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Jesus has many Crowns right? He has many Thrones in ref to what they represent.
The great white Throne
The Throne of David
The Thorne of Majesty
The Throne of Christ
there is not necessarily more than one throne but what Jesus is doing at the time HE is on it. Judging the unsaved, judging the works of the saved. He has many crowns also means Titles of Authority
The one of David will never go away God said Jesus is the son of David the final King to forever sit on Davids's Throne therefore God keeps HIS word forever.
first, you must understand prophetic writing have a two-fold application a now coming and a soon to be or a present usage and a future fulfillment
in Daniel chapter 9 Daniel is fasting and praying and repenting for the nation of Israel. and Daniel was asking what is the vision he saw mean. That answer was coming and then was given starting at verse 24. which nothing says in any way abomination that made Jerusalem desolate because of the murdered Jesus.
in Daniel chapter 9 Daniel is fasting and praying and repenting for the nation of Israel. and Daniel was asking what is the vision he saw mean. That answer was coming and then was given starting at verse 24. which nothing says in any way abomination that made Jerusalem desolate because of the murdered Jesus.
I understand the argument, but a lot of people challenge the understanding of the throne of David, and it fails to explain return to animal sacrifices.
What comes to my mind is Paul explaining, "one is a Jew that is Jew inwardly" so Paul and the other Jewish believers and the believing Gentiles are counted as Jews because they believe. Otherwise Jesus failed in His mission to gather the lost children of Israel - some Jews by blood died unbelieving - but ALL believers are gathered without fail. So if the Jew is inwardly now, would not the throne be inwardly as well?
What comes to my mind is Paul explaining, "one is a Jew that is Jew inwardly" so Paul and the other Jewish believers and the believing Gentiles are counted as Jews because they believe. Otherwise Jesus failed in His mission to gather the lost children of Israel - some Jews by blood died unbelieving - but ALL believers are gathered without fail. So if the Jew is inwardly now, would not the throne be inwardly as well?
The bible is pretty clear that the 70 years was for the Jews to finish their transgression against God and for Christ to come and make an end of our sins, make reconciliation between man and God, to bring in the righteousness of Christ for the believer, to fulfill OT prophecy and anoint Jesus King of kings.
Would you not agree that this is the way it went down?
Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
Would you not agree that this is the way it went down?
Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
I am not disagreeing with that but that is not what you said before. The great sn was rejecting the Messiah of God and expecting another. Because they have done so God used other nations to destroy their foundation of faith in the temple because They rejected the Eternal salvation, God would not allow any other.
I don't think it's "challenging the throne of David". There's no doubt that the throne of David belongs to Jesus. I think people are just trying to make sense where the throne is, since some things did change, the Bible says that, yes?
If the Kingdom comes not by observation, how is the throne of that kingdom going to be observed?
All these things were changed "God having provided some better thing", but the throne is supposed to be unchanged, and physically observed, and not upgraded into a "some better thing"? It really does not compel me... I did use to believe they would dig out some ancient throne and all that, so it's not like my reason for not believing it now was doubt or lack of faith. I just find it very hard to believe now because of context.
"For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law."
Jew criterion is now said to be inward:
"But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly "
The law is now said to be inward:
"I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them"
The priesthood is now said to be inward:
"ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood" - yet no robes, mithre, physical temple, physical Levitical lineage, etc...
The kingdom is now inward (which is hard to separate from the throne):
"cometh not by observation"
"the kingdom of God is within you"
The temple is now inward:
"as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house"
"Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?" - not physically observable
The Promised land is now inward:
"And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect."
"But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly "
The law is now said to be inward:
"I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them"
The priesthood is now said to be inward:
"ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood" - yet no robes, mithre, physical temple, physical Levitical lineage, etc...
The kingdom is now inward (which is hard to separate from the throne):
"cometh not by observation"
"the kingdom of God is within you"
The temple is now inward:
"as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house"
"Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?" - not physically observable
The Promised land is now inward:
"And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect."
If the Kingdom comes not by observation, how is the throne of that kingdom going to be observed?
All these things were changed "God having provided some better thing", but the throne is supposed to be unchanged, and physically observed, and not upgraded into a "some better thing"? It really does not compel me... I did use to believe they would dig out some ancient throne and all that, so it's not like my reason for not believing it now was doubt or lack of faith. I just find it very hard to believe now because of context.
Just imagine:
Jesus came to physically rule, all the bloodline Jews have gathered into the country of Israel, an ancient palace was excavated somewhere around Fort Antonia and Jesus is now sitting there, on a genuine physical throne of David. Since the man of sin who dared to interrupt sacrifices is now removed, his evil work is undone and the sacrifices have since returned. Every day a bunch of sheep, goats and pigeons is being slaughtered before Jesus as worshipful offerings for the glory of God.
Just vividly picture all the animals dying, please.
Jesus came to physically rule, all the bloodline Jews have gathered into the country of Israel, an ancient palace was excavated somewhere around Fort Antonia and Jesus is now sitting there, on a genuine physical throne of David. Since the man of sin who dared to interrupt sacrifices is now removed, his evil work is undone and the sacrifices have since returned. Every day a bunch of sheep, goats and pigeons is being slaughtered before Jesus as worshipful offerings for the glory of God.
Just vividly picture all the animals dying, please.
Also, that was supposed to be the time when the lion and the lamb would literally lie down together, so physical Jesus rule on earth is supposed to be the time when killing among animals is over right? So they are all lying down peacefully because this was God's goal to bring peace. So now all the killings and bloodshed are in the Temple? Am I the only one to whom this makes no sense?
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Study the passage surrounding this verse:
"As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes."
[see also including the "blindness [/hardening]... UNTIL" part
(THIS "UNTIL" corresponds to a number of OTHER "UNTIL" passages re: the SAME Subject!)]
...and this:
"whom indeed it behooves heaven to receive until the times of restoration OF ALL THINGS OF WHICH GOD SPOKE BY the mouth of His holy prophets from the age." [that is, OT prophets concerning OT prophecies...]
And then consider also this:
[quoting old posts]
Here's what I've posted in the past:
[quoting my past posts on this]
I'm looking for a different quote by George V Wigram... but (in the meantime) in its place, I'll just post this brief portion also by him (note the phrase "God's governmental ways on earth," which is what I believe Roman's 11's "olive tree" represents):
[quoting Wigram]
"Gen. 27:29 [Isaac blessing Jacob]. Let peoples (gamnzim, pl.), serve thee and [manners or sorts of ] nations (l'ummim, pl.) bow down to thee: be lord [a mighty man] over thy brethren.
"Observe, this would not run the source of the division of people back to Shem, Ham and Japhet, so as to make the word to be equivalent to what we call the races of people, in connection with the Noahic earth, who constitute the whole human family. The subdivision here alluded to took place in the family of Isaac, type of the heir of promise, not earlier; and the heads of this subdivision are brought before us in Rom. 9 All God's ways and subdivisions are to be noted."
[also]
"f Israel is the goh'y of experience, promise, blessing on the earth; the center of all God's governmental ways on earth; but in saying that, I look at them from outside and as one whole. When they are owned as gammi, my people, their detailed state and associations within is the aspect in which they are considered."
--George V Wigram
http://bibletruthpublishers.com/heb...t-testimony-psalms-article/g-v-wigram/la61041
____________
[quoting that other article by Wigram]
"[re: Romans 11] In Jesus Christ, if the question be about Christian position, eternal life, or the Church considered in her essential relationship to Christ, there was neither Jew nor Gentile; the thoughts found in this chapter [Romans 11] can THERE have no place. If the question be about the cutting off of an individual for sinful conduct, little matters it whether he be Jew or Gentile; that has nothing to do with it, and on the other hand, there would be no question about grafting in again of the Jews more than of any others, and neither Jews nor others could be grafted in, if God had cut them off in such a manner. And if it were a question about a warning from the Apostle to Christians at Rome, and so to others elsewhere, as being brethren, it would be almost nonsense to say, " And thou, O Gentile, take heed!" Why, thou, O Gentile? Had not Christians, Jews by birth, as much need to take heed? Or could the Spirit of God, in such a warning, have made the distinction, and thus denied the principle of, the Church of God in which there is neither Jew nor Gentile? If the question is about a divine administration upon earth, then God can well make the distinction and develop his ways towards the one and the other; and it is plain that from the commencement of the ninth chapter the Apostle is occupied with and pointedly contrasts the Jews and the Gentiles, presenting us with the administration of the divine ways upon the earth. First declaring his attachment to Israel, he points out an election in the election for the earth, and further, that if God according to his sovereignty had chosen Israel (and such was Israel's boast), He had not renounced His sovereignty; and consequently, He could call the Gentiles if he would [i.e. if He so willed, and HE DID!]. Then he recalls to mind that the prophets had shown that a little remnant only, of Israel, at such an epoch, would be saved, and that a stone of stumbling would be laid in Zion."
-- Thoughts on Romans 11 and the Responsibility of the Church, Present Testimony: Volume 4 George V. Wigram
http://bibletruthpublishers.com/tho...the-church/present-testimony-volume-4/la85282
[end quoting; bold and underline mine, some/most bracketed inserts mine]
[end quoting old posts]
"As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes."
[see also including the "blindness [/hardening]... UNTIL" part
(THIS "UNTIL" corresponds to a number of OTHER "UNTIL" passages re: the SAME Subject!)]...and this:
"whom indeed it behooves heaven to receive until the times of restoration OF ALL THINGS OF WHICH GOD SPOKE BY the mouth of His holy prophets from the age." [that is, OT prophets concerning OT prophecies...]
And then consider also this:
[quoting old posts]
Here's what I've posted in the past:
[quoting my past posts on this]
I'm looking for a different quote by George V Wigram... but (in the meantime) in its place, I'll just post this brief portion also by him (note the phrase "God's governmental ways on earth," which is what I believe Roman's 11's "olive tree" represents):
[quoting Wigram]
"Gen. 27:29 [Isaac blessing Jacob]. Let peoples (gamnzim, pl.), serve thee and [manners or sorts of ] nations (l'ummim, pl.) bow down to thee: be lord [a mighty man] over thy brethren.
"Observe, this would not run the source of the division of people back to Shem, Ham and Japhet, so as to make the word to be equivalent to what we call the races of people, in connection with the Noahic earth, who constitute the whole human family. The subdivision here alluded to took place in the family of Isaac, type of the heir of promise, not earlier; and the heads of this subdivision are brought before us in Rom. 9 All God's ways and subdivisions are to be noted."
[also]
"f Israel is the goh'y of experience, promise, blessing on the earth; the center of all God's governmental ways on earth; but in saying that, I look at them from outside and as one whole. When they are owned as gammi, my people, their detailed state and associations within is the aspect in which they are considered."
--George V Wigram
http://bibletruthpublishers.com/heb...t-testimony-psalms-article/g-v-wigram/la61041
____________
[quoting that other article by Wigram]
"[re: Romans 11] In Jesus Christ, if the question be about Christian position, eternal life, or the Church considered in her essential relationship to Christ, there was neither Jew nor Gentile; the thoughts found in this chapter [Romans 11] can THERE have no place. If the question be about the cutting off of an individual for sinful conduct, little matters it whether he be Jew or Gentile; that has nothing to do with it, and on the other hand, there would be no question about grafting in again of the Jews more than of any others, and neither Jews nor others could be grafted in, if God had cut them off in such a manner. And if it were a question about a warning from the Apostle to Christians at Rome, and so to others elsewhere, as being brethren, it would be almost nonsense to say, " And thou, O Gentile, take heed!" Why, thou, O Gentile? Had not Christians, Jews by birth, as much need to take heed? Or could the Spirit of God, in such a warning, have made the distinction, and thus denied the principle of, the Church of God in which there is neither Jew nor Gentile? If the question is about a divine administration upon earth, then God can well make the distinction and develop his ways towards the one and the other; and it is plain that from the commencement of the ninth chapter the Apostle is occupied with and pointedly contrasts the Jews and the Gentiles, presenting us with the administration of the divine ways upon the earth. First declaring his attachment to Israel, he points out an election in the election for the earth, and further, that if God according to his sovereignty had chosen Israel (and such was Israel's boast), He had not renounced His sovereignty; and consequently, He could call the Gentiles if he would [i.e. if He so willed, and HE DID!]. Then he recalls to mind that the prophets had shown that a little remnant only, of Israel, at such an epoch, would be saved, and that a stone of stumbling would be laid in Zion."
-- Thoughts on Romans 11 and the Responsibility of the Church, Present Testimony: Volume 4 George V. Wigram
http://bibletruthpublishers.com/tho...the-church/present-testimony-volume-4/la85282
[end quoting; bold and underline mine, some/most bracketed inserts mine]
[end quoting old posts]
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Here's how I see the following passage:
Zech14 -
All Nations Will Worship the King
(Leviticus 23:33–44; Nehemiah 8:13–18)
16 Then all the survivors from the nations that came against Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the LORD of Hosts, and to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles.d 17 And should any of the families of the earth not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of Hosts, then the rain will not fall on them. 18 And if the people of Egypt will not go up and enter in, then the rain will not fall on them; this will be the plague with which the LORD strikes the nations who do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles. 19 This will be the punishment of Egypt and of all the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles.
20 On/In that day, HOLY TO THE LORDe will be inscribed on the bells of the horses, and the cooking pots in the house of the LORD will be like the sprinkling bowls before the altar. 21 Indeed, every pot in Jerusalem and Judah will be holy to the LORD of Hosts, and all who sacrifice will come and take some pots and cook in them. And on/in that day there will no longer be a Canaanitef [/merchant/trader/trafficker - H3669] in the house of the LORD of Hosts.
As I see it (and I believe one can deduce this from Scripture [John 1:14 "the Word was made flesh and TABERNACLED among us," for just ONE example; the "24 courses" being another such figuring factor (the birth of John the Baptist, and all)]), I think the Feast of Tabernacles is the day He was BORN (i.e. "His BIRTHDAY"), and I see no problem at all if He desires such a "celebration" (in just such a way)... which is here called "worship".
[I personally like to eat a good steak on MY birthday, but that's just me ]
Zech14 -
All Nations Will Worship the King
(Leviticus 23:33–44; Nehemiah 8:13–18)
16 Then all the survivors from the nations that came against Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the LORD of Hosts, and to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles.d 17 And should any of the families of the earth not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of Hosts, then the rain will not fall on them. 18 And if the people of Egypt will not go up and enter in, then the rain will not fall on them; this will be the plague with which the LORD strikes the nations who do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles. 19 This will be the punishment of Egypt and of all the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles.
20 On/In that day, HOLY TO THE LORDe will be inscribed on the bells of the horses, and the cooking pots in the house of the LORD will be like the sprinkling bowls before the altar. 21 Indeed, every pot in Jerusalem and Judah will be holy to the LORD of Hosts, and all who sacrifice will come and take some pots and cook in them. And on/in that day there will no longer be a Canaanitef [/merchant/trader/trafficker - H3669] in the house of the LORD of Hosts.
As I see it (and I believe one can deduce this from Scripture [John 1:14 "the Word was made flesh and TABERNACLED among us," for just ONE example; the "24 courses" being another such figuring factor (the birth of John the Baptist, and all)]), I think the Feast of Tabernacles is the day He was BORN (i.e. "His BIRTHDAY"), and I see no problem at all if He desires such a "celebration" (in just such a way)... which is here called "worship".
[I personally like to eat a good steak on MY birthday, but that's just me
]