When spiritual leaders fall.

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Lanolin

Lanolin

Well-known member
#22
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,188
113
#22
most congregations dont actually go anywhere....so how can they be 'lead'.
 
Aerials1978

Aerials1978

Well-known member
#23
Dec 10, 2019
1,707
987
113
#23
Lanolin said:
most congregations dont actually go anywhere....so how can they be 'lead'.
Click to expand...
They are supposed to shepherd their flocks. They have a bigger responsibility of the people they are leading in truth.
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#24
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#24
Its time for Christians to stop ' idolising these types of apologists / theologians. There should also be an uncomfortable, awkwardness from these ' leaders ' that is embarrassed to receive the adulation, admiration and following they have heaped upon them . They should be admonishing the ' followers ' to get back to the Scriptures and stop promoting and idolising these men . The whole thing is a mess . So when they stumble and fall ,people are rocked so much .
 
true_believer

true_believer

Well-known member
#25
Sep 24, 2020
940
360
63
#25
From the results that have been found from investigations of the allegations, one would have to ask if Ravi Zacharias was ever a Christian?
 
E

Edify

Well-known member
#26
Jan 27, 2021
1,559
656
113
#26
I didn't know till now that a thread was out about him. I was rolling it around in my mind whether to start my own thread, & now I don't have to.

From https://www.christianitytoday.com/n...-investigation-sexual-abuse-sexting-rape.html

A 12-page report released Thursday by Ravi Zacharias International Ministries (RZIM) confirms abuse by Zacharias at day spas he owned in Atlanta and uncovers five additional victims in the US, as well as evidence of sexual abuse in Thailand, India, and Malaysia.
Even a limited review of Zacharias’s old devices revealed contacts for more than 200 massage therapists in the US and Asia and hundreds of images of young women, including some that showed the women naked. Zacharias solicited and received photos until a few months before his death in May 2020 at age 74.
Zacharias used tens of thousands of dollars of ministry funds dedicated to a “humanitarian effort” to pay four massage therapists, providing them housing, schooling, and monthly support for extended periods of time, according to investigators.

Miller & Martin attorneys Lynsey Barron and William Eiselstein, hired by RZIM to investigate, interviewed 50 witnesses and examined phones Zacharias used from 2014 to 2018. In the end, the lawyers said “we are confident that we uncovered sufficient evidence to conclude that Mr. Zacharias engaged in sexual misconduct,” though the investigation was not exhaustive. (emphasis mine)

Well, he wasn't one of the "christian champions" from the top of the list, so I don't see the govt in on it. His own organization hired an investgated team of lawyers to look into it, so I don't see how it could be a witchhunt.

If I were going to start such a scandal, there's a lot bigger fish out there than him.

Are we so afraid that we're in the last days that we don't want to know what's going on? If the truth be known, this is just the tip of the iceberg.
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#27
May 23, 2012
13,058
4,344
113
#27
Aerials1978 said:
With the recent allegations against Ravi Zacharias coming about, I felt pressed to ask, what do we do when our spiritual leader fall?

Although the claims made against Ravi after his passing have not been proven to be true, there is evidence to support that they might be.

This is very disheartening to many as he was a very well established apologetic and ministry leader. His work reached thousands and he did speak the truth of God.

I think of my own sin and how I’m only a few inches from falling into the pit of transgressions at any given time. This only confirms the notion that we all have fallen short the glory of God and need a savior for past, current, and future sins.

Your thoughts?
Click to expand...

I don't know what was said about the man who is dead, but many say a lot about those who have passed away.

I have heard everything from Billy Graham was a devil worshiper to and wife beater. We are to keep our eyes on God, not man.
 
Aerials1978

Aerials1978

Well-known member
#28
Dec 10, 2019
1,707
987
113
#28
CS1 said:
I don't know what was said about the man who is dead, but many say a lot about those who have passed away.

I have heard everything from Billy Graham was a devil worshiper to and wife beater. We are to keep our eyes on God, not man.
Click to expand...
It has been confirmed by his ministry that these things did happen for many years. And you’re correct, our faith should not be upon any human but God alone.
 
E

Edify

Well-known member
#29
Jan 27, 2021
1,559
656
113
#29
CS1 said:
I don't know what was said about the man who is dead, but many say a lot about those who have passed away.

I have heard everything from Billy Graham was a devil worshiper to and wife beater. We are to keep our eyes on God, not man.
Click to expand...
Well, Graham was a 33rd degree freemason who proved it by all his Masonic friends he had, besides the presidents.
The Bible says it plainly, John 15:19 If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, because of this the world hates you.
The media loved Graham, The magazines & newspapers loved Graham. The Clinton family loved Graham. He & Bill were good friends. Yet somehow I suspect you don't believe this. It's out there on the net.:)
 
G

Godsgirl83

Guest
#30
#30
Edify said:
Well, Graham was a 33rd degree freemason who proved it by all his Masonic friends he had, besides the presidents.
The Bible says it plainly, John 15:19 If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, because of this the world hates you.
The media loved Graham, The magazines & newspapers loved Graham. The Clinton family loved Graham. He & Bill were good friends. Yet somehow I suspect you don't believe this. It's out there on the net.:)
Click to expand...
"It's out there on the net".......
:unsure: hmmmm so that MUST mean it's true then huh?
I just........
*shaking head*
I just can't even............
*shakes head again*
Just can't even find the words I want to use right now other than WOW.
 
GandalfTheWhite

GandalfTheWhite

Senior Member
#31
Jan 25, 2015
9,221
3,201
113
#31
Godsgirl83 said:
"It's out there on the net".......
:unsure: hmmmm so that MUST mean it's true then huh?
I just........
*shaking head*
I just can't even............
*shakes head again*
Just can't even find the words I want to use right now other than WOW.
Click to expand...
Or people quote Wikipedia as a reliable source :ROFL::ROFL::ROFL::ROFL::ROFL:
 
G

Godsgirl83

Guest
#32
#32
GandalfTheWhite said:
Or people quote Wikipedia as a reliable source :ROFL::ROFL::ROFL::ROFL::ROFL:
Click to expand...
no Gandy, it's not just the "it's on the net, so must be true" line.....
I'm shaking my head at the WHOLE thing......
"it must be true" AND the post throwing Billy Grahm under the bus......
I just can't ........
*shaking head*
WOW!

oh and btw I saw a pic earlier...
then there was this whole story going with it about how pigs fly.........
well, I did find this on the internet, so it MUST be true
 
GandalfTheWhite

GandalfTheWhite

Senior Member
#33
Jan 25, 2015
9,221
3,201
113
#33
Godsgirl83 said:
no Gandy, it's not just the "it's on the net, so must be true" line.....
I'm shaking my head at the WHOLE thing......
"it must be true" AND the post throwing Billy Grahm under the bus......
I just can't ........
*shaking head*
WOW!

oh and btw I saw a pic earlier...
then there was this whole story going with it about how pigs fly.........
well, I did find this on the internet, so it MUST be true
Click to expand...
They have the same attack on Ravi Zacharias now, and whether it is true or not we will never be able to determine because we don't have the information. It is between Ravi, Billy and God and if I judge one of them I will be judged in the same way so I will turn my back on these speculations and move on. Why do we try to be judge an jury over people in the afterlife?
 
GandalfTheWhite

GandalfTheWhite

Senior Member
#34
Jan 25, 2015
9,221
3,201
113
#34
The other thing that is amazing is that people can criticize Billy Graham........ I wonder how many outreaches have they done? Just thinking out loud here.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#35
#35
Ravi just shows that no matter who we are, how strong we are and how mature we are, sin is always creeping, waiting at the door. It proves as scripture says we should always be on guard, never think we have made it. And remember, we have examples in scripture where spiritual amd civil learn have fallen (think King David, Abraham, etc etc)

it should give us pause, cause us sorrow for Ravi’s family, and turn us to Christ, our only true leader who is and will ever be perfect and never let us down.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#36
#36
true_believer said:
From the results that have been found from investigations of the allegations, one would have to ask if Ravi Zacharias was ever a Christian?
Click to expand...
If we would think this, we would probably wonder if anyone could be a christian
 
true_believer

true_believer

Well-known member
#37
Sep 24, 2020
940
360
63
#37
eternally-gratefull said:
If we would think this, we would probably wonder if anyone could be a christian
Click to expand...
If you look at the allegations against him in past several years, he is also a major con man.
His word salad apologetics was mere a front for his ego and celebrity status.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#38
#38
true_believer said:
If you look at the allegations against him in past several years, he is also a major con man.
His word salad apologetics was mere a front for his ego and celebrity status.
Click to expand...
Let he who has no sin cast the first stone. I know a few people who he helped greatly in some areas of there lives. You will have to forgive me if I do not just want to cast him to the ground.
 
Blade

Blade

Well-known member
#39
Nov 19, 2019
1,779
624
113
#39
Aerials1978 said:
With the recent allegations against Ravi Zacharias coming about, I felt pressed to ask, what do we do when our spiritual leader fall?

Although the claims made against Ravi after his passing have not been proven to be true, there is evidence to support that they might be.

This is very disheartening to many as he was a very well established apologetic and ministry leader. His work reached thousands and he did speak the truth of God.

I think of my own sin and how I’m only a few inches from falling into the pit of transgressions at any given time. This only confirms the notion that we all have fallen short the glory of God and need a savior for past, current, and future sins.

Your thoughts?
Click to expand...
Hes not here... can't defend himself. Does not help him or his FAMILY that lost a loved one. So reach out to the family and talk to them. Everything here is hearsay no more not less. For me since my Father will not in any way talk about it.. not touching it
 
E

Edify

Well-known member
#40
Jan 27, 2021
1,559
656
113
#40
Godsgirl83 said:
"It's out there on the net".......
:unsure: hmmmm so that MUST mean it's true then huh?
I just........
*shaking head*
I just can't even............
*shakes head again*
Just can't even find the words I want to use right now other than WOW.
Click to expand...
Wow, I have the power to make a female speechless... I wonder if the Avengers will be calling me?:ROFL:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.