Must we repent in order to be forgiven?

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throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#61
God has done more than that for me to make it possible for me to choose rightly.

And they are promises made in Scripture... :)

So I know beyond a shadow of a doubt: His Word is True.
The promise is to all who believe .
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,424
113
#66
I wonder why it seems so difficult to understand about the forgiveness of sin that we are given. Sin kills, is that difficult to understand? Forgiveness gives eternal life. That again is simple. What people seem so caught up with misunderstanding is that a forgiven person is righteous, sin free, clear of all sin. They are cleared of sin because they want to have the sin gone, to not be burdened with it, to live eternally. They wanted Christ to forgive their sin. They repented. If they decide they want the sin, eternal life and righteousness isn't worthwhile to them, then they go back to the sin that causes death.
\
People who do not want to sin are then taunted and ridiculed. They are told they should want to sin because being sin free is working for salvation and works won't save. It is true, works won't save so they feel self righteous in their taunting. Saved people are told they are arrogant and self righteous, and not made righteous through Christ.

I hope those who accept Christ as part of them, who turn to Christ, will just ignore these people who taunt them. You cannot be sin free of yourselves, but through Christ you are sin free, forgiven, clean. Your will has been given over to Christ. You repent of all sin. Glory in it, thank the Lord for what He has done for you.
 

JohnDB

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2021
5,633
2,213
113
#67
I wonder why it seems so difficult to understand about the forgiveness of sin that we are given. Sin kills, is that difficult to understand? Forgiveness gives eternal life. That again is simple. What people seem so caught up with misunderstanding is that a forgiven person is righteous, sin free, clear of all sin. They are cleared of sin because they want to have the sin gone, to not be burdened with it, to live eternally. They wanted Christ to forgive their sin. They repented. If they decide they want the sin, eternal life and righteousness isn't worthwhile to them, then they go back to the sin that causes death.
\
People who do not want to sin are then taunted and ridiculed. They are told they should want to sin because being sin free is working for salvation and works won't save. It is true, works won't save so they feel self righteous in their taunting. Saved people are told they are arrogant and self righteous, and not made righteous through Christ.

I hope those who accept Christ as part of them, who turn to Christ, will just ignore these people who taunt them. You cannot be sin free of yourselves, but through Christ you are sin free, forgiven, clean. Your will has been given over to Christ. You repent of all sin. Glory in it, thank the Lord for what He has done for you.
Now I do agree with you...

But what about sins you don't understand are sins or are unsure about?
Is it a Sabbath Day type issue or a "meat" type issue? Or something similar? Or is it cut and dry like stealing? How do you know the difference?
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,350
1,188
113
#68
Jesus establishes the principle that there are only two spiritual conditions of man - regenerated and unregenerated - by His words, "He that is not with Me is against Me."

It is not necessary for God to convict regenerated hearts to follow Him - they are already doing that. Therefore, the only hearts in need of such conviction are unregenerated hearts.
Do you realise that you have imputed some more of your own theories, without any scriptures to back them up?

I study from the KJV and the words "convict", "conviction" are not found in the scriptures. "convicted" is only found one time in John 8:9

John 8:9, (Jesus asking them who is without sin among you) And they which heard it, being convicted (rebuke, reprove) by their own conscience.

The natural man that still has the heart of stone (unregenerate) will not repent of breaking a spiritual law that he cannot discern, and thinks it to be foolishness.

The only heart that can be pricked to feel quilt of spiritual nature is the new heart of flesh that has a spiritual conscience.

We, as regenerated children of God, including yourself, do at times, commit sins and our hearts are pricked by God to feel guilty, which causes us to repent.

When the regenerate person commits a sin, it, temporary, separates them from their fellowship with God, because God will not fellowship sin. When this happens we do not lose our eternal inheritance, only our fellowship with God, temporary, until we repent.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,350
1,188
113
#69
Jesus said that even perfect obedience to Him by His servants is "unprofitable" and I agree with Jesus.

Therefore, the problem isn't me teaching salvation by works -- the problem is you trying to obtain eternal life through dead faith when James is clear it's obtained only by living faith.
I am assuming, sense you do not quote scriptures, that "by living faith", you mean "faith without works is dead"

Eph 2:10, says "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus, unto good works". Being created in Christ Jesus is evidence that we are already born again, Eph 2:5.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,350
1,188
113
#70
Jesus said that even perfect obedience to Him by His servants is "unprofitable" and I agree with Jesus.

Therefore, the problem isn't me teaching salvation by works -- the problem is you trying to obtain eternal life through dead faith when James is clear it's obtained only by living faith.
Yes! Jesus is establishing that your good works does not contribute to your salvation, because your works are your duty in that you are already saved.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
56,055
26,162
113
#71
People who do not want to sin are then taunted and ridiculed. They are told they should want to sin because being sin free is working for salvation and works won't save.
Can you show us an example of this? It seems rather far fetched... like many of your false allegations.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,350
1,188
113
#72
Yes, and I certainly remember mine, (un-regenerate heart) and I also remember very clearly
that if my Saviour had not been 'working-calling/protecting me through oh so many years,
'before' my conversion, then I would most definitely be in the grave bodily,
kind of like where my 'old-man' now resides...
Most of God's regenerated children have a lot of confusion about being born again, and being converted.

When we are new born babes in Christ we survive upon the milk of the word, with very little knowledge of spiritual things, but as we gradually mature, we grow enough to be convicted of our sins, and as we come unto a knowledge of the truth. we are converted. Conversion always follows being born again. Isaiah 28:9-10.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,350
1,188
113
#74
I wonder why it seems so difficult to understand about the forgiveness of sin that we are given. Sin kills, is that difficult to understand? Forgiveness gives eternal life. That again is simple. What people seem so caught up with misunderstanding is that a forgiven person is righteous, sin free, clear of all sin. They are cleared of sin because they want to have the sin gone, to not be burdened with it, to live eternally. They wanted Christ to forgive their sin. They repented. If they decide they want the sin, eternal life and righteousness isn't worthwhile to them, then they go back to the sin that causes death.
\
People who do not want to sin are then taunted and ridiculed. They are told they should want to sin because being sin free is working for salvation and works won't save. It is true, works won't save so they feel self righteous in their taunting. Saved people are told they are arrogant and self righteous, and not made righteous through Christ.

I hope those who accept Christ as part of them, who turn to Christ, will just ignore these people who taunt them. You cannot be sin free of yourselves, but through Christ you are sin free, forgiven, clean. Your will has been given over to Christ. You repent of all sin. Glory in it, thank the Lord for what He has done for you.
Death according to Greek translation means "a separation".

The natural man will not repent of breaking a spiritual law that he cannot discern, and thinks it to be foolishness, 1 Cor 2:14.

Those who repent of breaking a spiritual law are already born again. Sin separates them from their fellowship with God, temporary, until they repent, because God will not fellowship sin. They do not lose their eternal inheritance, just their fellowship with God, temporary.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,350
1,188
113
#76
Now I do agree with you...

But what about sins you don't understand are sins or are unsure about?
Is it a Sabbath Day type issue or a "meat" type issue? Or something similar? Or is it cut and dry like stealing? How do you know the difference?
See post #68.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,424
113
#79
Now I do agree with you...

But what about sins you don't understand are sins or are unsure about?
Is it a Sabbath Day type issue or a "meat" type issue? Or something similar? Or is it cut and dry like stealing? How do you know the difference?
The sacrificial system is a shadow of Christ, and by learning all about it we can better understand what it shadowed. One fascinating thing about this system is telling what is sin that we can be forgiven for, and it lists the sins we are unaware of. We can ask forgiveness for these sins.

In a way it is a meat type issue in that we are always to be humble before the Lord, and listen for His voice. The Holy Spirit can show us sins we are unaware of, we are to listen to the Holy spirit.
 
Aug 3, 2019
3,744
507
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#80
Jesus said "this is the work of God, that you believe on Him who He has sent". So we understand that the work of God is through faith in Jesus Christ and faith through the Spirit. So work is no more work. Our work now is ministered by the Spirit and not of the flesh.
You're speaking of "Christian Origination" - what about "Christian Obligation"? We are obliged as Christians to continually remain surrendered to God aka "abide in Me". If we rebel and stubbornly refuse to surrender no matter how much the Holy Spirit pleads, we'll eventually lose the ability to surrender and be lost eternally.