The Pre-Tribulation Rapture: The Blessed Hope of the Saints

TheDivineWatermark · Dec 15, 2020

Let's go with your word then:

[G1588 - eklektos / eklektōn]
1 Timothy 5:21 Adj-GMP
GRK: καὶ τῶν ἐκλεκτῶν ἀγγέλων ἵνα
NAS: Jesus and of [His] chosen angels,
KJV: Christ, and the elect angels, that
INT: and the elect angels that

So... you're saying that IN EVERY SINGLE CASE (in Scripture) this word applies [ONLY EVER] to "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" [Eph1:20-23 WHEN (as to its existence)] ??

BenjaminN · Dec 15, 2020

TheDivineWatermark said:

Agreed that they do not apply to the same event:

1. Event one "Ekpheugo"/Escape (we believers pray for it to happen immediately prior to the great tribulation, and continuously during the great tribulation, ie. pre- and mid- tribulation times), happens:

(Strongs number G1628, Greek: "Ekpheugo", English: "Flee out, escape flee, flee away, seek safety in flight")

Luke 21 (New King James Version)

The Importance of Watching
34 “But take heed to yourselves, lest your hearts be weighed down with [h]carousing, drunkenness, and cares of this life, and that Day come on you unexpectedly. 35 For it will come as a snare on all those who dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36 Watch therefore, and pray always that you may [i]be counted worthy to escape (Strongs number G1628, Greek: "Ekpheugo", English: "Flee out, escape flee, flee away, seek safety in flight") all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man.”

1. and then event two (will happen to living and raised believers, immediately after the great tribulation, ie. post-tribulation time), happens:

(Strongs number G726, Greek: "Harpazo", English: "to seize, carry off by force, claim for one's self eagerly, to snatch out or away")

1 Thessalonians 4 (New King James Version)

The Comfort of Christ’s Coming
13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen [b]asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who [c]sleep in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are [d]asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up (Strongs number G726, Greek: "Harpazo", English: "to seize, carry off by force, claim for one's self eagerly, to snatch out or away") together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

Matthew 24 gives the order of events chronologically:

14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come. 15“Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16“then let those who are in Judea flee (G5343 "Pheugo" - flee away, escape) to the mountains. 20And pray that your flight (G5437 "Phugé" - fleeing, escape, flight) may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the [c]elect’s sake those days will be shortened. 29“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His [d]elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. 38For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken (G3880 "Paralambanó" - to receive near associated with oneself, taken) (with Christ in the clouds of heaven) and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken (G3880 "Paralambanó" - to receive near associated with oneself, taken) (with Christ in the clouds of heaven) and the other left.

BenjaminN · Dec 15, 2020

TheDivineWatermark said:

There are fallen angels and chosen angels, chosen angels are part of Christ's Body, fallen angels are not.

BenjaminN · Dec 15, 2020

Blade said:

Matthew 24 gives the order of events chronologically:

14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come. 15“Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16“then let those who are in Judea flee (G5343 "Pheugo" - flee away, escape) to the mountains. 20And pray that your flight (G5437 "Phugé" - fleeing, escape, flight) may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the [c]elect’s sake those days will be shortened. 29“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His [d]elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. 38For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken (G3880 "Paralambanó" - to receive near associated with oneself, taken) (with Christ in the clouds of heaven) and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken (G3880 "Paralambanó" - to receive near associated with oneself, taken) (with Christ in the clouds of heaven) and the other left.

BenjaminN · Dec 15, 2020

TheDivineWatermark said:

There are fallen angels and chosen angels, chosen angels are part of Christ's Body, fallen angels are not.

Revelation 1 (New King James Version)
20The [l]mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand, and the seven golden lampstands: The seven stars are the [m]angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands [n]which you saw are the seven churches.

1 Timothy 5 (New King James Version)
21I charge you before God and the Lord Jesus Christ and the [g]elect [G1588 - eklektos] angels that you observe these things without prejudice, doing nothing with partiality.

BenjaminN · Dec 15, 2020

Ephesians 1 (New King James Version)
20which He worked in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, 21far above all principality[g] and [h]power and might and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in that which is to come. 22And He put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be head over all things to the church, 23which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.

BenjaminN · Dec 15, 2020

God put all under Christ Yeshua's feet, and gave Him to be head over all, to the assembly, which is His body (chosen men and angels exclusive of fallen men and angels).

Ephesians 1 (ISR 1998)
20which He wrought in the Messiah when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenlies, 21far above all rule and authority and power and mastery, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in that which is to come. 22And He put all under His feet, and gave Him to be head over all, to the assembly, 23which is His body, the completeness of Him who fills all in all.

Revelation 1 (ISR 1998)
20“The secret of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand, and the seven golden lampstands: The seven stars are messengers of the seven assemblies, and the seven lampstands which you saw are seven assemblies.

1 Timothy 5 (ISR 1998)
21I earnestly witness before Elohim and the Master יהושע Messiah, and the chosen [G1588 - eklektos] messengers, that you watch over these matters without prejudice, doing none at all with partiality.

BenjaminN · Dec 15, 2020

The new covenant of God's elect through the blood of Christ Yeshua:

Hebrews 8 (New King James Version)
A New Covenant
7For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 8Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord. 10For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 11None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. 12For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”
13In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Jeremiah 31 (New King James Version)
A New Covenant
31“Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 32not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, [h]though I was a husband to them, says the Lord. 33But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

The millennium kingdom to be inherited by fellow heirs, of believing Jews and Gentiles in the Body of Christ, as the restored Israel (adopted and scattered ancient northern Samaria's Ephraim tribes, throughout the Gentile nations; and ancient southern Judea's Judah's tribes the Jews):

Ephesians 3 (New King James Version)
The Mystery Revealed
1For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you Gentiles— 2if indeed you have heard of the [a]dispensation of the grace of God which was given to me for you, 3how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already, 4by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ), 5which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets: 6that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel, 7of which I became a minister according to the gift of the grace of God given to me by the effective working of His power.

Romans 11 (New King James Version )
Israel’s Rejection Not Final
25For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own [f]opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26And so all Israel will be [g]saved, as it is written:
“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”

The anti-christ will try to deceive many (if it was possible even God's elect), and try to steal God's kingdom here on earth, but his attempt of theft will only last three-and-a-half years, before he will be destroyed by Christ Yeshua, when Christ Yeshua's millennial reign on earth starts, at the Body of Christs' post-tribulation rapture at Christ Yeshua's second coming, immediately after the great tribulation:

2 Thessalonians 2 (New King James Version )
The Great Apostasy
1Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of [a]Christ had come. 3Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits [c]as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

Matthew 24 (New King James Version )
The Coming of the Son of Man
29“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His [d]elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Ahwatukee · Dec 15, 2020

BenjaminN said:

Hold it! The saints in the great tribulation are not sealed by God and you won't find any scripture to that affect. Only the 144,000 out of Israel are said to be sealed in their foreheads.

It is those who are currently in Christ and are watching and anticipating His return to gather the church who are not appointed to suffer God's wrath. Those saints who come out of the great tribulation are those who will have not been believers when the church is gathered but become believers after that event and which is why they will be on the earth during the time of God's wrath.

John 16 (

Click to expand...

People continue to make the mistake of not recognizing that there is a difference between the trials and tribulations that Jesus said believers would have for His name sake, which come at the hands of men and the powers of darkness vs. God's coming wrath via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. Big difference!!!

The apostles and first century church did not experience God's wrath, but the trials and persecutions that Jesus said we would have. It is the unprecedented coming wrath of God that the church is not appointed to suffer.

Those having faith, watching and anticipating the Lord's appearing for both Jew and Gentile, both belonging to the church, will be changed immortal and glorified and will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air. Those who will be on the earth after the church has been gathered and during the time of God's wrath are listed below:

* The unbelieving nation of Israel

* The 144,000 who come out of the twelve tribes of Israel acknowledging Jesus as their Messiah

* That great number of saints who will have become believers after the church has been gathered

* The wicked - all who will worship the beast, whose names were not written in the book of life before the world began

BenjaminN · Dec 15, 2020

Ahwatukee said:

Persecution and tribulation of Christians who do not take the mark of the beast, the anti-christ <> Wrath of God poured out on those that take the mark of the beast, the anti-christ

There is only two choices for all in the final generation, only two camps of peoples, during the period of the anti-christ's reign during the great tribulation, God's final harvest time, the separation of the wheat from the chaff:
either an individual is part of the
1. Persecution and tribulation of Christians who do not take the mark of the beast, the anti-christ
or an individual is part of the
2. Wrath of God poured out on those that take the mark of the beast, the anti-christ

John the Baptist (a Jew) is also part of the Bride, the Body of Christ, and suffered persecution and tribulation by having his head chopped off - it was not the wrath of God however. No believer (past, present or future in any time frame of this earth, including the great tribulation) is appointed for the wrath of God, neither believing Jews and tribulation saints. Believing Jews and believing Gentiles are part of the Body of Christ Yeshua, the Prince of God the King's to-be-restored kingdom on this earth during the 1000 years millennial reign of Christ Yeshua, reigning together with those first resurrected who died in Christ and those believers that remain at the time of Christ Yeshua's second coming. A great tribulations suffered by tribulation saints Christians, sealed by God, at the hand of a future anti-christ is not the wrath of God, the wrath of God that will be experienced during this same three and a half year period will ONLY be by those that take the mark of the anti-christ.

Revelation 16 (New King James Version)
The Seven Bowls
1Then I heard a loud voice from the temple saying to the seven angels, “Go and pour out the [a]bowls of the wrath of God on the earth.”
First Bowl: Loathsome Sores
2So the first went and poured out his bowl upon the earth, and a foul and loathsome sore came upon the men who had the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image.

Revelation 20 (New King James Version)
The Saints Reign with Christ 1,000 Years
4And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for [a]a thousand years.

Ahwatukee · Dec 15, 2020

Blade said:

It is not speculation when you make your conclusion based on all related scriptures. This is why we have God's word.

Specific scriptures aside, and regarding the timing of the gathering of the church, there is an underlying principle here, which many do not take into consideration. Jesus took upon himself the wrath of God which every believer deserves, satisfying it completely. When we believed we were credited with the righteousness of Christ and reconciled to God. Therefore, God's wrath no longer rests upon the believer. And since God's wrath via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments must take place prior to the Lord's return to the earth to end the age, then believers in the church must be gathered prior to God's coming wrath. This is a legal precedent, because God's wrath has been satisfied by Christ on our behalf.

===============================================================================
Surely He took on our infirmities and carried our sorrows; yet we considered Him stricken by God, struck down and afflicted.

But He was pierced for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon Him,

and by His stripes we are healed.
===============================================================================

Ahwatukee · Dec 15, 2020

BenjaminN said:

God's wrath will be upon the entire earth. There will be no where to hide. Therefore, the great tribulation saints will also be exposed to God's wrath, as scripture makes clear:

"Never again will they hunger; never again will they thirst. The sun will not beat down on them,’ nor any scorching heat."

Never again will they hunger: This would be in reference to the results of the opening of the 3rd seal, the rider on the black horse which represents world-wide famine - Rev.6:5-6

Never again will they thirst: This would be in reference to the 3rd trumpet when a third of the waters are contaminated as well as when all of the rivers and springs of water are turned to blood at the pouring out of the 2nd and 3rd bowl.

The sun will not beat down on them,’ nor any scorching heat: This is in reference to the 4th bowl where the angel pours his bowl upon the sun, scorching the inhabitants of the earth with fire and searing them with intense heat.

Everyone, including the great tribulation saints will be exposed to these plagues of wrath during that time. The 144,000 who are sealed with the seal of God in their forehead will be excluded from the 5th trumpet where those demonic beings resembling locust who are commanded to torment the inhabitants of the earth having tails and stings like that of scorpions. Other than that, everyone will experience God's wrath during that time.

BenjaminN · Dec 16, 2020

Ahwatukee said:

You are contradicting yourself - you say believers will not experience God's wrath - yet you say the believing great tribulation saints will experience God's wrath. They are not experiencing God's wrath, those that do not escape the persecution of the anti-christ, experience tribulation (which Jesus promised that believers will experience).

Never again will they hunger: This is because they are not allowed to buy or sell, and the anti-christ ceases all natural resources, and God guides them through difficult times.

Never again will they thirst: This is because their flight into the wilderness, to escape the anti-christ, with its scarce resources of water, eg deserts.

The sun will not beat down on them,’ nor any scorching heat: This is because their flight into the wilderness, to escape the anti-christ, with its scarce resources to use for shelter.

God's wrath is exercised on those who take the mark of the beast, the non-believers. The believers that do not take the mark of the beast does not, and cannot experience God's wrath (as you yourself points, as stated in God's word). The believers however pray to escape the persecution, and some experience the persecution of the anti-christ. Persecution because of faith, is promised by God as a possibility to be endured, in perseverance, by God's believers.

Absolutely · Dec 16, 2020

Ahwatukee said:

Hold it! The saints in the great tribulation are not sealed by God and you won't find any scripture to that affect. Only the 144,000 out of Israel are said to be sealed in their foreheads.

It is those who are currently in Christ and are watching and anticipating His return to gather the church who are not appointed to suffer God's wrath. Those saints who come out of the great tribulation are those who will have not been believers when the church is gathered but become believers after that event and which is why they will be on the earth during the time of God's wrath.

People continue to make the mistake of not recognizing that there is a difference between the trials and tribulations that Jesus said believers would have for His name sake, which come at the hands of men and the powers of darkness vs. God's coming wrath via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. Big difference!!!

The apostles and first century church did not experience God's wrath, but the trials and persecutions that Jesus said we would have. It is the unprecedented coming wrath of God that the church is not appointed to suffer.

Those having faith, watching and anticipating the Lord's appearing for both Jew and Gentile, both belonging to the church, will be changed immortal and glorified and will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air. Those who will be on the earth after the church has been gathered and during the time of God's wrath are listed below:

* The unbelieving nation of Israel

* The 144,000 who come out of the twelve tribes of Israel acknowledging Jesus as their Messiah

* That great number of saints who will have become believers after the church has been gathered

* The wicked - all who will worship the beast, whose names were not written in the book of life before the world began

The 5 foolish virgins represent half the church saved but not living holy. They are also seen in the 7 letters to 7 churches.

So the belivers left behind end up martyred right away.
They are seen in heaven bvb early on in the gt WITH WASHED ROBES. The filth had to be washed in the blood.

BenjaminN · Dec 16, 2020

Absolutely said:

One out of seven of the churches of Revelation 2&3 is "kept from" the trials coming over the earth and divinely guided through it, not "raptured from" earth.

Are we untruthfully saying the elect believers of the Body of Christ will get "left behind" based on their works... and salvation is not - by grace through faith which is the gift of God for good works prepared by God beforehand (Ephesians 2:8-10) - anymore, but selectively based only on works...? If you believe, your works prepared by God beforehand will reflect your believe, the one goes hand in hand with the other. All believers of the last generation goes through the great tribulation, and some praying to escape the tribulations of the persecution of the anti-christ, are kept from harms way by the divine guidance of God, guiding those who trust in him through this period.

Ephesians 2 (New King James Version)
8For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

Revelation 13 (Interlinear - https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/13-10.htm )
10If anyone [is to go] into captivity, into captivity he goes; if anyone with [the] sword is to be killed, it is necessary for him by [the] sword to be killed.
Here is the endurance and faith of the saints.

Luke 21 (Interlinear - https://biblehub.com/interlinear/luke/21-36.htm )
36"Watch also at every season, praying that you may have strength to escape these things all that are about to come to pass and to stand before the Son of Man.”

Revelation 3 (New King James Version)
The Faithful Church
7“And to the [e]angel of the church in Philadelphia write,
‘These things says He who is holy, He who is true, “He who has the key of David, He who opens and no one shuts, and shuts and no one opens”: 8“I know your works. See, I have set before you an open door, [f]and no one can shut it; for you have a little strength, have kept My word, and have not denied My name. 9Indeed I will make those of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews and are not, but lie—indeed I will make them come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you. 10Because you have kept [g]My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. 11 [h]Behold, I am coming quickly! Hold fast what you have, that no one may take your crown. 12He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name.
13“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.” ’

awelight · Dec 16, 2020

BenjaminN said:

I'm sorry but I have no idea where you are going with this reply. This has nothing to do with the post that I submitted. I never implied that God was finished with the Jewish remnant of the future nor that there are not Jewish believers being called out today.

The point I was making, was that the disciples, who were Jews, were also the early members of the church which Christ was building. There were things which Christ shared with them in the presents of non-believing Jews and other times when He shared things only for their ears.

Christ often hid things from non-believers or He masked them in a parable. Example: Mark 9:9 And as they were coming down from the mountain, he charged them that they should tell no man what things they had seen, save when the Son of man should have risen again from the dead. (Thus, the truth about the mount of transfiguration was to be hidden until after the Lord's resurrection).

Therefore Christ often spoke of the End Days as standing on Jewish ground and had little to say about a time when He would come to gather the Saints to Himself. This particular mystery was revealed by the Apostle Paul, who was ministering not to Israel but to the Universal Church, which constitutes the Bride of Christ. (John 3:28,29 & Rev. 21:9) Israel is never called the Bride of Christ, it was always referred to as the Wife of God. (Jer. 3:20), and often played the harlot, (Ps. 73:27). Believing Jews of all ages are the Friends of the Bride, just as John the baptizer taught:

Joh 3:27-30 John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it have been given him from heaven. Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but, that I am sent before him. He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, is the one standing and hearing him, rejoicing greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is made full. He must increase, but I must decrease.

John, who had one foot in the Old Testament dispensation and the other in the New, being a Jew, called himself the "friend" of the Bridegroom, not the "Bride" of the Bridegroom.

Therefore, the concept of the "Rapture", while foreshadowed in the OT can only be understood in the revelations of the epistle's of Paul. Whether one agrees or disagrees with the concepts of a rapture, this knowledge or lack thereof, has nothing to do with ones Salvation. Whether you are a "Pre-Mid-Post" Tribulationist and believe in a Rapture of the Saints or do not, God's Word and His promises stand sure. I believe however, if you do not believe in the Rapture, you are missing out on a great blessing.

BenjaminN · Dec 16, 2020

awelight said:

I'm sorry but I have no idea where you are going with this reply. This has nothing to do with the post that I submitted. I never implied that God was finished with the Jewish remnant of the future nor that there are not Jewish believers being called out today.

The point I was making, was that the disciples, who were Jews, were also the early members of the church which Christ was building. There were things which Christ shared with them in the presents of non-believing Jews and other times when He shared things only for their ears.

Christ often hid things from non-believers or He masked them in a parable. Example: Mark 9:9 And as they were coming down from the mountain, he charged them that they should tell no man what things they had seen, save when the Son of man should have risen again from the dead. (Thus, the truth about the mount of transfiguration was to be hidden until after the Lord's resurrection).

Therefore Christ often spoke of the End Days as standing on Jewish ground and had little to say about a time when He would come to gather the Saints to Himself. This particular mystery was revealed by the Apostle Paul, who was ministering not to Israel but to the Universal Church, which constitutes the Bride of Christ. (John 3:28,29 & Rev. 21:9) Israel is never called the Bride of Christ, it was always referred to as the Wife of God. (Jer. 3:20), and often played the harlot, (Ps. 73:27). Believing Jews of all ages are the Friends of the Bride, just as John the baptizer taught:

Joh 3:27-30 John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it have been given him from heaven. Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but, that I am sent before him. He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, is the one standing and hearing him, rejoicing greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is made full. He must increase, but I must decrease.

John, who had one foot in the Old Testament dispensation and the other in the New, being a Jew, called himself the "friend" of the Bridegroom, not the "Bride" of the Bridegroom.

Therefore, the concept of the "Rapture", while foreshadowed in the OT can only be understood in the revelations of the epistle's of Paul. Whether one agrees or disagrees with the concepts of a rapture, this knowledge or lack thereof, has nothing to do with ones Salvation. Whether you are a "Pre-Mid-Post" Tribulationist and believe in a Rapture of the Saints or do not, God's Word and His promises stand sure. I believe however, if you do not believe in the Rapture, you are missing out on a great blessing.

Jews & Gentiles (of any tribe, tongue and nation) alike may or may not be part of the Body of Christ, God's elect, his saints, those of whom are believers. The Jew & Gentile believers in Christ Yeshua are "fellow heirs" to all God's promises.

awelight · Dec 16, 2020

BenjaminN said:

Again, I think you need to stop typing randomly and start giving persons replies more attention. The subject here is not "inheritance".... it is whether or not there is going to be a Rapture.

BenjaminN · Dec 16, 2020

awelight said:

There is going to be a post-tribulation rapture of God's elect Christ Yeshua believing Jews & Gentiles, fellow heirs of his promises. Read Matthew 24 as communicated chronologically by Christ Yeshua from start to finish, with the rapture stated at the very end (after the stated great tribulation, immediately before the return of Christ Yeshua) where there will be two men, one taken and one left, two women, one taken and one left.

awelight · Dec 16, 2020

BenjaminN said:

If you study the Scripture a little closer, you will find the ones being gathered are the ones going into judgement before the Kingdom is established. The ones left are the ones entering into the Kingdom.

Neither are the members of Christ's body - the church.

The Pre-Tribulation Rapture: The Blessed Hope of the Saints

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