Who was Elihu?

[posthuman]

Elihu may have been less culpable than the other three friends of Job (against whom God was wrathful) but he had the same problem as the others -- assuming that Job was guilty as hell because he was made to suffer exceedingly.

can you point out where Elihu says this?

And it was so, that after the LORD had spoken these words unto Job, the LORD said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends: for ye have not spoken of me the thing that is right, as my servant Job hath. (Job 42:7).

this isn't about Elihu.

 

[posthuman]

seems to me that Elihu is suggesting to Job that God may have brought these things on him as a blessing & instruction, to keep him from vanity

God is greater than man.​

Why do you contend with Him?​

For He does not give an accounting of any of His words.​

For God may speak in one way, or in another,​

Yet man does not perceive it.​

In a dream, in a vision of the night,​

When deep sleep falls upon men,​

While slumbering on their beds,​

Then He opens the ears of men,​

And seals their instruction.​

In order to turn man from his deed,​

And conceal pride from man,​

He keeps back his soul from the Pit,​

And his life from perishing by the sword. ​

(Job 33:12-18)​

​

​

and that Elihu's overall premise is that all men ought to humble themselves before God, rather than demand an answer or accounting from Him. God seems to agree, if you read chapters 38-42. it's not recorded in there anywhere that God explains Himself to Job or why these calamities befell him. God reminds Job of the very same things Elihu does, and Job puts his hand over his mouth, and God blesses him more richly than before.

 

[UnoiAmarah]

so why is one seventh of the book of Job Elihu's words, if the point is that no one should listen to Elihu?

2 Be not rash with thy mouth, and let not thine heart be hasty to utter any thing before God: for God is in heaven, and thou upon earth: therefore let thy words be few.
3 For a dream cometh through the multitude of business; and a fool's voice is known by multitude of words.
Eccl 5:2-3

So you still can't admit that true and righteous is the word of the LORD? ( since you seem hesitant to acknowledge that it is written that the LORD said that Job was perfect and upright.)

And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.

As far as the question regarding what happened to Elihu after he rose up to condemn Job, do you think they made him king?

They come in light but go out in darkeness.

 

[posthuman]

So you still can't admit that true and righteous is the word of the LORD? ( since you seem hesitant to acknowledge that it is written that the LORD said that Job was perfect and upright.)

no need for you to speak slanderously.
you're clearly incorrect about Job 38, that's all. it'd be wiser for you to deal with the scripture than to just react by attacking me for telling you the truth.

 

[Nehemiah6]

this isn't about Elihu.

He escaped condemnation by the skin of his teeth. Elihu tried to present himself as smarter than everyone else, and at the same time roundly condemned Job. But for whatever reason (perhaps because he rightly praised God), God did not include him in Chapter 42.

ELIHU BRAGS
For I am full of matter, the spirit within me constraineth me... Behold, I am according to thy wish in God's stead: I also am formed out of the clay... If not, hearken unto me: hold thy peace, and I shall teach thee wisdom.

ELIHU CONDEMNS JOB OUTRIGHT
What man is like Job, who drinketh up scorning like water? Which goeth in company with the workers of iniquity, and walketh with wicked men... Job hath spoken without knowledge, and his words were without wisdom... For he addeth rebellion unto his sin, he clappeth his hands among us, and multiplieth his words against God... But now, because it is not so, he [God] hath visited in his anger; yet he [Job] knoweth it not in great extremity:...

ELIHU CALLS JOB A HYPOCRITE
If they obey and serve him, they shall spend their days in prosperity, and their years in pleasures... But the hypocrites in heart heap up wrath: they cry not when he bindeth them... Even so would he have removed thee out of the strait into a broad place, where there is no straitness; and that which should be set on thy table should be full of fatness. But thou hast fulfilled the judgment of the wicked: judgment and justice take hold on thee. Because there is wrath, beware lest he take thee away with his stroke: then a great ransom cannot deliver thee.

ELIHU ACCUSES JOB FALSELY
Thinkest thou this to be right, that thou saidst, My righteousness is more than God's? ... Take heed, regard not iniquity: for this hast thou chosen rather than affliction.

 

[posthuman]

ELIHU BRAGS
For I am full of matter, the spirit within me constraineth me... Behold, I am according to thy wish in God's stead: I also am formed out of the clay... If not, hearken unto me: hold thy peace, and I shall teach thee wisdom.

you're taking away an awful lot of God's word in between these carefully chosen clips.
but might as well say 'Job brags'

But I have understanding as well as you;​

I am not inferior to you.​

Indeed, who does not know such things as these?​

(Job 12:3)​

​

​

ELIHU CONDEMNS JOB OUTRIGHT
What man is like Job, who drinketh up scorning like water? Which goeth in company with the workers of iniquity, and walketh with wicked men... Job hath spoken without knowledge, and his words were without wisdom... For he addeth rebellion unto his sin, he clappeth his hands among us, and multiplieth his words against God... But now, because it is not so, he [God] hath visited in his anger; yet he [Job] knoweth it not in great extremity:...

previously discussed, you're missing context -- Job is sitting there with 3 men who have been scorning him, and God calls them wicked.
it is Job's 3 friends who say Job is adding rebellion to sin, not Elihu -- and God Himself, and Job Himself, say that Job has been speaking without knowledge.

ELIHU CALLS JOB A HYPOCRITE
If they obey and serve him, they shall spend their days in prosperity, and their years in pleasures... But the hypocrites in heart heap up wrath: they cry not when he bindeth them... Even so would he have removed thee out of the strait into a broad place, where there is no straitness; and that which should be set on thy table should be full of fatness. But thou hast fulfilled the judgment of the wicked: judgment and justice take hold on thee. Because there is wrath, beware lest he take thee away with his stroke: then a great ransom cannot deliver thee.

Elihu is speaking in generalities here about all mankind, not specifically accusing Job of anything. read the context of the chapter. within that context, Elihu is telling Job that he ought to be humble rather than demand God give an account of Himself.
guess what God does. He humbles Job & does not give an account of Himself to him.

why are you deleting lots of verses in-between your quotes and not giving citation, btw?

ELIHU ACCUSES JOB FALSELY
Thinkest thou this to be right, that thou saidst, My righteousness is more than God's? ... Take heed, regard not iniquity: for this hast thou chosen rather than affliction.

you're ignoring/missing context again here, deleting from the scripture in order to misrepresent it.
let's provide it and speak honestly about what is written:

“Do you think this is right?​

Do you say,​

‘My righteousness is more than God’s’?​

For you say,​

‘What advantage will it be to You?​

What profit shall I have, more than if I had sinned?’​

(Job 35:2-3)​

​

now did Job really say he's no better off being righteous than if he had been full of sin?
yup:

I am blameless, yet I do not know myself;​

I despise my life.​

It is all one thing;​

Therefore I say, ‘He destroys the blameless and the wicked.’​

If the scourge slays suddenly,​

He laughs at the plight of the innocent.​

The earth is given into the hand of the wicked.​

He covers the faces of its judges.​

If it is not He, who else could it be?​

“Now my days are swifter than a runner;​

They flee away, they see no good.​

They pass by like swift ships,​

Like an eagle swooping on its prey.​

If I say, ‘I will forget my complaint,​

I will put off my sad face and wear a smile,’​

I am afraid of all my sufferings;​

I know that You will not hold me innocent.​

If I am condemned,​

Why then do I labor in vain?​

If I wash myself with snow water,​

And cleanse my hands with soap,​

Yet You will plunge me into the pit,​

And my own clothes will abhor me.​

(Job 9:21-31)​

​

​

and now for the second disconnected passage a whole chapter away that you deleted all the context of:

Do not desire the night,​

When people are cut off in their place.​

Take heed, do not turn to iniquity,​

For you have chosen this rather than affliction.​

(Job 36:20-21)​

did Job choose night? did Job desire death rather than affliction?
yup:

When I say, ‘My bed will comfort me,​

My couch will ease my complaint,’​

Then You scare me with dreams​

And terrify me with visions,​

So that my soul chooses strangling​

And death rather than my body.​

I loathe my life;​

I would not live forever.​

Let me alone,​

For my days are but a breath. ​

(Job 7:13-16)​

​

​

​

​

​

​

sorry @Nehemiah6 all i'm seeing in your accusations is that they are spurious and deceitful.

 

[posthuman]

there's a fundamental difference between Elihu and the other 3: they make assumptions about Job keep accusing him of things that they have no evidence for ((kinda like our POTUS eh)). Elihu, on the other hand, sticks to things that Job has actually said and criticizes them & the implications they lead to.
throughout the whole book the 3 friends of Job have this premise: that Job is a liar and hiding secret sin.
Elihu has this premise: that Job ought to stop bemoaning himself & dare not act like God has been unjust; who is Job to question God or demand an answer from Him?

 

[posthuman]

But for whatever reason (perhaps because he rightly praised God), God did not include him in Chapter 42.

i think we'd better figure out why God does not say Elihu needs to make sacrifices and have Job pray form him in ch. 42

Job's friends say things in praise of God, too. that's not a sufficient explanation.

 

[posthuman]

Do not desire the night,
When people are cut off in their place.
Take heed, do not turn to iniquity,
For you have chosen this rather than affliction.
(Job 36:20-21)

please note that Elihu is not accusing Job of iniquity. Elihu is warning Job not to fall into iniquity, on the basis of accurate representations of what Job has actually said. this is entirely different than the speeches of his 3 friends, who accuse Job without cause.

 

[posthuman]

ELIHU BRAGS
For I am full of matter, the spirit within me constraineth me... Behold, I am according to thy wish in God's stead: I also am formed out of the clay... If not, hearken unto me: hold thy peace, and I shall teach thee wisdom.

ran into the single-post-character limit so i couldn't supply the context that you deleted.

you've strung together a number of disconnected quotes and we need to do a lot of reading to see whether you are accurately representing him or not.
let me start by putting some of it here:

Now because they were years older than he, Elihu had waited to speak to Job. When Elihu saw that there was no answer in the mouth of these three men, his wrath was aroused.​

​

So Elihu, the son of Barachel the Buzite, answered and said:​

​

“I am young in years, and you are very old;
Therefore I was afraid,
And dared not declare my opinion to you.
I said, ‘Age should speak,
And multitude of years should teach wisdom.’
But there is a spirit in man,
And the breath of the Almighty gives him understanding.
Great men are not always wise,
Nor do the aged always understand justice.​

“Therefore I say, ‘Listen to me,
I also will declare my opinion.’
Indeed I waited for your words,
I listened to your reasonings, while you searched out what to say.
I paid close attention to you;
And surely not one of you convinced Job,
Or answered his words—
Lest you say,
‘We have found wisdom’;
God will vanquish him, not man.
Now he has not directed his words against me;
So I will not answer him with your words.​

“They are dismayed and answer no more;
Words escape them.
And I have waited, because they did not speak,
Because they stood still and answered no more.
I also will answer my part,
I too will declare my opinion.
For I am full of words;
The spirit within me compels me.​

Indeed my belly is like wine that has no vent;
It is ready to burst like new wineskins.
I will speak, that I may find relief;
I must open my lips and answer.
Let me not, I pray, show partiality to anyone;
Nor let me flatter any man.
For I do not know how to flatter,
Else my Maker would soon take me away.
(Job 32:4-22)
​

please read the whole section.
is Elihu 'bragging' that he is full of things he feels need to be said?
no. that's wholly inconsistent with the chapter. in fact he makes a number of statements here in humility, showing respect and deference to his elders, being careful not to speak out of turn, being careful to introduce himself as not speaking on his own behalf but God's, and being careful to explain that it's because of the injustice he perceives in the answers of Job's 3 friends, and the disrespect for God's sovereignty he sees in Job seeking to justify himself rather than humble himself, that he's compelled to speak up.

 

[posthuman]

ELIHU BRAGS

For I am full of matter, the spirit within me constraineth me... Behold, I am according to thy wish in God's stead: I also am formed out of the clay... If not, hearken unto me: hold thy peace, and I shall teach thee wisdom.​

​

now let's continue with some of the other out-of-context picks you put:

If you can answer me,​

Set your words in order before me;​

Take your stand.​

Truly I am as your spokesman before God;​

I also have been formed out of clay.​

Surely no fear of me will terrify you,​

Nor will my hand be heavy on you.
(Job 33:5-7)​

this one is interesting -- what you misuse to call 'bragging' is actually Elihu kindly assuring Job that he is not speaking as his 3 friends have. hearing his friends accuse him, Job has complained that there is no one to mediate with God for him - that there is no 'daysman'

For He is not a man, as I am,​

That I may answer Him,​

And that we should go to court together.​

Nor is there any mediator between us,​

Who may lay his hand on us both.​

Let Him take His rod away from me,​

And do not let dread of Him terrify me.​

Then I would speak and not fear Him,​

But it is not so with me. ​

(Job 9:32-35)
​

Job has lamented that dread of God will terrify him, and Elihu is addressing that directly. Elihu is, in fact, presaging Christ, who is our mediator between us and the Father, 'formed of clay' as we are, making supplication on our behalf.
this that you've called 'bragging' is essentially no different than Elihu saying he will pray for Job; that he is for him, not against him - in stark contrast to his friends, who accuse.

 

[posthuman]

ELIHU BRAGS
For I am full of matter, the spirit within me constraineth me... Behold, I am according to thy wish in God's stead: I also am formed out of the clay... If not, hearken unto me: hold thy peace, and I shall teach thee wisdom.

last bit:

Give ear, Job, listen to me;​

Hold your peace, and I will speak.​

If you have anything to say, answer me;​

Speak, for I desire to justify you.​

If not, listen to me;​

Hold your peace, and I will teach you wisdom.​

(Job 33:31-33)​

​

one interesting point to be made is that Elihu openly invites Job to answer him, but Job does not. it's like Elihu is saying hey, interrupt me at any time if i'm wrong. no one does. no one has a reply for what he has said. no one corrects him on any point.
is this bragging? Elihu says he's on Job's side. that he's not trying to condemn him but to comfort him and add wisdom to him -- what wisdom? his major premise is that Job ought to be justifying God rather than himself. we see this in what he says immediately after the quoted statement above, in chapter 34 --

Job has said, ‘I am righteous,​

But God has taken away my justice;​

Should I lie concerning my right?​

My wound is incurable, though I am without transgression.’​

(Job 34:5-6)​

​

has Job really said this? yup. see chapter 9. Elihu isn't saying things without cause and he isn't slandering Job.
see Job 27:2 -- Job literally says God has taken away his justice. Elihu directly & accurately quotes him. this is completely unlike the speeches of Job's friends.

Therefore listen to me, you men of understanding:​

Far be it from God to do wickedness,​

And from the Almighty to commit iniquity.​

For He repays man according to his work,​

And makes man to find a reward according to his way.​

Surely God will never do wickedly,​

Nor will the Almighty pervert justice.​

(Job 34:10-12)​

​

we should really read all of Job 34 ((we should read all of Job not just cherry-pick things to suit our preconceptions)) but i'm already creating giant walls of text that few people are going to read. suffice this passage then to represent Elihu's premise, again:
God is not unjust. quit acting like He is. God is in heaven and you are on earth, and God is not accountable to you to explain everything that He does and that comes about in your life. you have not been wronged by God just because you've experienced suffering.

If He should set His heart on it,​

If He should gather to Himself His Spirit and His breath,​

All flesh would perish together,​

And man would return to dust. ​

(Job 34:14-15)​

​

the fact that you are alive is mercy from God. quit complaining. instead, you ought to be glorifying Him --

and o, wow, take a look at Job 38-41. what does God say to Job? same thing as Elihu does. what's Job's response? he agrees with Elihu; Job confesses that he ought to keep his hand over his mouth, that he is nothing before God. and @UnoiAmarah God calls this uprightness

 

[posthuman]

He escaped condemnation by the skin of his teeth. Elihu tried to present himself as smarter than everyone else, and at the same time roundly condemned Job. But for whatever reason (perhaps because he rightly praised God), God did not include him in Chapter 42.

ELIHU BRAGS
For I am full of matter, the spirit within me constraineth me... Behold, I am according to thy wish in God's stead: I also am formed out of the clay... If not, hearken unto me: hold thy peace, and I shall teach thee wisdom.

ELIHU CONDEMNS JOB OUTRIGHT
What man is like Job, who drinketh up scorning like water? Which goeth in company with the workers of iniquity, and walketh with wicked men... Job hath spoken without knowledge, and his words were without wisdom... For he addeth rebellion unto his sin, he clappeth his hands among us, and multiplieth his words against God... But now, because it is not so, he [God] hath visited in his anger; yet he [Job] knoweth it not in great extremity:...

ELIHU CALLS JOB A HYPOCRITE
If they obey and serve him, they shall spend their days in prosperity, and their years in pleasures... But the hypocrites in heart heap up wrath: they cry not when he bindeth them... Even so would he have removed thee out of the strait into a broad place, where there is no straitness; and that which should be set on thy table should be full of fatness. But thou hast fulfilled the judgment of the wicked: judgment and justice take hold on thee. Because there is wrath, beware lest he take thee away with his stroke: then a great ransom cannot deliver thee.

ELIHU ACCUSES JOB FALSELY
Thinkest thou this to be right, that thou saidst, My righteousness is more than God's? ... Take heed, regard not iniquity: for this hast thou chosen rather than affliction.

again, i find your arguments spurious, misleading and deceitful. i can support that opinion from scripture, as i've done, and can add more if necessary.

but thanks for replying, i really do appreciate it. a lot of people just hit-and-run with comments or come back with slanderous personal attacks when their theses are contradicted

 

[posthuman]

i think we'd better figure out why God does not say Elihu needs to make sacrifices and have Job pray form him in ch. 42

Job's friends say things in praise of God, too. that's not a sufficient explanation.

perhaps God's response to Job, giving many of the same arguments that Elihu has, is tacit approval of his dialogue, enough, such that there is no need to mark him for praise and no cause to rebuke or condemn him.

 

[UnoiAmarah]

you're clearly incorrect about Job 38, that's all

Do you mean that part about where I said that by virtue of the atmosphere being formed on the 2nd day of creation that there never was a global that destroyed all flesh that was upon the earth?

The fact that it is written that the LORD said that it shall come to pass that when he brought a cloud over the earth that the bow shall be seen in the cloud, does not change the fact that it came to pass on the 2nd day of creation. That is the day that the LORD made the firmament in the midst of the waters that covered the entire face of the earth written in Genesis 1:2. The fact the earth's atmosphere was formed by that firmament doesn't change it from being the cloud that covers the earth like a garment.

While it is written the bow shall be seen in the cloud, there is a good reason why you don't see it is the curvature of the earth's atmosphere, being the cloud that covers the earth like a garment, but I none the less I perceive you will land on your feet.

Deut 28:7

 

[ewq1938]

Elihu may have been less culpable than the other three friends of Job (against whom God was wrathful) but he had the same problem as the others -- assuming that Job was guilty as hell because he was made to suffer exceedingly.



And it was so, that after the LORD had spoken these words unto Job, the LORD said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends: for ye have not spoken of me the thing that is right, as my servant Job hath. (Job 42:7).

Nothing Elihu said was untrue or wrong. He spoke the truth first, then God stepped in and continued. Job was berated for his bad behavior and things he said for several chapters before he finally realized it and repented.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Nothing Elihu said was untrue or wrong.

Since I actually quoted Elihu's false statements directly from the Bible, you do not have a leg to stand on. Calling Job a hypocrite was untrue, and accusing him of wickedness was wrong. That was bearing false witness. A sin.

 

[ewq1938]

Since I actually quoted Elihu's false statements directly from the Bible, you do not have a leg to stand on. Calling Job a hypocrite was untrue, and accusing him of wickedness was wrong. That was bearing false witness. A sin.

No, those things were true of Job and he eventually repented of them. Job was the sinner, not Elihu.

 

[ewq1938]

Job 6:2 Oh that my grief were throughly weighed, and my calamity laid in the balances together!
Job 6:3 For now it would be heavier than the sand of the sea: therefore my words are swallowed up.
Job 6:4 For the arrows of the Almighty are within me, the poison whereof drinketh up my spirit: the terrors of God do set themselves in array against me.


Job charges God with symbolically attacking him with poisoned arrows, and unnamed terrors that God has at his disposal. Is this really what God does to those he loves and considers righteous? Is Job correct that God is doing this and is responsible for his misfortunes?

 

[ewq1938]

Job 6:5 Doth the wild ass bray when he hath grass? or loweth the ox over his fodder?
Job 6:6 Can that which is unsavoury be eaten without salt? or is there any taste in the white of an egg?
Job 6:7 The things that my soul refused to touch are as my sorrowful meat.
Job 6:8 Oh that I might have my request; and that God would grant me the thing that I long for!
Job 6:9 Even that it would please God to destroy me; that he would let loose his hand, and cut me off!
Job 6:10 Then should I yet have comfort; yea, I would harden myself in sorrow: let him not spare; for I have not concealed the words of the Holy One.
Job 6:11 What is my strength, that I should hope? and what is mine end, that I should prolong my life?
Job 6:12 Is my strength the strength of stones? or is my flesh of brass?
Job 6:13 Is not my help in me? and is wisdom driven quite from me?
Job 6:14 To him that is afflicted pity should be shewed from his friend; but he forsaketh the fear of the Almighty.
Job 6:15 My brethren have dealt deceitfully as a brook, and as the stream of brooks they pass away;
Job 6:16 Which are blackish by reason of the ice, and wherein the snow is hid:
Job 6:17 What time they wax warm, they vanish: when it is hot, they are consumed out of their place.
Job 6:18 The paths of their way are turned aside; they go to nothing, and perish.
Job 6:19 The troops of Tema looked, the companies of Sheba waited for them.
Job 6:20 They were confounded because they had hoped; they came thither, and were ashamed.
Job 6:21 For now ye are nothing; ye see my casting down, and are afraid.
Job 6:22 Did I say, Bring unto me? or, Give a reward for me of your substance?
Job 6:23 Or, Deliver me from the enemy's hand? or, Redeem me from the hand of the mighty?
Job 6:24 Teach me, and I will hold my tongue: and cause me to understand wherein I have erred.


Little does Job know that he shall eventually be scolded and taught by God himself, and he would come to understand the errors of his tongue. This takes place near the end of the book for several chapters but is awhile yet in the future. Job continues:


Job 6:25 How forcible are right words! but what doth your arguing reprove?
Job 6:26 Do ye imagine to reprove words, and the speeches of one that is desperate, which are as wind?
Job 6:27 Yea, ye overwhelm the fatherless, and ye dig a pit for your friend.
Job 6:28 Now therefore be content, look upon me; for it is evident unto you if I lie.
Job 6:29 Return, I pray you, let it not be iniquity; yea, return again, my righteousness is in it.
Job 6:30 Is there iniquity in my tongue? cannot my taste discern perverse things?

Pride is deceptive. It assures you that you are right, even when you are not. Job cannot yet see how his tongue is full of iniquity and untruth about God but he will be shown the truth.