In Canada where Restaurant owners are dragged off in handcuffs for breaking COVID mandates.

[iamsoandso]

i cant wait until they realize that in 1.501(c)(3) of the tax exempt forms they filed to be tax exempt(Churches) that they agreed to be "non biased" as to those candidates and that they agreed that they would not say "vote for/don't vote for" unless they want their tax exempt status revoked. Which means that if the MoS was running for office they agreed not to be biased. https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CHRG-107hhrg80331/html/CHRG-107hhrg80331.htm

 

[EleventhHour]

Make sure you wear a mask in public places

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1332423354217869312

Ridiculous and the reason why the USA is where it is.
They paid dearly in the past and it is going to happen once again.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

lol, yep March seems to be some line in the sand for sure. I don't understand March or mask being the imaginary line though when mandates have gone on for so long now but I guess people catch on slow. There is a mandate to wear seat belts, and one for car insurance. You have to have a drivers license to drive,an inspection sticker and a license plate.

In most states they passed laws and you have to have a title for outboard motors,boats trailers(even a trolling motor) but since no one had to have them before the 1990's then there's a bunch of old boats sitting in everyone's yard and motors in their garage because they cant get them legal to sell them or use them.

In the cities you are told if you can move a mobile home in or not and how old it can be. You have to ask permission to build a fence or add a room to your house and buy a permit. If you own your own land and you need to remove the roots out of the leach lines that's illegal unless you call one of the ones that lobbied to make it illegal.

You cant build a porch without a permit and pay them for inspecting it and there's a list of plants and trees you cannot plant in most states. You have to have all your shots to go to school. You need a permit to add a room on your house. MacDonald's can make employees wear a hat and glove's and Walmart can make theirs wear a smock.

They've been forcing you by mandates to do most things for years now, I wondered how long it would be before anyone figured it out. The list of things that we are forced to do by mandate just goes on and on but to fix it we would need to go back to the 50's when all these mandates were not yet law. I'm glad to see you all catching on that you aren't really free anymore who cares if if was March that it took to wake you up it's just a drop in the bucket.

Question. Which are mandates vs voted in by people to make it a law? For example, the use of a seat belt was voted in by citizens to become law. Mask mandates are not at least in America, I do not know of Canada.

If we the people voted away our rights then we deserve the consequences. But if we did not then there is no law to abide by and it would be illegal to force people to do so through law enforcement. That is tyrannical.

I'm glad to see you all catching on that you aren't really free anymore

Freedom is misunderstood when used compared to liberty. We give up absolute freedom to live together in a society. We agree on what laws to abide by. In America, our founders proclaimed certain inalienable rights that no man could give or take. Those are God-given and absolute. Those rights in society are within our liberty but under society, we have laws that defend others God-given rights. For example, we have the right to life but if we take someone's life then we abandoned our liberty by treading on someone else's right. And we justly can lose our life. In absolute freedom, you do not have laws.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

i cant wait until they realize that in 1.501(c)(3) of the tax exempt forms they filed to be tax exempt(Churches) that they agreed to be "non biased" as to those candidates and that they agreed that they would not say "vote for/don't vote for" unless they want their tax exempt status revoked. Which means that if the MoS was running for office they agreed not to be biased. https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CHRG-107hhrg80331/html/CHRG-107hhrg80331.htm

Which is why a church should be separated from government in the proper sense. Give to Caesar what is due. And speak boldly with no filter.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

a restaurant isnt an essential service, it could be argued the restautant owner just wanted to make a buck.

I would have more respect for this guy if he used his restaurant kitchen to prepared meals for those who were sick and delivered them free of charge to peoples homes.

Could be argued that it was essential to his livelihood. Bills, rent, car payment, groceries, or just to keep his business from closing.

 

[iamsoandso]

Question. Which are mandates vs voted in by people to make it a law? For example, the use of a seat belt was voted in by citizens to become law. Mask mandates are not at least in America, I do not know of Canada.

If we the people voted away our rights then we deserve the consequences. But if we did not then there is no law to abide by and it would be illegal to force people to do so through law enforcement. That is tyrannical.



Freedom is misunderstood when used compared to liberty. We give up absolute freedom to live together in a society. We agree on what laws to abide by. In America, our founders proclaimed certain inalienable rights that no man could give or take. Those are God-given and absolute. Those rights in society are within our liberty but under society, we have laws that defend others God-given rights. For example, we have the right to life but if we take someone's life then we abandoned our liberty by treading on someone else's right. And we justly can lose our life. In absolute freedom, you do not have laws.

As for seat-belt laws I think that they are different in every state but in Texas I never heard of it being voted on by it's citizens https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seat_belt_laws_in_the_United_States

As for freedom or liberty and it's wording preference just exactly how it is worded is the question I'll give you an example ,,,,

In HR 5717 it says you will be required to have a license to have a gun/ammo https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/5717 now is the second amendment rights https://constitution.congress.gov/constitution/amendment-2/ a license and if so then you already have one that cannot be infringed.

 

[SoulWeaver]

So, does anyone beating their chest self righteously and defending lockdowns know the answer, because it's not only about this guy, how are people who are unfortunate enough to do locked down things for a living supposed to feed their families? This is not just a few months, it's getting indefinite. How are they going to survive @Lanolin ? Lockdowns can continue for at least another year? Who is going to feed them? Or is it their fault somehow again? Please explain.

 

[iamsoandso]

So, does anyone beating their chest self righteously and defending lockdowns know the answer, because it's not only about this guy, how are people who are unfortunate enough to do locked down things for a living supposed to feed their families? This is not just a few months, it's getting indefinite. How are they going to survive @Lanolin ? Lockdowns can continue for at least another year? Who is going to feed them? Or is it their fault somehow again? Please explain.

At some point I think that we would need to look at this from both sides of the issue. That would only be fair if we consider what you are saying about those who need to make money(a living) because it is a real issue to be considered about this problem. To me I think that the fault is not in any of us(citizens) and we should be patient with each others opinions.

The fault if you consider is that we have been paying taxes year after year to the Government and they have given X amount of dollars to the CDC,Military,health departments,Surgeon general ect. and when this all began in 2019/20 there was no plan in place what so ever. Now it's not as though this was something that caught anyone off guard as if no one thought this might ever happen because it did a hundred years ago and all throughout history.

So then if in the movies,novels ect. there are soldiers,CDC ect. that swoop in with suits and mask and get things under control where were they when this all began? If you notice the first thing that they(our governments) did was to have a meeting to pass stimulus packages(which means they had no pre planned response). If either of the two parties(R&D's) would have used the money paid to them to pre-plan for an pandemic then by now the one would be bragging about the things they put in place when their administration was in charge.

We have not seen either of the two boasting about the measures they put in place years ago(spent our money on) because they never planned for an pandemic. What we did see was them having to get motor companies to make respirators and companies who had outsourced their labor to china being told that the shipments were to come to the US first.

So then it's very provable that neither of the two(Democrats nor Republicans) had any plan if so the Military would have been sitting on 328 million mask for all of us to wear if an enemy attacked us with(?),,or Yellowstone erupted,,,or...(the list goes on). So put the blame exactly where it goes and ask them just what they've been doing all these years instead of making plans for this,,I mean even Hollywood is smart enough to write into a script that the Government was ready and had things under control. What happened to the real Government we've been paying to do this?

 

[SoulWeaver]

At some point I think that we would need to look at this from both sides of the issue. That would only be fair if we consider what you are saying about those who need to make money(a living) because it is a real issue to be considered about this problem. To me I think that the fault is not in any of us(citizens) and we should be patient with each others opinions.

The fault if you consider is that we have been paying taxes year after year to the Government and they have given X amount of dollars to the CDC,Military,health departments,Surgeon general ect. and when this all began in 2019/20 there was no plan in place what so ever. Now it's not as though this was something that caught anyone off guard as if no one thought this might ever happen because it did a hundred years ago and all throughout history.

So then if in the movies,novels ect. there are soldiers,CDC ect. that swoop in with suits and mask and get things under control where were they when this all began? If you notice the first thing that they(our governments) did was to have a meeting to pass stimulus packages(which means they had no pre planned response). If either of the two parties(R&D's) would have used the money paid to them to pre-plan for an pandemic then by now the one would be bragging about the things they put in place when their administration was in charge.

We have not seen either of the two boasting about the measures they put in place years ago(spent our money on) because they never planned for an pandemic. What we did see was them having to get motor companies to make respirators and companies who had outsourced their labor to china being told that the shipments were to come to the US first.

So then it's very provable that neither of the two(Democrats nor Republicans) had any plan if so the Military would have been sitting on 328 million mask for all of us to wear if an enemy attacked us with(?),,or Yellowstone erupted,,,or...(the list goes on). So put the blame exactly where it goes and ask them just what they've been doing all these years instead of making plans for this,,I mean even Hollywood is smart enough to write into a script that the Government was ready and had things under control. What happened to the real Government we've been paying to do this?

I am discussing this rather globally, not only about America.

You are right about unpreparedness. I was for a 1 month of extreme lockdown with extreme quarantining. If there's no influx of people from abroad, or they are admitted in after 2 weeks in quarantine in a facility near the border/some facility near airport, EVERYTHING could be reopened after just a few weeks, and we wouldn't be talking about any of this now. There's a Wall St businessman who proposed this early, but nobody listened to him. I'd add that businesses were equally unprepared, in my opinion, it's 21st century and for many kinds of jobs, people who wish so should be able to work from home, on their own schedule, it saves time, money, reduces traffic, increases personal happiness, improves efficiency; I've been saying this for many years. But people like to control and micromanage people, they think they will get more done if they drag people into offices, which is why we won't have that any time soon.

It's not realistic to expect people to close their businesses indefinitely and not provide them means to do so. Maybe USA is able to provide financially. But some other governments, even with best effort, cannot even afford to pay for such long lockdowns. So it is wrong to expect people to obey what would mean becoming homeless for many. Also curfews are stupid because they force people to flock to stores and shop their necessities more at the same time, instead of dispersing crowds, most would naturally avoid shopping in peak hours.

But what upsets me the most is blatant disregard of other lives. People who work in "essential" services, or are retired (or on disability income), do not seem to have a single care about others. They just expect everybody to close and risk becoming homeless with their families, meanwhile calling them monsters and uncaring. Lockdowns of businesses cannot really solve the problem we have, because of the duration that is demanded. Something dragged out to this degree with no end in sight creates other, potentially a lot worse, economic and social problems. Rise in poverty is followed by rise in crime and drug use. It's not about "loving money"! Do people not understand what comes next when so many people fall under the poverty line? They don't care how many people and children killed themselves since lockdowns started. Saving lives? I guess saving some lives, but flushing others down the drain. And they think of themselves to be some champions of compassion.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

As for seat-belt laws I think that they are different in every state but in Texas I never heard of it being voted on by it's citizens https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seat_belt_laws_in_the_United_States

As for freedom or liberty and it's wording preference just exactly how it is worded is the question I'll give you an example ,,,,

In HR 5717 it says you will be required to have a license to have a gun/ammo https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/5717 now is the second amendment rights https://constitution.congress.gov/constitution/amendment-2/ a license and if so then you already have one that cannot be infringed.

being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

Bill 5717 was introduced by a GA Democrat. If it indeed, passed the House, Senate, and the Executive then it would become law. But technically it would be unconstitutional and a constitutional supreme court should shut it down because the legal route would be to amend the Constitution and that is really hard to do.

So they prey on the citizens and congress's ignorance of the Constitution and hope a tyrant executive branch will pass it and enforce it while they pack the supreme and lower courts with radical judges who will stay silent.

This bill would be unconstitutional.

 

[iamsoandso]

I am discussing this rather globally, not only about America.

You are right about unpreparedness. I was for a 1 month of extreme lockdown with extreme quarantining. If there's no influx of people from abroad, or they are admitted in after 2 weeks in quarantine in a facility near the border/some facility near airport, EVERYTHING could be reopened after just a few weeks, and we wouldn't be talking about any of this now. There's a Wall St businessman who proposed this early, but nobody listened to him. I'd add that businesses were equally unprepared, in my opinion, it's 21st century and for many kinds of jobs, people who wish so should be able to work from home, on their own schedule, it saves time, money, reduces traffic, increases personal happiness, improves efficiency; I've been saying this for many years. But people like to control and micromanage people, they think they will get more done if they drag people into offices, which is why we won't have that any time soon.

It's not realistic to expect people to close their businesses indefinitely and not provide them means to do so. Maybe USA is able to provide financially. But some other governments, even with best effort, cannot even afford to pay for such long lockdowns. So it is wrong to expect people to obey what would mean becoming homeless for many. Also curfews are stupid because they force people to flock to stores and shop their necessities more at the same time, instead of dispersing crowds, most would naturally avoid shopping in peak hours.

But what upsets me the most is blatant disregard of other lives. People who work in "essential" services, or are retired (or on disability income), do not seem to have a single care about others. They just expect everybody to close and risk becoming homeless with their families, meanwhile calling them monsters and uncaring. Lockdowns of businesses cannot really solve the problem we have, because of the duration that is demanded. Something dragged out to this degree with no end in sight creates other, potentially a lot worse, economic and social problems. Rise in poverty is followed by rise in crime and drug use. It's not about "loving money"! Do people not understand what comes next when so many people fall under the poverty line? They don't care how many people and children killed themselves since lockdowns started. Saving lives? I guess saving some lives, but flushing others down the drain. And they think of themselves to be some champions of compassion.

I'm disabled but I also said that you are correct and that I thought that we should see this from "both sides" so I hope you don't think that everyone retired or on ss/ssi believes in some sort of lock down. I cant speak for everyone though,just me. Somehow though it looks like there will need to be a half way point in figuring out what to do and it looks as if we people/peoples are going to have to do this on our own because on a world wide scope it seems that not many other Governments were any more prepared for this than the US was(the thread being about Canada who didn't seem prepared for it either).


In the Great depression the people were able to farm because there were still working farms in those days. Also the government granted farms to families so that they could feed themselves and so although poor they could still raise food. Today though with very few family owned farms and approx. 9 billion people on the planet the economy crumbling like back then would cause a completely different outcome.

Most would be homeless as you say because they are either paying notes on a home or living in an rent home/apartment. So then if the economy crumbles because of this then those buying a home and those renting would not only be homeless but they would starve because they would not have any place(arable land) to farm. The water(lakes,rivers ect.) are polluted and so they would not have drinking water. Even if they tried to move into government owned land(parks/wilderness) there would not be enough wildlife to feed them all.

So there absolutely cannot be another depression type event in the future because it will become a mass starvation event that will spread worldwide. In short I do not know how we will keep the economy up and running but even I who am on ssi will not probably receive support if the economy crumbles and so we should all look at this as if we are in this together,because we are.

 

[iamsoandso]

being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

Bill 5717 was introduced by a GA Democrat. If it indeed, passed the House, Senate, and the Executive then it would become law. But technically it would be unconstitutional and a constitutional supreme court should shut it down because the legal route would be to amend the Constitution and that is really hard to do.

So they prey on the citizens and congress's ignorance of the Constitution and hope a tyrant executive branch will pass it and enforce it while they pack the supreme and lower courts with radical judges who will stay silent.

This bill would be unconstitutional.

Yes it was originally introduced by Democrats but portions of it are also being endorsed by Republicans https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/5717 and https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th...5717/cosponsors?searchResultViewType=expanded because it is not an act to "seize all firearms" but the way it is written it is a "gun violence prevention and safety act of 2020" but I agree I cannot see how it could be constitutional to require a license if we are guaranteed it as a "constitutional right" unless the person commits a felony crime.

 

[SoulWeaver]

I'm disabled but I also said that you are correct and that I thought that we should see this from "both sides" so I hope you don't think that everyone retired or on ss/ssi believes in some sort of lock down. I cant speak for everyone though,just me. Somehow though it looks like there will need to be a half way point in figuring out what to do and it looks as if we people/peoples are going to have to do this on our own because on a world wide scope it seems that not many other Governments were any more prepared for this than the US was(the thread being about Canada who didn't seem prepared for it either).


In the Great depression the people were able to farm because there were still working farms in those days. Also the government granted farms to families so that they could feed themselves and so although poor they could still raise food. Today though with very few family owned farms and approx. 9 billion people on the planet the economy crumbling like back then would cause a completely different outcome.

Most would be homeless as you say because they are either paying notes on a home or living in an rent home/apartment. So then if the economy crumbles because of this then those buying a home and those renting would not only be homeless but they would starve because they would not have any place(arable land) to farm. The water(lakes,rivers ect.) are polluted and so they would not have drinking water. Even if they tried to move into government owned land(parks/wilderness) there would not be enough wildlife to feed them all.

So there absolutely cannot be another depression type event in the future because it will become a mass starvation event that will spread worldwide. In short I do not know how we will keep the economy up and running but even I who am on ssi will not probably receive support if the economy crumbles and so we should all look at this as if we are in this together,because we are.

No, no, by no means do I think everyone in these groups is like that. But I did notice the tendency that people who do not run a "non essential" business nor work in one are the advocates of extended lockdown.
I really want to say, and please allow me to rephrase it, "many among those whose income isn't affected by the lockdowns". Of course, that not everyone in this group is insensitive.
Amen on your last sentence. What goes around comes around. It's why I'm saying, those people may lose jobs and people maybe think "it won't affect me", but oh it's going to affect everybody. Nothing is isolated in this universe.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Yes it was originally introduced by Democrats but portions of it are also being endorsed by Republicans https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/5717 and https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th...5717/cosponsors?searchResultViewType=expanded because it is not an act to "seize all firearms" but the way it is written it is a "gun violence prevention and safety act of 2020" but I agree I cannot see how it could be constitutional to require a license if we are guaranteed it as a "constitutional right" unless the person commits a felony crime.

Oh of course there are a few Republicans who we would happily send to Democrat central of LA or NY.

Gun violence is done by people who are not law-abiding. So it is the criminals they need to go after. Better yet go to the source of crime. Immorality. Address the heart issues, promote healthy families and schools that produce good citizens not ones that want to give everything and riot in the streets.

 

[iamsoandso]

No, no, by no means do I think everyone in these groups is like that. But I did notice the tendency that people who do not run a "non essential" business nor work in one are the advocates of extended lockdown.
I really want to say, and please allow me to rephrase it, "many among those whose income isn't affected by the lockdowns". Of course, that not everyone in this group is insensitive.
Amen on your last sentence. What goes around comes around. It's why I'm saying, those people may lose jobs and people maybe think "it won't affect me", but oh it's going to affect everybody. Nothing is isolated in this universe.

I agree I am an old man in my family and live on a fixed income but,,,,I am also the father of five sons(one has passed away) but the four still living(and their families) are in the group you are speaking of who will face devastation if this is not addressed. I cannot but just barely take care of me and my wife on my monthly check and so would be little help to my sons(families) nor any of our friends. I'm glad we spoke about this because there's not anyone safe from the economy/Covid problem and the two cannot be separated because neither of the two are a hoax and so both need to be addressed with due respect or one will overrun the other.

 

[SoulWeaver]

I agree I am an old man in my family and live on a fixed income but,,,,I am also the father of five sons(one has passed away) but the four still living(and their families) are in the group you are speaking of who will face devastation if this is not addressed. I cannot but just barely take care of me and my wife on my monthly check and so would be little help to my sons(families) nor any of our friends. I'm glad we spoke about this because there's not anyone safe from the economy/Covid problem and the two cannot be separated because neither of the two are a hoax and so both need to be addressed with due respect or one will overrun the other.

I agree, and a large part of the reason why people stopped cooperating is because governments politicized the issue and wouldn't allow scientific debate. This raised suspicions, people started believing the virus was non existent. So many things went wrong, and governments kept meddling among neighbors trying to nanny us. The media was then used to divide people and "shame" them. When will they learn that this just alienates people all the more? Or maybe that's where they really wanted us? People were on board initially to help one another, but cooperation was lost because collectively we were treated like idiots by the media, and also ordinances that were not well thought out were forced, in order for people to feel safe and to feel like their authorities are "getting something done", which goes back to what you said, governments showed great incompetence globally. But I think the biggest villain was the media, they incited so much hatred this year that they have outdone themselves it's a historic record of evil they have achieved.

 

[iamsoandso]

I agree, and a large part of the reason why people stopped cooperating is because governments politicized the issue and wouldn't allow scientific debate. This raised suspicions, people started believing the virus was non existent. So many things went wrong, and governments kept meddling among neighbors trying to nanny us. The media was then used to divide people and "shame" them. When will they learn that this just alienates people all the more? Or maybe that's where they really wanted us? People were on board initially to help one another, but cooperation was lost because collectively we were treated like idiots by the media, and also ordinances that were not well thought out were forced, in order for people to feel safe and to feel like their authorities are "getting something done", which goes back to what you said, governments showed great incompetence globally. But I think the biggest villain was the media, they incited so much hatred this year that they have outdone themselves it's a historic record of evil they have achieved.

Yea to me it's like the media is another political party all their own but we cant "vote them out of office". I guess I could change the channel or not watch it at all but then I wouldn't know if it's going to freeze or if were at war with the Martians. What I do most times is watch it about the first five or ten minutes(the part where they go 'breaking as we come on the air' like the skies falling) and then when they start with dancing with the stars and such I mute the TV and read the ticker tape at the bottom to see the actual news stories and google them to see for myself.

It's probably easier to watch football to hear the news nowadays because they show less football and more news when I do but it's gotten more political than sports it's own self. The news though I agree is a major problem and it always has been from the beginning(first printed news) and have always been known for stretching the stories way out of the scope of truth.

Elizabeth loftus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Loftus is a cognitive scientist along with several hundred others heavily funded in research in planting "false memories". The project Camelot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Camelot is a program to control the population(s) by using the media,libraries,www ect. and neither of the two are conspiracies" if you notice both being admitted to by their own sources. Never be taken in by the influences of the media it is a tool to them and they admit it.

 

[EleventhHour]

Question. Which are mandates vs voted in by people to make it a law? For example, the use of a seat belt was voted in by citizens to become law. Mask mandates are not at least in America, I do not know of Canada.

If we the people voted away our rights then we deserve the consequences. But if we did not then there is no law to abide by and it would be illegal to force people to do so through law enforcement. That is tyrannical.



Freedom is misunderstood when used compared to liberty. We give up absolute freedom to live together in a society. We agree on what laws to abide by. In America, our founders proclaimed certain inalienable rights that no man could give or take. Those are God-given and absolute. Those rights in society are within our liberty but under society, we have laws that defend others God-given rights. For example, we have the right to life but if we take someone's life then we abandoned our liberty by treading on someone else's right. And we justly can lose our life. In absolute freedom, you do not have laws.

Do you vote in fire regulations, building codes etc.,?

 

[gb9]

Do you vote in fire regulations, building codes etc.,?

so, still no condemnation of tyrannical gov. strong arming citizens .

this is why i stopped interacting with you.

you seem to have some type of condition that prevents your hand from typing anything negative about heavy-handed gov. tactics ,but when it comes to bashing trump, that condition suddenly gets a lot better....

 

[Absolutely]

Do you vote in fire regulations, building codes etc.,?

Indirectly yes.

Both municipal statutes and state statutes are created/ammended/removed through those we vote for.