Sunday worship or Saturday Sabbath what day did God choose or is it Everday worship.

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Status
Not open for further replies.
Dec 16, 2020
166
38
28
42
Texas
I guess you are not a true believer then :geek::unsure::geek:
I just defend my beliefs big difference are you the Father do you know if his spirit is in me read my posts the weight of the heart speaketh through the mouth god says to avoid people that force you to defend yourself I can be your friend or not your choice I just have a passion for the truth of gods word Im not going to blow you off if you go to church on Sat, Sun, or Fellowship at home we should try to learn together what word truly says.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,863
26,028
113
I just defend my beliefs big difference are you the Father do you know if his spirit is in me read my posts the weight of the heart speaketh through the mouth god says to avoid people that force you to defend yourself I can be your friend or not your choice I just have a passion for the truth of gods word Im not going to blow you off if you go to church on Sat, Sun, or Fellowship at home we should try to learn together what word truly says.
That is not "just" what you do when you slander and bear false witness misrepresenting what people have said and done.

My friends do not lie about me as you have chosen to do. You made that choice.

I am not forcing you to do anything.
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
2,739
706
113
Acts 17:16-17, 19, 32-33
Now while Paul waited for them at Athens, his spirit was stirred in him, when he saw the city wholly given to idolatry. 17 Therefore disputed he in the synagogue with the Jews, and with the devout persons, and in the market daily with them that met with him.

19 And they took him, and brought him unto Areopagus, saying, May we know what this new doctrine, whereof thou speakest, is?

32 And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked: and others said, We will hear thee again of this matter. 33 So Paul departed from among them


Note here in Athens that while he did go to synagogue, most of Paul's preaching was done in the market DAILY...he even preached at Mars' hill.

And as a result no mass conversion of gentiles happened here as what happened with gentiles in other cities who went to synagogue on sabbath. Most of Athens treated him like a crazy person with strange babbel.

So far, Pauls gospel was more effective with those gentiles who went to synagogue every sabbath than with gentiles he passed on the streets.
 
Dec 16, 2020
166
38
28
42
Texas
That is not "just" what you do when you slander and bear false witness misrepresenting what people have said and done.

My friends do not lie about me as you have chosen to do. You made that choice.

I am not forcing you to do anything.
I was called blasphemy when I first got here because I defended 10 commandments Gods spiritual divine law and I know you didn't say that but you often question my beliefs and that's fine you don't know if Im sincere I don't want discord I promise you. Like god says we should forgive each other even if need be several times in the day.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,863
26,028
113
I was called blasphemy when I first got here because I defended 10 commandments Gods spiritual divine law and I know you didn't say that but you often question my beliefs and that's fine you don't know if Im sincere I don't want discord I promise you. Like god says we should forgive each other even if need be several times in the day.
Oh, I see. So you break the commandments with impunity while insisting others keep them. There is a word for that.
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
2,739
706
113
Acts 18:1-11
After these things Paul departed from Athens, and came to Corinth; And found a certain Jew named Aquila, born in Pontus, lately come from Italy, with his wife Priscilla; (because that Claudius had commanded all Jews to depart from Rome and came unto them. 3 And because he was of the same craft, he abode with them, and wrought: for by their occupation they were tentmakers.

4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.

5 And when Silas and Timotheus were come from Macedonia, Paul was pressed in the spirit, and testified to the Jews that Jesus was Christ. 6 And when they opposed themselves, and blasphemed, he shook his raiment, and said unto them, Your blood be upon your own heads; I am clean: from henceforth I will go unto the Gentiles.

7 And he departed thence, and entered into a certain man's house, named Justus, one that worshipped God, whose house joined hard to the synagogue. 8 And Crispus, the chief ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his house; and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized.

11 And he continued there a year and six months, teaching the word of God among them



Paul reaches Corinth and preaches in the synagogue, every sabbath day, to Jews and Gentiles. When Jews opposed his teachings he says he will go to Gentiles, and then goes to a (supposed) Gentile whose house was STRONGLY JOINED to the synagogue. He convinced the leader of the synagogue (a supposed Jew) and MANY in Corinth of the gospel, staying there a year and a half. Again, compare the number of conversions here to Gentiles in Athens who didn't go to synagogue on the sabbath but lived a life of idolatry.


1 Corinthians 1:2
2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:


The community at Corinth strongly tied to the synagogue who also believed the gospel was called "church".
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
2,739
706
113
Acts 18:19-21 [brackets mine]
And he came to Ephesus
, and left [Priscilla and Aquila] there: but he himself entered into the synagogue, and reasoned with the Jews.

20 When they desired him to tarry longer time with them, he consented not; But bade them farewell, saying, I must by all means keep this feast that cometh in Jerusalem: but I will return again unto you, if God will. And he sailed from Ephesus.



Paul entered Ephesus and went to the synagogue to preach and these Jews accepted his gospel. Again, the custom is 'on the sabbath, listen to the law, and then receive a word from a speaker'. There's no record of Gentiles in attendance but they likely are since we know that Paul is an apostle to the Gentiles. And this is the same Ephesus to which Paul sent his letter...


Ephesians 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:


So the group of believers at Ephesus - who are recorded as Jews (and assume by me to include Gentiles) - is called saints and faithful. So far, the takeaways I'm trying to point out are that:

1. It isn't as simple as to say the church is a separate work from the Jews, because a multitude of Jews was referred to as "church" or "saints" in Paul's letters.

2. Many, many Gentiles followed the custom of the Jews and regularly attended the synagogue on the sabbath, hearing the law read and then a word from a speaker.

3. It was these Gentiles that Paul preached to in the synagogue - who had already been primed with the law every sabbath (because the law leads to Christ) - who more easily accepted the gospel of Christ; and that without that primer the gospel wasn't as effective in converting the hearts of Gentiles, as we see through Paul's experience in Athens as a street preacher.
 

BenjaminN

Well-known member
Oct 7, 2020
1,504
307
83
It's misguided teachers of the law who don't understand God's Word. Only those who are born of God live in Christ.
They tell us do not keep God's Sabbath, God's Sabbath that is pleasing, holy and set apart to Him, as He rested from His own work of creation on the seventh day. Next thing they humanist lovers of self, and not loving God enough to keep His Sabbath, will tell us inhumanely (in an un-humanistic way) it's ok to murder our fellow men, oh - but they already did - for now it's only babies in the womb unable to fend for themselves... their lives of promise terminated before it began allowed by so called majority Christian nations... In so all love (for God in Sabbath breaking, and fellow man in murder) will grow cold...

Are you lawless, or do you just advocate lawlessness?

With God's renewed covenant, he wrote his law on our hearts (our will) and promised forgiveness of sin where there is repentance, and God's law will no longer be written on stone (force). God's elect Christians are saved by grace, through faith which is the gift of God, for good works (in obedience to God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit's will, His law, His commandments) prepared beforehand by God.

Ephesians 2 (New King James Version)
8For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

2 Thessalonians 2 (English Standard Version)
The Man of Lawlessness
1Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers,a 2not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 3Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessnessb is revealed, the son of destruction,c 4who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.

Matthew 24 (New King James Version)
12And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold.

Revelation 3 (New King James Version)
10Because you have kept [g]My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.

Revelation 12 (New King James Version)
17And the dragon was enraged with the woman (God's elect Christians, His Church), and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus [c]Christ.

Revelation 14 (New King James Version)
12Here is the [g]patience of the saints; here[h] are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

Revelation 22 (New King James Version)
14Blessed are those who [g]do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,647
13,124
113
Acts 19:8-9
And he went into the synagogue and spoke boldly for three months, reasoning and persuading concerning the things of the kingdom of God. But when some were hardened and did not believe, but spoke evil of the Way before the multitude, he departed from them and withdrew the disciples, reasoning daily in the school of Tyrannus.

It would seem that Paul went first to his own people, wishing that he could trade his own life if it meant some of them could be saved. When you want to find Jews to talk about theology with, you can find them in synagogue on sabbath. But not 'only' on sabbath - the apostles preached every day of the week both in the temple and everywhere:

Acts 5:42 And daily in the temple, and in every house, they did not cease teaching and preaching Jesus [as] the Christ.

And when they rejected the gospel he continued preaching, daily, to every gentile that would hear him.




This can't be legitimately made into a case that they were commanding believers to keep the sabbaths given to the Jews through Moses.
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
2,739
706
113
Acts 18:24-28
24 And a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man, and mighty in the scriptures, came to Ephesus.

25 This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John. 26 And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue:...

whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly. 27And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace: For he mightily convinced the Jews, and that publickly, shewing by the scriptures that Jesus was Christ.



Acts 19:1-7
And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, 2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. 3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. 4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. 5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. 7And all the men were about twelve.



So Apollos was a Jew who knew the scriptures, and so visited the synagogue at Ephesus, and helped Paul's friends convince many Jews there of the gospel. This man hadn't even received the Holy Spirit, having only received John's baptism. Apollos leaves for Corinth and Paul comes to Ephesus later on and baptizes the Ephesus Jews who believe the gospel, into the Holy Spirit.
 

BenjaminN

Well-known member
Oct 7, 2020
1,504
307
83
Paul feared for such people:geek:

Now that you know God, or rather are known by God, how is it that you are turning back to those weak and worthless principles? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again? You are observing special days and months and seasons and years! I fear for you, that my efforts for you may have been in vain. Galatians 4:9-11
Is "thou shalt not murder" (maybe babies in the womb as an exception to some people...) also a "weak and worthless principle" to you, just one of those old law commandments of God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit?

God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit's will (His law, His commandments) is love.

Love for God (including keeping his Sabbath)
Love for fellow man (including not murdering your fellow man)
 

BenjaminN

Well-known member
Oct 7, 2020
1,504
307
83
Gentiles were always allowed in

it was nothing new

what was new was that the gospel was being preached that faith was the way not the law
God's elect Christians are saved by grace, through faith the gift of God, for good works of love in obedience to God's law. Keeping God's Sabbath is love for God.

Ephesians 2 (New King James Version)
8For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,863
26,028
113
Is "thou shalt not murder" (maybe babies in the womb as an exception to some people...) also a "weak and worthless principle" to you, just one of those old law commandments of God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit?

God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit's will (His law, His commandments) is love.

Love for God (including keeping his Sabbath)
Love for fellow man (including not murdering your fellow man)
What does murder have to do with observing special days and months and seasons and years?

Those are the "principles" that were clearly identified in the Scripture I gave.
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
2,739
706
113
Acts 19:8-10
And he went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God.

9 But when divers were hardened, and believed not, but spake evil of that way before the multitude, he departed from them, and separated the disciples, disputing daily in the school of one Tyrannus.

10 And this continued by the space of two years; so that all they which dwelt in Asia heard the word of the Lord Jesus, both Jews and Greeks.



Once again, Paul goes to the synagogue and preaches. When some Jews are hardened he separates his disciples from them and continued in one of the schools (this was a Jew-ish school that taught the law). He stayed there for 2 years and both Jew and Gentile heard the gospel.
 

BenjaminN

Well-known member
Oct 7, 2020
1,504
307
83
This is how Paul evangelized. He did this everywhere he went. And then as converts were made they established a church that met on the first day of the week.
Often Paul was banned from the synagogue once the Jewish leaders stirred up the people against him but by that time he had made converts who became the first members of the local church which would then meet on the first day of the week.

When the first church council was held in Jerusalem to discuss the controversy over some who were trying to put circumcision on the gentile converts, they made this statement in their findings... "19Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: 20But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. 21For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day. " And by making this statement it is clear that if they wanted to adhere to circumcision and things like sabbath keeping, they could go to synagogues and hear it preached,.. But the church of God was not about that and would not be required to do such things and these were meeting on the first of the week not on the sabbath. He was saying, they could go there if they wanted to hear that preached.

Another interesting thing about Paul's method of evangelism (even though he said he was called to the gentiles) was that he went to the religious Jews to preach his message. He went to where there was an audience that at first were interested in what he was talking about. I used to think he was a street preacher but that the pattern he followed was going to the people who were interested in the conversation. Even the meeting by the river was a group of women who met their to pray because there was no synagogue. And yet they gave audience because they were interested in the things Paul was talking about.

Even the meeting at Mars Hill to preach to the Greek philosophers he was invited to.

I am not saying that street preaching to a hostile or uninterested crowd is not great thing to do, I am just saying that it is not correct to paint that image of what Paul did when preaching about Acts.
Acts 20:7 (KJV) And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

Acts 20:7 (Textus receptus) Ἐν δὲ τῇ μιᾷ τῶν σαββάτων συνηγμένων τῶν μαθητῶν τοῦ κλάσαι ἄρτον ὁ Παῦλος διελέγετο αὐτοῖς μέλλων ἐξιέναι τῇ ἐπαύριον παρέτεινέν τε τὸν λόγον μέχρι μεσονυκτίου

Even the King James Version did not correct the bible's corruption, probably by the Roman Catholic Church:

Acts 20:7 (Interlinear) And g1161 δὲ ; upon g1722 Ἐν ; the first g1520 μιᾷ ; (Greek: Sabbaton - English: Sabbath) g4521 σαββάτων

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G4521&t=KJV

G4521:
Greek: Sabatton, English: Sabbath
  • the seventh day of each week which was a sacred festival on which the Israelites were required to abstain from all work
    1. the institution of the sabbath, the law for keeping holy every seventh day of the week
    2. a single sabbath, sabbath day
Acts 20:7 "And upon the first Sabbath, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.
 

BenjaminN

Well-known member
Oct 7, 2020
1,504
307
83
What does murder have to do with observing special days and months and seasons and years?

Those are the "principles" that were clearly identified in the Scripture I gave.
It seems like you share the moral compass not to murder because you love your fellow man. Now, do you have the moral compass to keep God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit's Sabbath day, because you love God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit? Like God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit rested from their works on the seventh day following their six days of creation, and like we will rest in the seventh 1000 years millennial cycle, in the millennial kingdom with Christ Yeshua (Revelation 20:4, Ezekiel 37 - 48).

Not to murder and to keep the Sabbath, both the will of God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, are the same God "principles" of love, the former the expression of love for fellow man and the latter the expression of love for God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Of the decalogue the first four commandments summarises all love for God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, and the last six commandments summarises all love for fellow man:

Deuteronomy 5 (New King James Version)

6‘I am the Lord your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of [a]bondage.

7‘You shall have no other gods before Me.

8‘You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; 9you shall not bow[c] down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, [d]visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, 10but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and [e]keep My commandments.

11‘You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him [f]guiltless who takes His name in vain.

12Observe the Sabbath day, to [g]keep it holy, as the Lord your God commanded you. 13Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 14but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your ox, nor your donkey, nor any of your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates, that your male servant and your female servant may rest as well as you. 15And remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the Lord your God brought you out from there by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm; therefore the Lord your God commanded you to keep the Sabbath day.

16‘Honor your father and your mother, as the Lord your God has commanded you, that your days may be long, and that it may be well with you in the land which the Lord your God is giving you.
17You shall not murder.
18‘You shall not commit adultery.
19‘You shall not steal.
20‘You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
21‘You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife; and you shall not desire your neighbor’s house, his field, his male servant, his female servant, his ox, his donkey, or anything that is your neighbor’s.’
22“These words the Lord spoke to all your assembly, in the mountain from the midst of the fire, the cloud, and the thick darkness, with a loud voice; and He added no more. And He wrote them on two tablets of stone and gave them to me.

God's renewed covenant in the blood of Christ Yeshua, was given so that God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit's commandments, His will, His law, will be written on our hearts (our will) with forgiveness of sin where we repent of our disobedience to God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit's commandments - as God's commandments are not written on stone (force) for us anymore, as we have been set free from disobedience as God's will, His commandments, His law - became our wilful obedience through the blood of Christ Yeshua.
 

BenjaminN

Well-known member
Oct 7, 2020
1,504
307
83
Acts 15:3-4
3 And being brought on their way by the church, they passed through Phenice and Samaria, declaring the conversion of the Gentiles: and they caused great joy unto all the brethren. 4 And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them


Here, the church is distinguished from the gentiles...unlike today where the church is distinguished from the Jews. The original NT church was Jew-ish (i.e. of the Jews).


Acts 15:18-21
18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world. 19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: 20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. 21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day


The elders' decision was to only require gentiles to abstain from sexual immorality, unclean meats, and sacrifice to idols as personal burdens because the law was preached to the gentiles every sabbath day.
"Here, the church is distinguished from the gentiles...unlike today where the church is distinguished from the Jews. The original NT church was Jew-ish (i.e. of the Jews)."

Read about the fallacy of Christian zionism - separating Jews and Gentiles - contrary to scripture.

https://www.equip.org/article/a-biblical-response-to-christian-zionism/

All God's elect Christians (believing Jews and believing Gentiles) share God's same renewed covenant (all of God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit's promises and commandments), that terminated the old covenant (Hebrews 8), all being grafted into the cultivated olive tree of which Christ Yeshua is the Root (Romans 11).

Hebrews 8 (New King James Version)
7For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 8Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord. 10For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 11None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. 12For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”
13In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
 

BenjaminN

Well-known member
Oct 7, 2020
1,504
307
83
Acts 15:3-4
3 And being brought on their way by the church, they passed through Phenice and Samaria, declaring the conversion of the Gentiles: and they caused great joy unto all the brethren. 4 And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them
.
Here, the church is distinguished from the gentiles...unlike today where the church is distinguished from the Jews. The original NT church was Jew-ish (i.e. of the Jews).
"Here, the church is distinguished from the gentiles...unlike today where the church is distinguished from the Jews. The original NT church was Jew-ish (i.e. of the Jews)."

Romans 11 (New King James Version)
Israel’s Rejection Not Total
1I say then, has God cast away His people? Certainly not! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel, saying, 3“Lord, they have killed Your prophets and torn down Your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life”? 4But what does the divine response say to him? “I have reserved for Myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.” 5Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. [a]But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.


7What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded. 8Just as it is written:

“God has given them a spirit of stupor,
Eyes that they should not see
And ears that they should not hear,
To this very day.”

9And David says:

“Let their table become a snare and a trap,
A stumbling block and a recompense to them.
10Let their eyes be darkened, so that they do not see,
And bow down their back always.”
Israel’s Rejection Not Final
11I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles. 12Now if their [c]fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more their fullness!


13For I speak to you Gentiles; inasmuch as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, 14if by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh and save some of them. 15For if their being cast away is the reconciling of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?


16For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches. 17And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and [d]fatness of the olive tree, 18do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.


19You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” 20Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, [e]goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. 23And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?


25For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own [f]opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26And so all Israel will be [g]saved, as it is written:

“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”

28Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. 29For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience, 31even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy. 32For God has [h]committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.


33Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out!


34“For who has known the mind of the Lord?
Or who has become His counselor?”
35“Or who has first given to Him
And it shall be repaid to him?”

36For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be glory forever. Amen.
 

BenjaminN

Well-known member
Oct 7, 2020
1,504
307
83
Your justified by faith and saved by the confession of your mouth and true believers don't attack peoples views just because they don't line up with theirs. Like poor bud I seen yall picking on just cause he didn't believe what you do that's why I put you hypocrites in your place.
I guess you are not a true believer then :geek::unsure::geek:
Christ Yeshua: "Peace be with you.", "Do not judge."
 

BenjaminN

Well-known member
Oct 7, 2020
1,504
307
83
I was called blasphemy when I first got here because I defended 10 commandments Gods spiritual divine law and I know you didn't say that but you often question my beliefs and that's fine you don't know if Im sincere I don't want discord I promise you. Like god says we should forgive each other even if need be several times in the day.
Oh, I see. So you break the commandments with impunity while insisting others keep them. There is a word for that.
... -> Rescuer -> Persecutor -> Victim -> Rescuer -> Persecutor -> Victim -> Rescuer ...

Brother and Sister, we God's elect Christians have a common enemy, the adversary, who resists God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit's will of love for our lives, His commandments of love, His law of love.

When we rebuke, it is in love for one another, not in love for the position of self...

Ephesians 6 (New King James Version)
10Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might. 11Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of [c]the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. 13Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
14Stand therefore, having girded your waist with truth, having put on the breastplate of righteousness, 15and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace; 16above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one. 17And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God; 18praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, being watchful to this end with all perseverance and supplication for all the saints— 19and for me, that utterance may be given to me, that I may open my mouth boldly to make known the mystery of the gospel, 20for which I am an ambassador in chains; that in it I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.