If a Sabbath is forced, Will you keep Sunday holy?

UCA4J · Dec 11, 2020

it was the answer to the question.

Blik · Dec 12, 2020

No I’ve made no accusation against the lord , never would just to be clear that’s something you have concluded and I would appreciate you not doing that , but that’s up to you bro .

I think it’s hard for some to accept scriptures they don’t agree with and sometimes we look to argue and accuse and build accusations against others especially if scripture is very clear and abundant

so no I have no accusation against the lord or his word , let’s see if you have an issue with the lord and his word now that we have revelation in the New Testament now that the gospel of the kingdom is the doctrine

the purpose of the law is to shut self righteous mouths and prideful hearts and quiet boastful Men by holding all the world all people guilty it’s purpose isn’t justification but accusation

“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:19-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The breaking of the covenant became a curse so those who now try to serve God by moses law are partaking of that curse and they cannot ever find justification they seek in that law

“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse:

for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith:

but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:10-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We’ve died to the law through baptism it was necessary because Sin that is in our hearts and minds feeds on rebellion against whatever God says not to do. So the knowledge of sin inside of us produces must for the forbidden things

“Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held;

that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:4-11‬ ‭

The law doesn’t work for righteousness because we are flawed we’re not holy and the law demanded holiness of sinners it can only condemn and accuse a sinner it cannot remit our sins or cleanse our hearts which was the issue .

son will always use the law against a person to create desire for what is forbidden because of the flesh the law of sin that is within us makes us doomed under the law not because it’s bad but because mankind isn’t what it demands of them we needed new birth , needed a covenant and a law that works for us to cleanse our hearts and minds and change our thinking and desires to God we don’t need any further knowledge of sin and death we need the knowledge now of salvation

The two covenants each have thkernoen mediator We didn’t come to moses and his mediation but we came to Christ and his mediation the difference is life and death

I think even today this holds true for some who are tying both covenants together and pressing the old law on the new covenant it’s hard for them to see like that

“Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:

But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same veil untaken away in the reading of the old testament;

which veil is done away in Christ.

But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the veil is upon their heart.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭3:12-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

There are two covenants they each have a law one is flesh one is spirit Moses spoke one Jesus the other

“Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:

But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:27-28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We are to follow the spirit , the flesh will always fail because it’s only a taunt to sinful flesh , the gospel is about solving the issue in us so we can be free

First, I am not accusing. I said IF. I agree that a lot of this can be cleared by simply understanding God gave the law with rules in stone that could be misinterpreted, and with the new covenant the law was given in our hearts, so it included love.

I once spent several months of many hours a day trying to find the answer to the question of what seems to be a disagreement in scripture about the law of Moses. If we don't separate "the law of Moses" "the ten commandments" and the laws of the Lord, then scripture does disagree with scripture. I found the answer to my satisfaction, I have stated what I found and most posters dispute it, because I found that at the time of Paul people were talking a lot about the law of Moses. The council of the Pharisees made 18 rules, like circumcision, they must follow to join. You read of this in Acts. These laws were called the law of Moses. Scripture isn't clear to us today when Paul was speaking of these laws and when Paul spoke of the guidance the Lord gives us, but in the original language and to the people the letters were written to, it was clear to them.

People were accepting the Lord with the Jews, then breaking away because they would rather party with their pagan friends. The

bud62 · Dec 12, 2020

Pilgrimshope said:

Brother I’m saying Jesus is God manifest fully to the earth , and we need to keep his commandments , Moses commandments aren’t for us

the commandments are fulfilled when we aren’t doing evil against our neighbor no harm , but we are rather living a life that includes helping people who are in greater need than ourselves

Jesus came so we can know who our God is really and truly . What he truly desires of us what he requires of us . Who we are to him , who he is to us , the type of relationship he wills for us to have with him . How we are supposed to treat others , how we are to think about others , how we are to live our lives in this world

those are Gods commandments his law of the spirit , the things our Lord Jesus Christ taught those spiritual understandings that aren’t really “ rules “ so much as understandings and a way to see the world and the kingdom of God

things like his parables it’s not a list of rules it’s more Jesus teaching is how to think about different important things we need to follow the laws that created within our believing hearts and minds sort of believe , grow and follow where his teachings , his commandments lead us

my only Point with this is We the church don’t have a relationship with God based on anything moses said to the children of Israel not his law , nor his intercession when God was going to destroy them , not the book of the law , not the blood of calves and goats he shed and said “ this is the blood of the covenant God has enjoined to you according to all I have commanded you “

It’s about Abraham’s promise when he was told “ in thy seed shall all nations be blessed “ when that promise was made and Abraham’s name was changed and he was made “ the father of many nations “

melchezidek is the priest of God who blesses that covenant promise with bread and wine . Blessing Abraham and blessing God making it the only covenant on the Bible to come about through the intermission of melchezidek

when the children of Israel are delivered from Egypt by God and promised the inheritance of the land of Israel when they receive thier law , it comes through moses , and the priest is made Aaron who becomes the new accepted order of God the Levite’s , when the blood is shed under the law it is of bulls , goats , and calves , their temple in which they serve is Made by mans hands It is all far less than the new things

Jesus the mediator is greater than Moses , Gods deliverance of his people from sin and death is greater than Egypt , our promised land of a new perfect world is greater than theirs of a nation of land on a corrupt earth , the blood that was shed according to the word that was spoken by Jesus is far and away better and greater than anything moses had said before or the blood of animals could offer

Jesus Christ is our lawgiver the old law is like trying to read Gods law while looking through a dark veil with dim candlelight seeing shapes and letters but not seeing it for what it really is , the things Jesus taught is to see Gods law in truth plainly laid out for all to believe

we need to Repent and believe the gospel and that will lead us where we need to be but we’ll never go back to moses at any point but for to learn of the order of things along the way

GODS ten commandments is Our part of the New covenant to GOD, To willfully break GOD'S ten commandments, Is to Break our with GOD, And puts us in A lost position with GOD, Till we repent and GET YESUAH'S blood applied to that sin also, God Bless, as GOD sees good for you

SophieT · Dec 12, 2020

bud62 said:

You seem to fail to understand that Jesus fulfilled all of the law and further, He summed up the commandments, illustrating the intent.

28Now one of the scribes had come up and heard their debate. Noticing how well Jesus had answered them, he asked Him, “Which commandment is the most important of all?”

29Jesus replied, “This is the most important: ‘Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is One. 30Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’g 31The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ No other commandment is greater than these.” Mark 12

Further, Paul sums up the law using the same intent.

The entire Law is fulfilled in a single decree: "Love your neighbor as yourself." Galatians 5:14

The anti-scriptural insistence that you must worship God on Saturday is revealing of an individual who needs to get their relationship with Jesus in order. Jesus Himself said that NO commandment was greater than the one to love.

SophieT · Dec 12, 2020

bud62 said:

The 10 commandments are NOT part of the NC. If you say you have never sinned in any part, then you make God out as a liar as John states so plainly when he is addressing Christians.

If we say we have not sinned, we make Him out to be a liar, and His word is not in us. I John 1:10. Notice John says 'we', both indicating that he includes himself and the fact he is writing to other believers. If you have revolving door type of Christianity, then I would put it to you, that you are not secure in your belief and your faith is in your own works and NOT what Jesus did for you and everyone else who has accepted Him as the ONLY Way, Truth and Life.

The commandments were never given as a way to salvation. In fact, the purpose was to illustrate sin and condemn the sinner. Nothing has changed. You are a sinner if you do not place your complete trust in the Lord Jesus Christ. He is our Passover Lamb and our High Priest. Passover is over and our High Priest in heaven has made complete atonement for our sins.

gb9 · Dec 12, 2020

keep in mind, you are talking to a guy who thinks women should not wear pants.....

SophieT · Dec 12, 2020

gb9 said:

And unmarried at that. No clue.

Wondering if mini skirts must be ok then?

posthuman · Dec 12, 2020

Pilgrimshope said:

hi,
i don't agree that teaching from Moses' law 'has nothing to do with the gospel' -- on the basis that all the law & the prophets testify of Christ. the thing is that we are supposed to search these scriptures & find Him in them. teaching from them in a Christ-less fashion is, in my opinion, not 'rightly dividing' them.
see for example what Paul tells us is the meaning of Genesis 16, in Galatians 4. the account of Abraham, Hagar & Sarah is a true, literal story. all these things are fact and actually happened. but the reason they are in the Bible is not just to give us an historical record, but to teach us about the Messiah and the salvation of God.
this is the way we need to see and understand the law -- this is wisdom from God. all these things are revelation of Him.

so back to Numbers 15 -- we need to start asking questions. who is this man gathering sticks? why is he gathering sticks on sabbath? what is his intention? why does God command that all the congregation stone him to death? how many people are we talking about stoning him? what's that look like? why does God want everyone involved in this? why does God say this man is worthy of death? why is this account right here in Numbers - what's in Numbers 14 & Numbers 16, what relationship does Numbers 15 have with them? who does that man represent? what is the judgement and the action of the people representing? in what way is this analogous to something Christ does? does this account have a complement in the NT in the life of Jesus? immediately after this account God commands that the Israelites must wear blue tassels -- what does that have to do with it? why is that recorded immediately after the execution of the man gathering wood on sabbath? why wood? what was he going to do with the wood? what does Christ say about tassels in the NT? what events in the gospels have to do with tassels & hems of garments? how are they related? why blue? what does blue represent?

... and a thousand more questions ...

don't stop with 'o how inhumane the law was' -- the law is good. we are not under it, but it was the commandment of God to Israel, for a purpose. these things are preserved for us in order to know Him and the glory of His redemptive work. these things are testifying of Him -- they are incredibly complex jewels of truth teaching us about the Lord, with meanings hidden from those who do not believe, ready to be revealed to us who do, who search them out.

Pilgrimshope · Dec 12, 2020

posthuman said:

yes the law and prophets witness of Christ I agree with that but what I’m saying is this Moses law is the covenant that was broken And the new covenant is not according to that in any way whatsoever

“But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭8:6-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the way the law witnessed of Christ is through a figure and the things moses wrote about Jesus witness of him . What I’m saying is nothing moses commanded israel has anything to do with our covenant in other words and maybe better for you is this quote

the one we haven’t come to is moses giving of the old covenant law in exodus 19

“For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest, And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard entreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more: (For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart: And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake

But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel. See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭12:18-25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The one we have come to is the things Christ said who interceded for us like moses had interceded for them . When God declared he was going to destroy them Moses was thier intercessor eho Laid his life on the line for them and caused God to repent of destroying them all

Moses isn’t the one who interceded for us so his word isnt the one that’s for us Christ is the one who is our savior and intercessor donors his words that make our covenant with God his blood shed according to those words just loke
Moses has done with animal blood for his words and the children of Israel

the truth is if we obeyed the teachings of Moses we would be transgressing the teachings of Christ because they are different the new is not according to the old they are separate one is a curse now being broken the other is salvation

Blik · Dec 12, 2020

Pilgrimshope said:

The new covenant is about the law, and the old covenant was about the law. Under the old covenant the law was given to man with rules. It did not specify the love that was necessary for them to be valid so they could be followed legalistically but not spiritually. The new covenant gave the same laws, but in the heart.

Jeremiah 31:33 "I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts"

bud62 · Dec 12, 2020

SophieT said:

And he tells US that he hanged all the rest on them Two, there was two stones to the Commandments one to GOD AND ONE TO MAN, And that is why he hanged all the rest on them,
Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
He said that HEAVEN and EARTH, would pass away before one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. HEAVEN IS still AND the earth is still here, And SO IS HIS LAWS, To say they are not makes would be trying to MAKE HIM A liar,
Satan didn't want to GO by GOD'S LAWS ether, AND GOD THROWED him out of HEAVEN,
And GOD will SURE NOT let us in HEAVEN while we ARE BREAKING HIS LAWS,
But will destroy us along with Satan,

Magenta · Dec 12, 2020

Acts 13:38-39

Magenta · Dec 12, 2020

Romans 10:17 + Galatians 3:5

calibob · Dec 12, 2020

Magenta said:

Saved it!

bud62 · Dec 12, 2020

Magenta said:

The ten commandments is not the law of MOSES , the law of Moses was not in the inside of the ark, Moses's laws was on the outside of the Ark, But GOD's commandments was on the inside of the ark, And are OUR covenant to GOD. And to break them is to break your covenant with GOD.
Hebrews
10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: GOD DOES NOT LIE

SophieT · Dec 12, 2020

bud62 said:

The word fulfill means to complete something. Which is what I have been trying, unsuccessfully so far, to help you and a few others here see. The law is still in effect for those who put their faith in their works rather than Christ. If Christ fulfilled the law, what is there left to do?

There is no argument that the law illustrates the sin of mankind, however Christ is the way out of our predicament. He does not need your help or the help of any other person. You have broken ALL the commandments if you have only broken one. Perhaps you can look that up in the Bible?

You break His laws every single day. You have no idea how very sinful humankind actually is if you imagine yourself sinless. That alone, is a challenge to God and a lie. God will not destroy anyone whose faith is in His Son. You are misquoting the Bible and that is sin also. Trust in Christ. He alone is able to present you spotless before the Father.

bud62 · Dec 12, 2020

calibob said:

GOD SAYS he bless abraham because he
GEN 26:4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
GOD said he blessed Abraham because he kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
GEN 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

bud62 · Dec 12, 2020

SophieT said:

The word fulfill means to complete something. Which is what I have been trying, unsuccessfully so far, to help you and a few others here see. The law is still in effect for those who put their faith in their works rather than Christ. If Christ fulfilled the law, what is there left to do?

There is no argument that the law illustrates the sin of mankind, however Christ is the way out of our predicament. He does not need your help or the help of any other person. You have broken ALL the commandments if you have only broken one. Perhaps you can look that up in the Bible?

You break His laws every single day. You have no idea how very sinful humankind actually is if you imagine yourself sinless. That alone, is a challenge to God and a lie. God will not destroy anyone whose faith is in His Son. You are misquoting the Bible and that is sin also. Trust in Christ. He alone is able to present you spotless before the Father.

Means He came and kept them to show that it can be done, IF we will live in the spirit, and not obey the lust of the flesh

SophieT · Dec 12, 2020

bud62 said:

Christ was/is equal with God. He was sinless on earth because He was not born of the will of a man and a woman, but the will of God His Father, through the Holy Spirit overshadowing Mary, chosen by God to be the one to bear Christ in her womb.

I have no words I care to say in this forum if you are so deceived you would go so far as to think you can just do what Jesus did and never sin.

Your bio keeps getting worse.

bud62 · Dec 12, 2020

SophieT said:

Hebrews 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as [we are, yet] without sin.
4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.
He was in the flesh just like US,
And was tempted just like US.
He had to deal with over coming, just like WE do, THE BIBLE tells US SO.
Hebrews 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as [we are, yet] without sin.
4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

If a Sabbath is forced, Will you keep Sunday holy?

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