They are then killed by the dragon (Rev 11:7-8) after he is ousted from the heavens (Rev 12:3-12) which begins the last 3 1/2 years (Rev 13:4-7) in fulfillment of the 3rd woe of Revelation 8:13.
The Jews as a whole will receive Christ as those who reject Christs admonition to flee to the mountains (Matt 24:16) who are helped by God and hidden (Revelation 12:6, 14, Isaiah 26:20), and who have not remained to carry the testimony of Jesus Christ (Rev 12:17) will be killed. So by the end of the tribulation, only a remnant of believing Jews are left (Rom 9:27) and thus literally, all Israel is saved (Romans 11:26).
No, Paul wasn't a racist, but he's not saying what you think he is saying. I hope you give this some honest thought and prayer. You are in error. The church has it's place, but it's not Israels place, not the Jewish peoples place
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The men of Nineveh will rise up in the judgment with this generation and condemn it,
because they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and indeed a greater than Jonah is here.
(Matthew 12:41)
you don't seem to accept their belief & repentance and the LORD's mercy on them as evidence He saves them, but do you suppose that God accepts the judgement of the damned? why is He saying these men will condemn unbelieving Israel if they are likewise damned, and there is no difference? Christ directly links Himself to Jonah in this passage ((also Luke 11)) and by explicitly identifying by way of contrast those who rejected Him at His appearing, He directly links those who do believe Him with repentance to the Ninevites who turned in faith to God at the preaching of Jonah, looking for ((& receiving)) His mercy.
is God's mercy real or is it only a temporary illusion of mercy? the LORD is telling us Jonah & Ninevah is a picture of Him -- if that picture is a picture only of a deception of salvation which results in condemnation, then the picture is telling us none of us are saved either; that there is no salvation at all & God is a liar.
it seems to me that either Christ is making faulty analogies or Christ is telling us that those Ninevites were redeemed and saved just as we who believe Him now are. i do not believe God speaks with a forked tongue.
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The context of Ephesians 2:11-12 starts in Ephesians 2:1-2. And who was dead in trespasses and sins? The Ephesians who in times past had no hope in leaving off sinning prior to Christ's sacrifice.
Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; 2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; 2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
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Yes
The blood
No other can save.
The patriarchs were sealed for a future washing in the blood.
Paradise was a holding tank for them until that blood application.
They were justified by faith in something they could not understand.
Washing in blood.
Gods people are as moses wife said "bloody"
There is no redemption without the blood.
All MUST PASS through it.
No "purchase"
That is why the innumerable number of back sliders needed washing in heaven.
"They have washed their robes IN THE BLOOD"
backsliders are covenant rebels with "dirty robes"
Only people with rebellious children can appreciate the lengths God goes to because they are his own family. His heart reaches PAST THE INTENSE HURT.
The hypocrite gets in as dirty.
Gods love is not like ours. It is deep,deep,deep.
The ocean depths dont even do it justice.
That is real good news to the backslider.
The blood
No other can save.
The patriarchs were sealed for a future washing in the blood.
Paradise was a holding tank for them until that blood application.
They were justified by faith in something they could not understand.
Washing in blood.
Gods people are as moses wife said "bloody"
There is no redemption without the blood.
All MUST PASS through it.
No "purchase"
That is why the innumerable number of back sliders needed washing in heaven.
"They have washed their robes IN THE BLOOD"
backsliders are covenant rebels with "dirty robes"
Only people with rebellious children can appreciate the lengths God goes to because they are his own family. His heart reaches PAST THE INTENSE HURT.
The hypocrite gets in as dirty.
Gods love is not like ours. It is deep,deep,deep.
The ocean depths dont even do it justice.
That is real good news to the backslider.
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K
The program that God has for the nation of Israel is entirely different from the program that He has in mind for the church. The promises that God has given to Israel are directed toward the literal, physical Jew of the literal and physical land of Israel. So even though not all who were born to Abraham were of Abraham, and not all who were born to Isaac were of Isaac, and not all who were born to Jacob were of Jacob, neither are those who are of the church, “OF Israel” either. The church or “ekklesia” is a called out assembly that had a starting point (whether you believe began with Peter in Matthew 16, or with Pentecost in Acts 1-2) that inherits spiritual blessings of faith that was fulfilled in Christ through the tribe of Judah, but no part of the church is included in the fulfillment of the promises yet to be consummated in Ephraim and the restoration of the divided land of Israel. The church includes Gentiles that were grafted in to those spiritual promises, and they will be grafted out when the times of the Gentiles are completed (Romans 11:25), and God again turns His attention back to the nation of Israel. The Gentiles were branches, they were not the ROOT. The Gentiles were grafted into an OLIVE TREE (Romans 11:15-24) through Judah (Jeremiah 11:16), Israel is a FIG TREE. Matthew 24:32, Joel 1:7, Hosea 9:10.
Romans 9 has ONE premise in mind, to answer the question about the Jew (“Hath God cast away his people which he foreknew?” Romans 11:2) and our relevance to the future in light of Israel’s rejection of Messiah to which Paul affirms that “NO” He has not cast away the Jew, because God intends to save a remnant of JEWS within a NATION OF JEWS. This is the significance of the illustration Paul uses of the story of God reserving 7,000 Jews OUT OF A POOL OF OTHER JEWS in Romans 11:1-5 (with 1 Kings 19:18, Romans 9:27).
Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated” means God chose Jacob OVER Esau it does not mean He literally hated Esau. Jesus said in Luke 14:26 ” If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.” Did He literally mean hate?! No, of course not. Paul was talking about a nation, not a person and of His choosing one above another.
Romans 9 has ONE premise in mind, to answer the question about the Jew (“Hath God cast away his people which he foreknew?” Romans 11:2) and our relevance to the future in light of Israel’s rejection of Messiah to which Paul affirms that “NO” He has not cast away the Jew, because God intends to save a remnant of JEWS within a NATION OF JEWS. This is the significance of the illustration Paul uses of the story of God reserving 7,000 Jews OUT OF A POOL OF OTHER JEWS in Romans 11:1-5 (with 1 Kings 19:18, Romans 9:27).
Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated” means God chose Jacob OVER Esau it does not mean He literally hated Esau. Jesus said in Luke 14:26 ” If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.” Did He literally mean hate?! No, of course not. Paul was talking about a nation, not a person and of His choosing one above another.