How Christmas, and Other, Songs Affect Doctrine

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Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#21
Jun 30, 2015
25,614
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#21
GaryA said:
I like your post. In general, I agree with it. We should prefer to endeavor to good communication, understanding, and education over assumption, insinuation, and accusation. However, using a bold font does not automatically make anything "yelling" - bold fonts are most-often used for 'emphasis'. So are italics fonts. What is used depends on what kind of emphasis is needed or desired. Even ALL-CAPS, at times, can be used for special emphasis without having any kind of 'yelling' intent attached to it.

Assuming that a bold font automatically means "yelling" is a bad assumption to make. The same is true for ALL-CAPS.

I use italics, bold, underline, color, etc. in various ways in my posts. It is EXTREMELY rare that I am 'angry' or "yelling" in the slightest.

I am not "yelling" in this post. I am illustrating a point. I do that a lot. I use whatever is available to me to try to "put ideas across" in [hopefully] the best-understandable way. This sometimes includes emojis as well.

There are only so many "things" available to use. And, they are used in different combinations. So - to assume that any particular "thing" used automatically has some particular meaning attached is a bit like assuming that a particular word in the Bible ALWAYS has some particular meaning attached without considering the context.

In the Bible, the overall context must be considered if you want to arrive at the proper interpretation.

In any post, the overall context must be considered if you want to arrive at the proper interpretation.
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In general I agree. I could say more with regard to N6's post in particular, but I'll leave it there.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#24
Jul 3, 2015
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#24
presidente said:
Some churches sing Christmas carols in church.
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I love Christmas carols. It was a family tradition for us to gather and sing them together, and even though I rebelled big time against my fairly strict religious upbringing, in all my years of wandering, running, and seeking, I never lost my love of/for these beautiful songs :)
 
P

presidente

Senior Member
#25
May 29, 2013
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#25
notuptome said:
2 Cor 5:8 not explicit enough? Or are you attempting to teach soul sleep?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
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No since it does not mention heaven and soul sleep adherents can explain it as waking up at the resurrection. I had II Cor. In mind while making my post.

I am not promoting soul sleep and lean toward consciousness in the Lord's presence at death, but the emphasis on dying and going to heaven in some circles is way too much vis a vis the resurrection considering the weight scripture puts on it.
 
S

SophieT

Guest
#26
#26
I listen to alot of instrumental music. Even instrumental Christmas music.

We don't have enough with Sabbath Keepers and SDA's and Hebrew Roots. No. Christmas trees are verboten and now we shall dissect every song that meant anything to a child growing up and an attempt to create guilt in those who 'remember when with fondness' shall begin.

Interesting what keeps some people up at night. :unsure:

The lock up has really gone on too long. :whistle:

Christmas is what a person makes out of it. Apparently so is Christianity. I learned that on Christian forums,

Bah humbug and Merry Christmas.


 
B

Blackpowderduelist

Guest
#27
#27
presidente said:
I'm not saying angels don't sing. I meant to include a line that angels singing isn't some great heresy, but there is no record of them singing in the Christmas story in the Bible. My point is how many other doctrines basically get instilled through song rather than scripture, and my purpose was to point out if part of what people think of as 'canon' about the Christmas story comes from songs rather than scripture, couldn't this be the case with other teachings?
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Yes I get what you are attempting to say. The idea that the angels sang that night comes from the part of the passage; Suddenly, there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying, “Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward humankind.”
That is where the song you referenced gets the idea.

I do agree with you that many modern contemporary songs and even many traditional hymn songs are filled with bad doctrine, and we can learn bad doctrine from bad songs. Which is reason 962 for why I am no longer evangelical protestant. Enjoy this bit of satire, and I hope you have a merry Christmas.
 
Kavik

Kavik

Senior Member
#28
Mar 25, 2017
795
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#28
They're carols, people; not scholarly Biblical dissertations - Seriously, chill out!
 
B

Blackpowderduelist

Guest
#29
#29
Kavik said:
They're carols, people; not scholarly Biblical dissertations - Seriously, chill out!
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No. Some of us have a mission to end the nincompoopery that consumes so much of the churches time that many people leave church biblically illiterate.
 
S

SophieT

Guest
#30
#30
Blackpowderduelist said:
No. Some of us have a mission to end the nincompoopery that consumes so much of the churches time that many people leave church biblically illiterate.
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Time and place. No one needs a ramrod up their spine. AND I am a stickler for proper doctrine. Even Jesus took some time off now and then.
 
B

Blackpowderduelist

Guest
#31
#31
SophieT said:
Time and place. No one needs a ramrod up their spine. AND I am a stickler for proper doctrine. Even Jesus took some time off now and then.
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He also took a whip into the temple and drove out the defilers.
 
S

SophieT

Guest
#32
#32
Blackpowderduelist said:
He also took a whip into the temple and drove out the defilers.
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What an absurd comparison. He also went on some big picnics and boat rides.

You are free to enjoy your dour understanding of angels and whether or not they rejoice and burst into song.
 
P

presidente

Senior Member
#33
May 29, 2013
9,165
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#33
Blackpowderduelist said:
Yes I get what you are attempting to say. The idea that the angels sang that night comes from the part of the passage; Suddenly, there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying, “Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward humankind.”
That is where the song you referenced gets the idea.

I do agree with you that many modern contemporary songs and even many traditional hymn songs are filled with bad doctrine, and we can learn bad doctrine from bad songs. Which is reason 962 for why I am no longer evangelical protestant. Enjoy this bit of satire, and I hope you have a merry Christmas.
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The satire isn't really on point. Silent Night is German, pre-Luther. The lyrics for 'What Child is this?' was written in the 1800s? O Holy Night is French as I recall.

I was just reading that Charles Wesley's 'Hark the Herald Angel's Singapore was rewritten as a version of 'Hark the Herald Angels Sing' and performed in the 1960s. That is a theologically rich Anglican hymn. And apparently Wesley did not include the factual error about angels.

There are a number of fluffy Christmas songs that are not hymns.
 
Mii

Mii

Well-known member
#34
Mar 23, 2019
2,082
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#34
Interesting thread idea man. Even purposeful "Christ"mas music has some glaring errors. Much like a lot of worship songs these days...but I could at least make a CD of probably 12 or so I would listen to.

Idk about you but I like instrumentals for that reason because I can change the lyrics and sing my own song :)


I have a lot of thoughts on the issue but probably it'd be best to wait until things aren't quite as "raw". Typically casts things in a more negative light.
 
P

presidente

Senior Member
#35
May 29, 2013
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#35
presidente said:
The satire isn't really on point. Silent Night is German, pre-Luther. The lyrics for 'What Child is this?' was written in the 1800s? O Holy Night is French as I recall.

I was just reading that Charles Wesley's 'Hark the Herald Angel's Singapore was rewritten as a version of 'Hark the Herald Angels Sing' and performed in the 1960s. That is a theologically rich Anglican hymn. And apparently Wesley did not include the factual error about angels.

There are a number of fluffy Christmas songs that are not hymns.
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Not sure how Singapore got in there. Fat thumbs on a cellphone or overzealous autocorrect.
 
B

Blackpowderduelist

Guest
#36
#36
SophieT said:
What an absurd comparison. He also went on some big picnics and boat rides.

You are free to enjoy your dour understanding of angels and whether or not they rejoice and burst into song.
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I don't bother with what angels do or don't do. I bother myself with what doctrine is taught in the church, whether by song or by preaching.
 
B

Blackpowderduelist

Guest
#37
#37
presidente said:
The satire isn't really on point. Silent Night is German, pre-Luther. The lyrics for 'What Child is this?' was written in the 1800s? O Holy Night is French as I recall.

I was just reading that Charles Wesley's 'Hark the Herald Angel's Singapore was rewritten as a version of 'Hark the Herald Angels Sing' and performed in the 1960s. That is a theologically rich Anglican hymn. And apparently Wesley did not include the factual error about angels.

There are a number of fluffy Christmas songs that are not hymns.
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It's satire, not accurate historical narrative.its just supposed to be funny.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#38
Jul 3, 2015
61,160
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#38
Blackpowderduelist said:
Yes I get what you are attempting to say. The idea that the angels sang that night comes from the part of the passage; Suddenly, there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying, “Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward humankind.”
That is where the song you referenced gets the idea.
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Luke 2:14 :)
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#39
May 17, 2013
15,050
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#39
presidente said:
No since it does not mention heaven and soul sleep adherents can explain it as waking up at the resurrection. I had II Cor. In mind while making my post.

I am not promoting soul sleep and lean toward consciousness in the Lord's presence at death, but the emphasis on dying and going to heaven in some circles is way too much vis a vis the resurrection considering the weight scripture puts on it.
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Just where to you presume to place Jesus at the present moment? We will not have our glorified bodies until Jesus returns for the church but we are with the Lord in spirit.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
P

presidente

Senior Member
#40
May 29, 2013
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#40
If this article is accurate, Charles Wesley wrote, 'Hark how all the welkin rings' then Georgia Whitfield changed this to the more comprehensible and better sounding, but factually questionable like 'Hark the herald angels sing'... since, of course, the Bible does not say the angels sang this, but rather said it.

Here is a page describing the history of the hymn.
https://www.hymnologyarchive.com/hark-the-herald-angels
 
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