The Apostasy

[Corban]

I don't believe either phrase refers to "a singular 24-hr day," thus...

"the Day of the Lord" (a period-of-time-[not merely 24-hrs]-of-JUDGMENTs followed by a period-of-time-[also not merely 24-hrs]-of-BLESSINGs [ALL earthly-located]--all of that together makes up "the Day of the Lord") is:

--[DOTL] something distinct from the Subject of v.1 (which v.1 speaks solely of the Subject of our Rapture)

--[DOTL] something Paul was cautioning them not to be persuaded by false-conveyors "IS PRESENT" (and would indeed be "troubling" to them, because it starts out with the "JUDGMENTs" time-period aspect), v.2 so "don't believe THEM"... and saying also, "believe what WE taught you INSTEAD" (v.15)

--[DOTL] something that would be REASONABLE for them to have been persuaded "IS PRESENT [PERFECT indicative]," based on their PRESENT and ONGOING, VERY NEGATIVE experiences they were ENDURing (2Th1:4)

--[DOTL] something that Paul was telling how would "FIT" [time-wise] IN RELATION TO the other thing (or, the SEQUENCE between the one and the other--this is why v.1's Subject is distinct from v.2's Subject--how they "fit" together TIME-WISE/SEQUENCE-WISE)

--[DOTL] something they already "KNOW PERFECTLY" would ARRIVE like "a thief IN THE NIGHT" and like the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]" (matching what Jesus spoke of in the Olivet Discourse, Matt25/Mk13... THAT would indeed FREAK THEM OUT to think had ARRIVED and "IS PRESENT")...

... so they understood "WHAT" that is [involving an earthly time-period OF JUDGMENTs]...

... what they needed was a letter (which would have taken SOME TIME to reach them) telling them not to be convinced by anyone persuading them it "IS PRESENT" (again, their PRESENT and ONGOING "tribulations and persecutions would have made this PERFECTLY REASONABLE for them to believe [the DOTL] "IS PRESENT" [tho it wasn't])... It makes NO SENSE that they would have been convinced by someone telling them "[they] MISSED THE RAPTURE"... No! (this is NOT indicated by the text). They were under no such delusion, nor were they at risk of being under any such delusion (all one has to do is "look around" to see with one's eyes that this is not so... and these were not dense people ... and what kind of LIAR would think such a thing would be to any degree persuasive to them, considering such tangible evidence abounding?? )

I just cannot follow your format. It is not a complaint because you can write how you like, but if I am to reply I must understand what your argument is. I do gather that you divide verse 1 and 2. This I cannot see. It is one sentence.

Then, let us suppose that "Day of the LORD" is correct. It's length of time is of no matter, for the "gathering" of the saints probably takes less than five minutes. Next, a "thief" comes quietly and leaves quietly. But other scriptures give the "day of the LORD" as tumultuous. Next, a thief comes only for what is valuable. The judgment of the ungodly shows their value - none. Next, the usage of the Lord's coming as a "thief" in Matthew 24 is connected with Him TAKING somebody. The Greek word used is "paralambano" which means, "to take someone well-known with on a journey" - like Joseph "took" Mary with to Egypt (Matt.2:13). Besides all these, it is also out of place, for the "day of the Lord" is a day of vengeance - not the joyous "gathering unto Him".

Would you not agree that all the above problems fall away if the "day of Christ" was correct. The sequence would then be;

1. The Church apostatizes itself and have no interest in Christ
2. The Overcomers look for Christ's appearing and presence in the clouds
3. The Beast is revealed as a charismatic and capable leader but lawless
4. The Overcomers are "gathered" suddenly, without notice, for the "Thief" came and went silently - THE DAY OF CHRIST
5. The Beast is crowned and starts the last 7 years by making it possible for Israel to have their Temple and oblations
6. Lawlessness abounds
7. The kings that invested their power in the Beast end all formal religion and direct worship at the Beast
8. The Beast sets an idol of himself in the Holy of Holies of Jerusalem's temple
9. The Great Tribulation starts with this Abomination of Desolation - THE DAY OF THE LORD BEGINS
10. The Beast requires the Mark on all men
11. The Two Witnesses warn the Nations and Israel of this breach with God
12. After the death, resurrection and rapture of the Two Witnesses, an angel proclaims the eternal gospel from mid-heaven
13. Men give glory to God in defiance of the Beast after the resurrection and rapture of the Two Witnesses
14. The Beast gathers his armies to subdue Jerusalem
15. The Lord descends, NOT as a "THIEF", but as "LIGHTENING" and saves Jerusalem
16. The Lord proceeds to Jezreel and meets and defeats the armies of the Beast
17. The DAY OF THE LORD starts at point # 9 and the earth reels under the despotic rule of the Beast and the wrath of God

 

[luigi]

As I understand it,

--"the beast [rise up out-of/] from the SEA" (Rev13:1,5-7 and Dan7:20-25 [the part esp where the "A MOUTH" is mentioned]) means from the Gentiles/nations

--"the beast coming up out-from the EARTH" (Rev13:11-18; who I believe is the FP) means from Israel


... so if this is the case, the former of the two ^ speaks of that which is related to "the TIMES of the Gentiles" (Neb's "dream/statue/image" with Neb as "head of gold"... Note: this does NOT refer to "the Church age")




In view of this ^ , when we see the phrase "THAT WICKED [G459]" (in 2Th2:8, speaking of the ARRIVAL of "the man of sin" [IN HIS TIME]), we can view its usage elsewhere (G459) in 1Cor9:21 [4x], where Paul is referring to "those without law [i.e. the Gentiles]"


[G459 - anomos - "From a (as a negative particle) and nomos; lawless, i.e. (negatively) not subject to (the Jewish) law; (by implication, a Gentile), or [...]" ]



[to be clear, I am not suggesting this means "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" ]

Everything about the beast and his mouth have to connect together with the data the Lord provides in scriptures. I will explain these connections after I respond to some of the posts since I left yesterday.

 

[luigi]

We are seeing two things happening in the world currently: (1) within Christendom Gospel truth and Bible truth are being systematically rejected for Satanic lies, and (2) within the unbelieving world, lies have become the currency of governments, courts, and the media. As we know from Scripture, Satan is a liar and THE FATHER OF LIES. And he has spawned a multitude of liars.

In other words there is massive DECEPTION happening both within and outside the churches today. You just have to take careful note of the nonsense being spouted by Pope Francis -- the supposed spiritual leader of about 1.5 BILLION Catholics -- to see what I am talking about.

And you simply have to take note of the daily barrage of lies being put out by the TV networks, the newspapers, and the Internet liberal media to con people into thinking falsely about what is happening. If people loved the truth they would reject all the lies, but in reality only a small minority is standing against the lies.

Take the example of this bogus COVID vaccine from Pfizer. Has the medical profession come out strongly against this vaccine and informed the public about its dangers? No. But that was their moral, ethical, and legal responsibility. On the contrary, they are encouraging people to endanger themselves. No one knows anything about the short-term or long-term harm which mRNA vaccines may cause to human beings, or to their infants, or to their children.

When you add all this up, the current situation is ripe for the advent of the Antichrist. And that is what 2 Thessalonians 2 is all about.

I also believe that many Catholics who have very little, or no root in the Word will fall away when the man of sin comes around. But it's not just Catholics; it's everyone who has very little, or no root in the Word whose faith will vanish quickly when things start getting rough (Mark 4:16-17). This still is off topic about what the lie is in association with the man of sin that people will choose, while rejecting the truth, so that they may take pleasure in unrighteousness/not believing.

Mark 4:16 And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who, when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness; 17 And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended.

 

[luigi]

Satan's lie of Christian Zionism, a contradiction in terms, and all that it spawns (protocols of Zion, communist revolutions, world wars, etc), the lie deceiving the church and all, to abandon their former faith in the cross as salvation alone. "There is peace and security." Not from God, false "World peace", in the uniting of all religions.

https://www.equip.org/article/a-biblical-response-to-christian-zionism/
Christian Zionism is the dispensational notion that God has two distinct people, one of whom must be raptured before He can continue His plan with the other. Scripture, however, reveals one chosen people who form one covenant community, beautifully symbolized as one cultivated olive tree.

Just like Sara offering her slave Hagar to Abraham to effect themselves God's promises of a multitude of descendants, bringing forth Ishmael and not God's covenant child Isaac, we humanist humans think we can accomplish God's promises of the Jesus Christ the Messiah's millennial reign on earth (as prophesied in Ezekiel 37 - 48 and Revelation 20) ourselves, they say... without waiting patiently for God's Messiah to come in the clouds...

1 Thessalonians 5 (English Standard Version)
The Day of the Lord
1Now concerning the times and the seasons, brothers,a you have no need to have anything written to you. 2For you yourselves are fully aware that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3While people are saying, “There is peace and security,” then sudden destruction will come upon them as labor pains come upon a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. 4But you are not in darkness, brothers, for that day to surprise you like a thief. 5For you are all childrenb of light, children of the day. We are not of the night or of the darkness. 6So then let us not sleep, as others do, but let us keep awake and be sober. 7For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk, are drunk at night. 8But since we belong to the day, let us be sober, having put on the breastplate of faith and love, and for a helmet the hope of salvation. 9For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10who died for us so that whether we are awake or asleep we might live with him. 11Therefore encourage one another and build one another up, just as you are doing.

There is "Peace and Security" as promised by President Trump's Jewish son, Jared Kushner head quartered at 666th on 5th Avenue, New York, New York. It is the drafted agreement of a Christian country's Abrahamic Accord/Covenant of "Peace and Security" for Jews in Israel and Islam in the surrounding Muslim countries, see the "Peace and Security" as promised below at 3m50s (not at three and a half years...):

Yes, the day of the Lord is occurring when the man of sin who is the beasts mouth propagates the lie that people will choose while rejecting the truth about its implications. Soon to be explained, once I'm finished responding to those who responded to me since yesterday.

 

[luigi]

I'll accept your definition over mine. Does it change the meaning though? Who, of the three parties of men on earth, the Nations, the Nation of Israel, and/or the New Man can abandon their religious belief? I judge only the New Man. The world has none to abandon, and Israel abandoned theirs along time ago.

"One billion apostates"? I cannot follow your arithmetic. That makes one in eight people apostate. Do you think that there are that many Christians? That assumes that 13% of the world's population is Christian. The Lord called it "the LITTLE flock".

There are approximately two billion who claim to have a Christ based faith. Of these two billion, the vast majority have very little root in the Word of God, and as such when tough times come around, as will be the day of the Lord with great tribulation, will then fall away from their supposed claim faith in the Lord. As such one billion plus apostates along with the rest of the world who do not believe in loving their neighbor, truth, justice, equity, and all other spiritual virtues which constitute true faith in Christ, shall worship the dragon the beast, and the beasts mouth, aka the man of sin.

 

[luigi]

This is going to take several paragraphs to explain what the sin is in association with the man of sin, that mankind will choose while rejecting the truth about the lie; which some here will undoubtedly deny, until these occurrences come about, and even then, there will be those here who will prefer the lie over the truth. There will be an apostasy, after all.
In clue number 2, in post number 20 yesterday, I described the Lord informing us in Revelation 9:20 that the plagues in chapters 8 & 9 are due to the love mankind has for the things his hands make/produce, from which man will not repent and cease from making.

Revelation 9:20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:

In chapter 8 seven angels stand before God who are given seven trumpets to sound and provide mankind warning illumination in regards to his actions. After the first four angels sound in chapter 8, one third of earth's environmental resources have been destroyed.
Realizing therefore, that it is what man does to create the products/idols he so worships today; the destruction to 1/3 of earth's natural resources is then realized caused through fossil fuel burning industries today.
The first angel sounds (Revelation 8:7), and 1/3 of all trees on earth are burned, along with all green grass. This last year we've seen greater levels of fire throughout the world, including Australia, Siberia, and California; all of which are attributed to global warming from increasing CO2 emissions primarily from industry.
The second angel sounds (Revelation 8:8-9), and a great mountain burning as with fire is cast into the sea, causing 1/3 of the earth's seas to become blood. Today due to agricultural runoff in conjunction with global warming, algae blooms that are often referred to as red tides, that look like blood, are increasing annually throughout the world's seas and oceans.
The third angel sounds (Revelation 8:10-11), and a great star burning as a lamp falls upon 1/3 of earth's rivers and underground aquifers, causing them to become bitter and poisonous. Today, due to hydraulic fracturing (fracking) operations, ever increasing fresh water resources are being made bitter and poisonous.
The fourth angel sounds (Revelation 8:12), and 1/3 of the light from the sun, moon and stars is darkened, and do not shine for 1/3 of the day and night. Today, due to industrial pollution, along with automobile and other atmospheric pollutants, the light from our sun, moon and stars are considerably less luminous than prior to when the industrial revolution began.
Once the levels of environmental destruction are achieved on the earth, an angel flying through the midst of heaven declares in a loud voice: "WOE, WOE, WOE" by reason of the three remaining angels who have yet to sound (Revelation 8:13).
As this angels loud appeal indicates the last three WOE's producing more dire consequences than the first four woes produced by fossil fuels, and affiliated means; a star then falls from heaven to whom is given the key to the bottomless pit (Revelation 9:1).

This is the bottomless pit from which the beast shall ascend, which is another description for the sea in Revelation 13 from which the beast shall ascend, along with the beasts mouth, which is another description for the man of sin in 2 Thessalonians 2; who when he makes his appearance, the whole world who are not written in the lambs book of life, will adore (Relation 13:8), along with the dragon and the beast (Relation 13:4). It is the dragon Satan who is cast unto the earth (Revelation 12:9), who is the star and the angel of the bottomless pit, who will give the beast his power from the bottomless pit (Revelation 13:2), that will cause the whole world to adore the dragon and the beast for this power from the sea.
So, why will the world love the dragon and the beast for this power from the bottomless pit/the sea? If we go back to the end of chapter 8, we see that 1/3 of earth's natural resources have been destroyed through the use of fossil fuels. There will be greater levels of famines, wars, pestilences; all of which described in the Olivet discourse (Mark 13; Luke 21; Matthew 24), as the beginning of sorrows, before the Abomination of desolation makes his appearance, which is another description for the man of sin. Mankind who will then still not be repentant to the damage he is doing to the earth (Revelation 9:20) will more than welcome the power the dragon Satan will give to the beast and the beasts mouth, because mankind will accept the lie the man of sin, who is the beasts mouth will proclaim it being better than the former fossil fuels that will have caused so much destruction.
As we read in Revelation 9, however, we see that the power the dragon will provide the beast that causes its ascension from the bottomless pit/the sea is anything but benign in nature, and in effect is quite destructive. This is further corroborated by the angel, who when Satan is cast to the earth, along with his angels (Revelation 12:9), declares woe to all living inhabitants of both land and sea (Revelation 12:12).

We are now at the point where we recognize the power the dragon will give to the beast that causes its ascension along with the beasts mouth/the man of sin from the bottomless pit/the sea, basically follows mankind's desire to continue worshipping the things his hands produce, which if not produced by fossil fuels, then require another source of energy for industry to produce.
With the understanding that a tremendous amount of energy would be required in order to provide nearly all of mankind with all the material goods/idols they love; one such source of a virtually unlimited amount of energy (a bottomless pit), is from fusion, the same energy source that powers our sun and the stars.
Once the world is in the depths of chaos as depicted in the Olivet discourse (preceding the abomination of desolations appearance when he and the beast ascend from the bottomless pit/the sea); the dragon who has failed to make his systems work on the earth, is afforded one last go at making things work, and is given the key to the bottomless pit, which is the means to unlock access to fusion energy.

Fusion energy is the lie, the man of sin will propagate, that the vast majority of mankind, will be enamored with so that they may continue to take pleasure in not believing the truth about its destructive nature.

 

[BenjaminN]

This is going to take several paragraphs to explain what the sin is in association with the man of sin, that mankind will choose while rejecting the truth about the lie; which some here will undoubtedly deny, until these occurrences come about, and even then, there will be those here who will prefer the lie over the truth. There will be an apostasy, after all.
In clue number 2, in post number 20 yesterday, I described the Lord informing us in Revelation 9:20 that the plagues in chapters 8 & 9 are due to the love mankind has for the things his hands make/produce, from which man will not repent and cease from making.

Revelation 9:20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:

In chapter 8 seven angels stand before God who are given seven trumpets to sound and provide mankind warning illumination in regards to his actions. After the first four angels sound in chapter 8, one third of earth's environmental resources have been destroyed.
Realizing therefore, that it is what man does to create the products/idols he so worships today; the destruction to 1/3 of earth's natural resources is then realized caused through fossil fuel burning industries today.
The first angel sounds (Revelation 8:7), and 1/3 of all trees on earth are burned, along with all green grass. This last year we've seen greater levels of fire throughout the world, including Australia, Siberia, and California; all of which are attributed to global warming from increasing CO2 emissions primarily from industry.
The second angel sounds (Revelation 8:8-9), and a great mountain burning as with fire is cast into the sea, causing 1/3 of the earth's seas to become blood. Today due to agricultural runoff in conjunction with global warming, algae blooms that are often referred to as red tides, that look like blood, are increasing annually throughout the world's seas and oceans.
The third angel sounds (Revelation 8:10-11), and a great star burning as a lamp falls upon 1/3 of earth's rivers and underground aquifers, causing them to become bitter and poisonous. Today, due to hydraulic fracturing (fracking) operations, ever increasing fresh water resources are being made bitter and poisonous.
The fourth angel sounds (Revelation 8:12), and 1/3 of the light from the sun, moon and stars is darkened, and do not shine for 1/3 of the day and night. Today, due to industrial pollution, along with automobile and other atmospheric pollutants, the light from our sun, moon and stars are considerably less luminous than prior to when the industrial revolution began.
Once the levels of environmental destruction are achieved on the earth, an angel flying through the midst of heaven declares in a loud voice: "WOE, WOE, WOE" by reason of the three remaining angels who have yet to sound (Revelation 8:13).
As this angels loud appeal indicates the last three WOE's producing more dire consequences than the first four woes produced by fossil fuels, and affiliated means; a star then falls from heaven to whom is given the key to the bottomless pit (Revelation 9:1).

This is the bottomless pit from which the beast shall ascend, which is another description for the sea in Revelation 13 from which the beast shall ascend, along with the beasts mouth, which is another description for the man of sin in 2 Thessalonians 2; who when he makes his appearance, the whole world who are not written in the lambs book of life, will adore (Relation 13:8), along with the dragon and the beast (Relation 13:4). It is the dragon Satan who is cast unto the earth (Revelation 12:9), who is the star and the angel of the bottomless pit, who will give the beast his power from the bottomless pit (Revelation 13:2), that will cause the whole world to adore the dragon and the beast for this power from the sea.
So, why will the world love the dragon and the beast for this power from the bottomless pit/the sea? If we go back to the end of chapter 8, we see that 1/3 of earth's natural resources have been destroyed through the use of fossil fuels. There will be greater levels of famines, wars, pestilences; all of which described in the Olivet discourse (Mark 13; Luke 21; Matthew 24), as the beginning of sorrows, before the Abomination of desolation makes his appearance, which is another description for the man of sin. Mankind who will then still not be repentant to the damage he is doing to the earth (Revelation 9:20) will more than welcome the power the dragon Satan will give to the beast and the beasts mouth, because mankind will accept the lie the man of sin, who is the beasts mouth will proclaim it being better than the former fossil fuels that will have caused so much destruction.
As we read in Revelation 9, however, we see that the power the dragon will provide the beast that causes its ascension from the bottomless pit/the sea is anything but benign in nature, and in effect is quite destructive. This is further corroborated by the angel, who when Satan is cast to the earth, along with his angels (Revelation 12:9), declares woe to all living inhabitants of both land and sea (Revelation 12:12).

We are now at the point where we recognize the power the dragon will give to the beast that causes its ascension along with the beasts mouth/the man of sin from the bottomless pit/the sea, basically follows mankind's desire to continue worshipping the things his hands produce, which if not produced by fossil fuels, then require another source of energy for industry to produce.
With the understanding that a tremendous amount of energy would be required in order to provide nearly all of mankind with all the material goods/idols they love; one such source of a virtually unlimited amount of energy (a bottomless pit), is from fusion, the same energy source that powers our sun and the stars.
Once the world is in the depths of chaos as depicted in the Olivet discourse (preceding the abomination of desolations appearance when he and the beast ascend from the bottomless pit/the sea); the dragon who has failed to make his systems work on the earth, is afforded one last go at making things work, and is given the key to the bottomless pit, which is the means to unlock access to fusion energy.

Fusion energy is the lie, the man of sin will propagate, that the vast majority of mankind, will be enamored with so that they may continue to take pleasure in not believing the truth about its destructive nature.

Is your argument that nuclear fusion will be the deception used by the anti-christ to make many apostate from their faith, not being like saying that nuclear fission of the atomic bomb of 1944 is the destructive lie that brought the anti-christ to power when the zionist state was established in 1948?

Wouldn't a more likely deception be Christian Zionist "world peace" by bringing all the Abrahamic faiths (Christian, Jews and Muslims) together in a covenant with many, deceiving Christians to abandon their faith of waiting for Christ Yeshua to arrive in the clouds, but presenting an earthly Messiah figure, who restored the temple in Jerusalem with its daily sacrifices to the Jews, but then stopping it after 3.5 years when he demands sole worship to himself as God?

Matthew 24 (English Standard Version)
The Abomination of Desolation
15“So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), 16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17Let the one who is on the housetop not go down to take what is in his house, 18and let the one who is in the field not turn back to take his cloak. 19And alas for women who are pregnant and for those who are nursing infants in those days! 20Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a Sabbath. 21For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be.

Daniel 9 (English Standard Version)
27And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week,g and for half of the week (three and a half years) he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator.”

 

[BenjaminN]

Satan's lie of Christian Zionism, a contradiction in terms, and all that it spawns (protocols of Zion, communist Marxist revolutions, world wars, etc), the lie deceiving the church and all, to abandon their former faith in the cross as salvation alone. "There is peace and security." Not from God, false "World peace", in the uniting of all religions.

https://www.equip.org/article/a-biblical-response-to-christian-zionism/
Christian Zionism is the dispensational notion that God has two distinct people, one of whom must be raptured before He can continue His plan with the other. Scripture, however, reveals one chosen people who form one covenant community, beautifully symbolized as one cultivated olive tree.

Just like Sara offering her slave Hagar to Abraham to effect themselves God's promises of a multitude of descendants, bringing forth Ishmael and not God's covenant child Isaac, we humanist humans think we can accomplish God's promises of the Jesus Christ the Messiah's millennial reign on earth (as prophesied in Ezekiel 37 - 48 and Revelation 20) ourselves, they say... without waiting patiently for God's Messiah to come in the clouds...

1 Thessalonians 5 (English Standard Version)
The Day of the Lord
1Now concerning the times and the seasons, brothers,a you have no need to have anything written to you. 2For you yourselves are fully aware that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3While people are saying, “There is peace and security,” then sudden destruction will come upon them as labor pains come upon a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. 4But you are not in darkness, brothers, for that day to surprise you like a thief. 5For you are all childrenb of light, children of the day. We are not of the night or of the darkness. 6So then let us not sleep, as others do, but let us keep awake and be sober. 7For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk, are drunk at night. 8But since we belong to the day, let us be sober, having put on the breastplate of faith and love, and for a helmet the hope of salvation. 9For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10who died for us so that whether we are awake or asleep we might live with him. 11Therefore encourage one another and build one another up, just as you are doing.

There is "Peace and Security" as promised by President Trump's Jewish son, Jared Kushner head quartered at 666th on 5th Avenue, New York, New York. It is the drafted agreement of a Christian country's Abrahamic Accord/Covenant of "Peace and Security" for Jews in Israel and Islam in the surrounding Muslim countries, see the "Peace and Security" as promised below at 3m50s (not at three and a half years...):

 

[luigi]

Is your argument that nuclear fusion will be the deception used by the anti-christ to make many apostate from their faith, not being like saying that nuclear fission of the atomic bomb of 1944 is the destructive lie that brought the anti-christ to power when the zionist state was established in 1948?

Wouldn't a more likely deception be Christian Zionist "world peace" by bringing all the Abrahamic faiths (Christian, Jews and Muslims) together in a covenant with many, deceiving Christians to abandon their faith of waiting for Christ Yeshua to arrive in the clouds, but presenting an earthly Messiah figure, who restored the temple in Jerusalem with its daily sacrifices to the Jews, but then stopping it after 3.5 years when he demands sole worship to himself as God?

Matthew 24 (English Standard Version)
The Abomination of Desolation
15“So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), 16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17Let the one who is on the housetop not go down to take what is in his house, 18and let the one who is in the field not turn back to take his cloak. 19And alas for women who are pregnant and for those who are nursing infants in those days! 20Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a Sabbath. 21For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be.

Daniel 9 (English Standard Version)
27And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week,g and for half of the week (three and a half years) he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator.”

Fusion energy which will be touted as a clean energy source, not causing the issues fossil fuels will have caused, with the undeniable results seen in Revelation 8, is the virtually unlimited amount of energy that hydrogen isotopes that the worlds oceans have a virtually unlimited (bottomless pit) quantity of to produce fusion, is what mankind will be totally enamored with, as it will provide industry all the energy they will require to make all the material goods/idols mankind loves.
What else do you think is going to bring about days as those of Noah, and days like those of Lot with people enjoying the pleasures described in 2 Thessalonians 2 under the man of sin?

 

[BenjaminN]

Fusion energy which will be touted as a clean energy source, not causing the issues fossil fuels will have caused, with the undeniable results seen in Revelation 8, is the virtually unlimited amount of energy that hydrogen isotopes that the worlds oceans have a virtually unlimited (bottomless pit) quantity of to produce fusion, is what mankind will be totally enamored with, as it will provide industry all the energy they will require to make all the material goods/idols mankind loves.
What else do you think is going to bring about days as those of Noah, and days like those of Lot with people enjoying the pleasures described in 2 Thessalonians 2 under the man of sin?

I must say the religion of science, technology and unprovable evolution has caused quite a dent in the number of Christian believers putting God before "science" and "technology", since the religion of science's institution by King Louis XIV in France in 1666:

The French Academy of Sciences (French: Académie des sciences) is a learned society, founded in 1666 by Louis XIV at the suggestion of Jean-Baptiste Colbert, to encourage and protect the spirit of French scientific research. It was at the forefront of scientific developments in Europe in the 17th and 18th centuries, and is one of the earliest Academies of Sciences.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1666_in_France
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Academy_of_Sciences

before King Louis XIV instituted the Dragonnades in 1681 to coerce French Huguenot Protestant believers to abandon their faith, as part of the Lutheran Reformation. The application of selective and coercive troop quartering had been initiated by the intendant René de Marillac in Poitou, in 1681.

https://www.museeprotestant.org/en/notice/the-dragonnades-1681-1685/

A “Dragonnade” was the forced lodging of dragoons, the king’s soldiers, in Huguenot homes. The latter were looted and mistreated until they renounced their faith.

The first "dragonnade" in Poitou (1681)

The new missionaries, engraving by Engelmann © S.H.P.F.

The king’s dragoons were sent throughout France in order to get heretics to convert to the Catholic faith. The Military were powerful, and the heretics recanted.

In 1681, the first dragonnade was tried in Poitou, the initiative of Intendent René de Marillac (Intendent in Poitou from 1677 to January 1682), who must have been encouraged by Louvois.

Louvois had sent a cavalry regiment to Poitou for winter quarters. Marillac lodged them mostly in Reformed homes and allowed them to plunder and to ruin their hosts. The dragoons forced their hosts to pay and feed them. When they ran out of money, the dragoons sold the furniture or broke it into pieces. If the Protestant host refused to convert, he was mistreated, hit and became a toy for these savages, who invented new torture methods and went as far as making children suffer. Women endured all kinds of torture. Once the unfortunate man had recanted, the dragoons went to the next home.

Within months, the priests registered 38,000 conversions. The Poitou area was ruined and its inhabitants fled to England or Holland. The news roused indignation in the Protestant community of Europe. The soldiers were recalled and Marillac was moved elsewhere.
The "dragonnades" before the Revocation (1685)

The Dragonnades © S.H.P.F.

Even before the Revocation, Protestants were greatly persecuted.

The Truce of Ratisbon, signed in 1684, had rendered some of the troops “available”. In July 1685, Foucault, king’s Intendent in Pau, was allowed to use the soldiers against the Reformed community. He improved the system Marillac had begun in Poitou. As soon as the arrival of dragoons was announced, entire villages converted. Foucault announced thousands of conversions without any violence. He then went to Poitou, where he let the dragoons commit terrible abuse of all sorts.

As he was very successful, Louvois sent the dragoons to other Superintendents in other Provinces. The dragoons went to Bergerac, Montauban and then Castres, the Rhône valley and Dauphiné. In the face of the terror they provoked, the Reformed community in Montpellier and Nîmes recanted to prevent abuse and so did those in Cévennes : they converted before the arrival of the soldiers. Three quarters of the Huguenots recanted thanks to the “military missionaries”, that is the dragoons.
The "dragonnades" after the Revocation

Dragonnade in Orange (1685)

In Lubéron, the Grignan county dragoons won over the Reformed communities around the villages of Lacoste, Mérindol, Lourmarin, Joucas, Cabrières, former Waldese strongholds.

Areas north of the Loire were under the control of the dragoons as well, but only after the Edict of Nantes.

Normandy, Brie and then Champagne were not spared either. In November 1685, the Northern and Eastern areas around Chartres, Rouen, Dieppe, Caen, and Nantes were attacked. Then it was the turn of the Meaux, Champagne, and Sedan dioceses.

In Rouen, at the end of October 1685, in four days of violence twelve companies forced the heads of households to recant. All the towns in the Caux area gave in and Le Havre surrendered before the arrival of the dragoons. Massive emigration to England and the Netherlands, through the “Anglo-Saxon Islands” (Channel Islands), caused a huge decrease in the local population.

The Brie area as far as Soissons came under the control of the dragoons in December 1685. But despite the efforts made by Bossuet, Bishop of Meaux, urging the “new converts” to stay faithful, Protestantism never completely disappeared from the region.

The Treaties of Westphalia had considered the Reformed community in Metz somewhat differently and Louis XIV had granted them an extra ten months to convert following the Edict of Fontainbleau (1685). Metz was the last city in France to be under the control of the dragoons in August 1686. In less than three days, Metz gave in and deportation put an end to resistance in 1687.

However, despite the violence caused by the “dragonnades”, the spirit of the Reformed Church survived and the apparent new converts (N.C.) soon organised resistance.

 

[Corban]

There are approximately two billion who claim to have a Christ based faith. Of these two billion, the vast majority have very little root in the Word of God, and as such when tough times come around, as will be the day of the Lord with great tribulation, will then fall away from their supposed claim faith in the Lord. As such one billion plus apostates along with the rest of the world who do not believe in loving their neighbor, truth, justice, equity, and all other spiritual virtues which constitute true faith in Christ, shall worship the dragon the beast, and the beasts mouth, aka the man of sin.

That's just it. Can you fall away from something you never had? Is 2nd Thessalonians 2 talking about billions who had nothing and walked away from it, or is it talking about the seven Churches of Revelation. Is it talking about what Paul says in 2nd Timothy 3:5-8 concerning men who have resisted the truth from the beginning and have no substance,

"Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
.... so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith."

Or in 2nd Timothy 4:3 of men who once endured sound doctrine but "turned" and fell away:

3 "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables".

In the Parable of the Wheat and Tares there are two different KINDS each with their seed and origin. The Tares are never called Wheat. They remain Tares from beginning to end. Can a Tare "fall away"? If so, from what? Wheat also remains Wheat, though it might not produce fruit.

Apostasy can only happen with men who something to forsake - the real thing.

 

[luigi]

That's just it. Can you fall away from something you never had? Is 2nd Thessalonians 2 talking about billions who had nothing and walked away from it, or is it talking about the seven Churches of Revelation. Is it talking about what Paul says in 2nd Timothy 3:5-8 concerning men who have resisted the truth from the beginning and have no substance,

"Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
.... so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith."

Or in 2nd Timothy 4:3 of men who once endured sound doctrine but "turned" and fell away:

3 "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables".

In the Parable of the Wheat and Tares there are two different KINDS each with their seed and origin. The Tares are never called Wheat. They remain Tares from beginning to end. Can a Tare "fall away"? If so, from what? Wheat also remains Wheat, though it might not produce fruit.

Apostasy can only happen with men who something to forsake - the real thing.

As I stated previously, the Apostasy are those who previously believed in what Christ believed, which is love your neighbor, believe in truth and justice, and in all spiritual virtues Christ advocated for. These apostates, will then convert to the hedonistic utopia the beasts system will usher in through the power of fusion, which the dragon will provide the beast, thereby causing its ascension from the sea of hydrogen isotopes, deuterium and tritium, of which the worlds oceans have a virtual unlimited quantity (a bottomless pit) of.

 

[luigi]

Fusion energy is the lie, the man of sin will propagate, that the vast majority of mankind, will be enamored with so that they may continue to take pleasure in not believing the truth about its destructive nature.

More accurately, fusion energy being benign in nature is the lie the man of sin, who is the beasts mouth will propagate. The majority of mankind will choose to accept this lie over the truth of its being considerably more environmentally destructive than the fossil fuels destruction to 1/3 of earth's environment in Revelation 8, just so that they may continue take pleasure in loving the works of their hands (2 Thessalonians 2:10-12 & Revelation 9:20).

2 Thessalonians 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Revelation 9:20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:

 

[Corban]

As I stated previously, the Apostasy are those who previously believed in what Christ believed, which is love your neighbor, believe in truth and justice, and in all spiritual virtues Christ advocated for. These apostates, will then convert to the hedonistic utopia the beasts system will usher in through the power of fusion, which the dragon will provide the beast, thereby causing its ascension from the sea of hydrogen isotopes, deuterium and tritium, of which the worlds oceans have a virtual unlimited quantity (a bottomless pit) of.

O.K. Thanks for the reply. But now we are even further apart. To believe IN (or INTO) our Lord Jesus is not to believe what He believed. It is to admit Who He is and What He did. Our Lord Jesus had two main tasks, (i) settle judicially the issue of sin and sins to the satisfaction of His Father, Jehovah, and (ii) cause that men may become the House, Temple and dwelling place of God. This in turn, if exercised, would lead to a Christ-kind of living, which would include what you said above. The Beast only proposes prosperity/utopia, but as Satan's minion, brings in bondage, thievery and death. Apostasy is to walk away from the road that Christ has set before us, starting with Romans 8:29.

"For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren."

The tense of "to be conformed" indicates a long ongoing process, or rather, a road to be traveled with a set goal.

 

[KT88]

With a great falling away set to occur when the man of sin comes around (2 Thessalonians 2), I was hoping to get some opinions on what the truth is that a billion plus individuals will refuse to love is, and what the lie is that they will instead choose over the truth?

You are placing the falling away in the wrong time frame. Paul was speaking of the "falling away" in his lifetime. The man of sin was alive being restrained when Paul wrote.

A more modern version makes it easier to understand:

Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction.

And you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he will be revealed.

The man would have perished long ago.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

You are placing the falling away in the wrong time frame. Paul was speaking of the "falling away" in his lifetime. The man of sin was alive being restrained when Paul wrote.
A more modern version makes it easier to understand:
Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction.
And you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he will be revealed.
The man would have perished long ago.

I'm not sure what it is you are trying to say. Are you saying "falling away" IS or IS NOT in this text? (I do not believe it is, but I cannot tell which YOU are saying is the case--my apologies... could you clarify, here?)



[the Greek had a different word for "to fall" - "pipto"... which is not the word in this context (2Th2:3)]

 

[BenjaminN]

More accurately, fusion energy being benign in nature is the lie the man of sin, who is the beasts mouth will propagate. The majority of mankind will choose to accept this lie over the truth of its being considerably more environmentally destructive than the fossil fuels destruction to 1/3 of earth's environment in Revelation 8, just so that they may continue take pleasure in loving the works of their hands (2 Thessalonians 2:10-12 & Revelation 9:20).

2 Thessalonians 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Revelation 9:20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:

 

[luigi]

You are placing the falling away in the wrong time frame. Paul was speaking of the "falling away" in his lifetime. The man of sin was alive being restrained when Paul wrote.

A more modern version makes it easier to understand:

Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction.

And you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he will be revealed.

The man would have perished long ago.

The man of sin was restrained from being in Paul's lifetime due to the lack of technology. Technology today are what the bible calls sorceries.

Revelation 9:21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

 

[pottersclay]

With a great falling away set to occur when the man of sin comes around (2 Thessalonians 2), I was hoping to get some opinions on what the truth is that a billion plus individuals will refuse to love is, and what the lie is that they will instead choose over the truth?

2 Thessalonians 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Christ crucified is the missing message along with many other blasphemies.
You might want to give a listen to The emergent church.
Evangelical pastors have decreased by 48% since 2010 giving way to a false gospel.

 

[Nehemiah6]

You are placing the falling away in the wrong time frame. Paul was speaking of the "falling away" in his lifetime.

No. He was prophesying of a future apostasy, since Paul would have know that the existing temple would be destroyed in accordance with the prophecy of Christ in the Olivet Discourse.