Ok, good. So we agree that God from all eternity past knows who will believe and who will not? Yes?
Simple yes or no please. I’m leading up to something.
Lordship salvation vs. "easy believism"
- Thread starter MyrtleTrees
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Ok, good. So we agree that God from all eternity past knows who will believe and who will not? Yes?
Simple yes or no please. I’m leading up to something.
I said a long time ago now that probably God being out side of time , from his perspective sees the past , present and future at a glance.Ok, good. So we agree that God from all eternity past knows who will believe and who will not? Yes?
Simple yes or no please. I’m leading up to something.
For us the most important perspective is ours . Its the one we make our choices . Which are real choices with real consequences.When does He find out who will believe and what His Calling is for them.
I base my entire hope on my predestination to glorification. Not on a mysterious ' election ' that supposedly took place in eternity past in the mind of God . The bible doesn't speak this way . Its a distortion of a couple of verses taken out of context because Agustine decided he needed to have 'regeneration preceding faith '.we don’t base our doctrine on what we think is most beneficial do we?
I just liked and replied to an old post in the “ Not of Works thread”. It is very close to what I believe (not entirely, but close.). Go check it out.
Ok, good. So we agree that God from all eternity past knows who will believe and who will not? Yes?
Simple yes or no
I see Election is not to salvation but service. You would never arrive at the conclusion that people are elected TO BE converted from the bible alone .we don’t base our doctrine on what we think is most beneficial do we?
I just liked and replied to an old post in the “ Not of Works thread”. It is very close to what I believe (not entirely, but close.). Go check it out.
The problems with most of christianity stem from this error on ' Election ' and Predestination. . There is basically three main views.we don’t base our doctrine on what we think is most beneficial do we?
I just liked and replied to an old post in the “ Not of Works thread”. It is very close to what I believe (not entirely, but close.). Go check it out.
1) Calvinism
2) Soft Calvinism ( Armianism)
3)
Predestination is of existing saints to adoption/glorification, not sinners to conversion. (Eph. 1:5, 11; Rom. 8:23, 29-30)
Election is to service, calling and purpose, not to salvation. (Isa. 42:1; Acts 9:15; Rom. 11:28)
Adoption is the future redemption of the body, not conversion. (Rom. 8:23, 15-17; Gal. 4:1-6)
Sinners become sons of God through the new birth, not through adoption. (John 1:12-13)
There are 2 callings: Gospel and vocational, not inward or outward or effectual or ineffectual, etc… (2 Thess. 2:14; Eph. 4:1; Rom. 8:28; 2 Cor. 5:20)
I said a long time ago now that probably God being out side of time , from his perspective sees the past , present and future at a glance.
Ok, so then He knew what He would call you to be and what your purpose was from infinity past too, right? Yes or no? For everyone, right?
The problems with most of christianity stem from this error on ' Election ' and Predestination. . There is basically three main views.
1) Calvinism
2) Soft Calvinism ( Armianism)
3)
Predestination is of existing saints to adoption/glorification, not sinners to conversion. (Eph. 1:5, 11; Rom. 8:23, 29-30)
Election is to service, calling and purpose, not to salvation. (Isa. 42:1; Acts 9:15; Rom. 11:28)
Adoption is the future redemption of the body, not conversion. (Rom. 8:23, 15-17; Gal. 4:1-6)
Sinners become sons of God through the new birth, not through adoption. (John 1:12-13)
There are 2 callings: Gospel and vocational, not inward or outward or effectual or ineffectual, etc… (2 Thess. 2:14; Eph. 4:1; Rom. 8:28; 2 Cor. 5:20)
Did God know what your calling and service would be in eternity past? So then when did He predestinate our calling, service, and purpose?
In eternity past.
I base my entire hope on my predestination to glorification. Not on a mysterious ' election ' that supposedly took place in eternity past in the mind of God . The bible doesn't speak this way . Its a distortion of a couple of verses taken out of context because Agustine decided he needed to have 'regeneration preceding faith '.
When did God predestine you to be glorified? Countless eons after He already knew you were going to be glorified? I think not
If God can see the future at a glance, He knew from eternity past that you would be saved, that you would be His child, what your purpose, calling and service would be, and that you would be glorified.
So if He knew all this from eternity past, why would He wait to choose/elect what He already knows.
Sounds like from His perspective all of it was ALREADY SETTLED.
In eternity past.
I see Election is not to salvation but service. You would never arrive at the conclusion that people are elected TO BE converted from the bible alone .
Is electing synonomous with choosing? If so, did God know something infallibly aeons before He chose it?
So He had infallible knowledge of all these things, but He did not choose them for aeons?
So when did God choose your purpose and the service that He would call you to? He waited Countless aeons to choose things He already infallibly knew?
Did God know what your calling and service would be in eternity past? So then when did He predestinate our calling, service, and purpose?
In eternity past.
When did God predestinate you unto glorification? When you were saved?
So He did not have that in mind for you, when He knew in eternity past that you would be saved, and therefore also glorified?
So it was foreknown by God, but not yet predestinated?
So if God didn’t predestinate it, who did? Seeing He had infallible foreknowledge of it from eternity past?
When did God predestine you to be glorified? Countless eons after He already knew you were going to be glorified? I think not
If God can see the future at a glance, He knew from eternity past that you would be saved, that you would be His child, what your purpose, calling and service would be, and that you would be glorified.
So if He knew all this from eternity past, why would He wait to choose/elect what He already knows.
Sounds like from His perspective all of it was ALREADY SETTLED.
In eternity past.
This brings us to a problem. If God infallibly knows what He will choose , ( our service, purpose, and glorification, etc), but does not choose it until we choose, yet He already knows what we will choose... does that mean He chooses what has already been determined by something outside of Himself?
I only have verses that put God predestinating only those in Christ . I only have a verse that says ( to the Church, the one body ) that we are known of God as a son only . Prior to that it seems that we are not known, but strangers and without hope .Did God know what your calling and service would be in eternity past? So then when did He predestinate our calling, service, and purpose?
In eternity past.
eph 2.11-13
expand...When did God predestine you to be glorified? Countless eons after He already knew you were going to be glorified? I think not
If God can see the future at a glance, He knew from eternity past that you would be saved, that you would be His child, what your purpose, calling and service would be, and that you would be glorified.
So if He knew all this from eternity past, why would He wait to choose/elect what He already knows.
Sounds like from His perspective all of it was ALREADY SETTLED.
In eternity past.
When did God predestine you to be glorified? Only those in him .
expand...
When did God predestine you to be glorified? Only those in him .
Seeing that God knew all things in eternity past, including our glorification, in light of that, you don’t think it was already predestined?
I only have verses that put God predestinating only those in Christ . I only have a verse that says ( to the Church, the one body ) that we are known of God as a son only . Prior to that it seems that we are not known, but strangers and without hope .
eph 2.11-13
Did God know He was going to adopt you from eternity past?
God chose that all those in Christ to do and to be . Remember its all about Jesus , not us . WHEN we get in him ,THEN things happen . Israel for example is God's first born son . We gentiles were STRANGERS AND WITHOUT HOPE .Is electing synonomous with choosing? If so, did God know something infallibly aeons before He chose it?
So He had infallible knowledge of all these things, but He did not choose them for aeons?
So when did God choose your purpose and the service that He would call you to? He waited Countless aeons to choose things He already infallibly knew?
Again ,your getting into philosophy. The scriptures say ONLY those IN HIM are predestined to be conformed to his image. No lost person is predestined to anything.Seeing that God knew all things in eternity past, including our glorification, in light of that, you don’t think it was already predestined?
God chose that all those in Christ to do and to be . Remember its all about Jesus , not us . WHEN we get in him ,THEN things happen . Israel for example is God's first born son . We gentiles were STRANGERS AND WITHOUT HOPE .
You didnt answer the question. When did God chose your purpose and sphere of service?
Seeing He knows all things from eternity past.
If He knew your purpose, calling, and service from eternity past, doesn’t it follow He chose them in eternity past?
Or did someone or something choose for Him?
Of course He chose and knew these things from eternity past.
Again ,your getting into philosophy. The scriptures say ONLY those IN HIM are predestined to be conformed to his image. No lost person is predestined to anything.
So God knew from eternity past that we would be glorified, but did not predestine it? So basically, God knows things before He ordains them? Wow
Who’s in control?