Must we repent in order to be forgiven?

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Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
4,354
1,337
113
#1
We are told many things about this, but what is the bottom line?

We cannot be saved through obedience to the law.

In Gelasian’s 2: 19 “For through the law I died to the law so that I might live to God.

Romans 6: 2 “How shall we, that dead to sin, live any more therein”.

In Matthew 3;2 we are told that the ministry of Christ centered on repentance. As Matthew spoke of Christ beginning His ministry he said consisted of: Matt:2 “Repent ye; for the kingdom of heaven is in hand”. If we live in a state of repentance, we live by the perfection of Christ, wanting to be sinless like Christ.

Christ told us to be perfect as the Lord is perfect. We know that is impossible except through Christ. Can we accept the sin in our life as OK and still have Christ within?

We are told that if we claim perfection, we lie. Yet all our sins are forgiven through Christ and we can live as if are perfect.

We know that there is no sin except blasphemy that we can’t be forgiven for. We also know we can depend completely on the promises of the Lord, and we are promised forgiveness if we repent and ask.

What is the bottom line from all these?
 

Phoneman-777

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2019
1,044
216
63
#2
We are told many things about this, but what is the bottom line?

We cannot be saved through obedience to the law.

In Gelasian’s 2: 19 “For through the law I died to the law so that I might live to God.

Romans 6: 2 “How shall we, that dead to sin, live any more therein”.

In Matthew 3;2 we are told that the ministry of Christ centered on repentance. As Matthew spoke of Christ beginning His ministry he said consisted of: Matt:2 “Repent ye; for the kingdom of heaven is in hand”. If we live in a state of repentance, we live by the perfection of Christ, wanting to be sinless like Christ.

Christ told us to be perfect as the Lord is perfect. We know that is impossible except through Christ. Can we accept the sin in our life as OK and still have Christ within?

We are told that if we claim perfection, we lie. Yet all our sins are forgiven through Christ and we can live as if are perfect.

We know that there is no sin except blasphemy that we can’t be forgiven for. We also know we can depend completely on the promises of the Lord, and we are promised forgiveness if we repent and ask.

What is the bottom line from all these?
Repentance doesn't earn salvation, repentance is the means by which we accept salvation - through exercise of free will choice, plain and simple.

When Christians realize that choice is not "work" but is merely "thought", then they will cease from this confusion of a false dichotomy between faith and works. Thus, works have nothing to do with obtaining salvation, they are the evidence that salvation has been obtain - through repentance- and that is why the absence of works is evidence to the contrary.

1 John 2:3-4 KJV says it all. The problem is our love of sin refuses to allow us to accept what is written here, but if we look to the Cross and see what sin has done to Jesus, God will grant us a hatred of it...which is all He ever wanted for us to have.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
16,514
9,020
113
#3
"MUST" we repent? Is God's forgiveness contingent upon our repentance? What exactly is repentance?

As with forgiveness, thorough treatment of this topic would require a book. In the end though, the answer would be no different: repent anyway, and get on with life.
 

FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
908
306
63
#4
OP question: Must we repent in order to be forgiven?


One needs to REPENT from UNBELIEF/REJECTING Jesus as the Christ.

Jn 12:22 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw ""all"" men unto me.
(NOTE: Jesus was in fact lifted up on a cross & from the grave. Therefore he will via the Holy Spirit, draw ALL to God. Unfortunately not ALL will accept & receive his eternal life's offer )

Jn 16:
7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
(NOTE: The Holy Spirit will reprove/expose/convict everyone of, sins? NO of "SIN" singular.)

9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
(NOTE: The only SIN that condemns one to eternal separation/damnation is UNBELIEF/rejecting Christ's sin atoning sacrifice & resurrection until life's end.)

Once a person believes/acknowledges:
1) There is a sovereign God creator & they have sinned against His rule. And owe sins required wage = DEATH.

2) He sent His Son to pay sins required debt wage.

3) They place their faith/trust/belief in Christ's sin atoning death (sins required wage, PAID) burial (proof Jesus died) & resurrection (Fathers receipt, sins payment received & accepted). Every other sin EVER committed (Past-Present-Future) finds remission = complete pardon/total forgiveness!
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
18,124
4,521
113
#5
Forgiveness from our Father is for all, however salvation, as with any gift, must be received. Any who want Salvation must repent, however when they show they do not care about the gift, they have chosen evil over good, and over God.

Some actually choose evil over good. Today it seems most do. So, yes, all are forgiven, however all do not wish to have the free gift of salvation in Jesus-Yeshua.
 

Aerials1978

Well-known member
Dec 10, 2019
1,183
709
113
#6
One true sign that one has been “Forgiven” is the conviction of your sin and not wanting to continue in it. Some choose to continue. In doing so you may lose favor with Jesus and if grievous enough, He may cut your life short(Ananias and Sapphira. The Sin that leads to death; 1 John 5:16-17)

The bottom line is God has been dealing with humanity since the beginning and nothing comes as a surprise to Him. Our thoughts, behavior, attitudes, were all known before the creation of the universe.

The truth is it’s beyond amazing that He shows any of us grace. If you have committed transgressions again Him, show your love for Him and ask Him to help you not to do them anymore. That’s true forgiveness. That’s what God seeks in a Believer.
 

Phoneman-777

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2019
1,044
216
63
#8
"MUST" we repent? Is God's forgiveness contingent upon our repentance? What exactly is repentance?

As with forgiveness, thorough treatment of this topic would require a book. In the end though, the answer would be no different: repent anyway, and get on with life.
No need to write a book; the answer is here:

"I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now." John 16:12 KJV

By virtue of the above verse, we cannot but conclude born-again saints walk the Path of the Just alongside God where He reveals to us little by little, one at a time, our sins...sins from which He expects us to repent by His grace. If at any time we say, "Sorry, Lord, I've given up all that other stuff but I'm NOT giving up this" -- and persist in rebellion to the point we lose the ability to repent altogether through a hardened heart and a seared conscience -- we'll end up in the Lake of Fire.

Those who disagree are simply deluding themselves into believing they can obtain by dead faith that which can only be obtained by living faith: eternal life.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
5,427
846
113
#10
We are told many things about this, but what is the bottom line?

We cannot be saved through obedience to the law.

In Gelasian’s 2: 19 “For through the law I died to the law so that I might live to God.

Romans 6: 2 “How shall we, that dead to sin, live any more therein”.

In Matthew 3;2 we are told that the ministry of Christ centered on repentance. As Matthew spoke of Christ beginning His ministry he said consisted of: Matt:2 “Repent ye; for the kingdom of heaven is in hand”. If we live in a state of repentance, we live by the perfection of Christ, wanting to be sinless like Christ.

Christ told us to be perfect as the Lord is perfect. We know that is impossible except through Christ. Can we accept the sin in our life as OK and still have Christ within?

We are told that if we claim perfection, we lie. Yet all our sins are forgiven through Christ and we can live as if are perfect.

We know that there is no sin except blasphemy that we can’t be forgiven for. We also know we can depend completely on the promises of the Lord, and we are promised forgiveness if we repent and ask.

What is the bottom line from all these?
1 Cor 2:14, The natural, unregenerate, man that has not had his heart changed in the new birth, Ezk 36:26, will not repent of breaking a spiritual law that he cannot discern, and thinks it to be foolishness. Only the regenerated person that has been born again with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and has been given the new fleshy heart that can be pricked to feel guilt will repent of breaking a spiritual law.
 
Mar 21, 2009
3,782
1,462
113
New York
#11
Hey man, you can't be using throwbacks for your profile pic...thus saith the avatar police.
LOL. It's my reminder that I used to have only one chin. Helps me say no to pizza. Except on Fridays. Calories don't count on Fridays.
...and Saturdays.
 

Phoneman-777

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2019
1,044
216
63
#12
1 Cor 2:14, The natural, unregenerate, man that has not had his heart changed in the new birth, Ezk 36:26, will not repent of breaking a spiritual law that he cannot discern, and thinks it to be foolishness. Only the regenerated person that has been born again with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and has been given the new fleshy heart that can be pricked to feel guilt will repent of breaking a spiritual law.
True...when the sinner is convicted by the Holy Spirit of his need for the Savior, he is at a crossroads where he will either surrender to Him and receive pardon and power to obey, or he will go his way, forgetting what manner of man he was shown to be, as James illustrates with his allegorical "mirror".
 

Runningman

Well-known member
Mar 4, 2020
942
827
93
#13
In the many woes of the Pharisees, Jesus said:

Matthew 23:25-28
25Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess. 26Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
27Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness. 28Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

I think the point is that it doesn't matter how clean the outside of the cup is if the inside is filthy. The part of the cup that matter the most when it's being used is the the inside. They were like white tombs that were outwardly nice looking, but inwardly dead inside; internally they were hypocrites and sinful.

God doesn't want us to be like them. We need to be genuine in our faith, especially inwardly where the spirit and truth are, not outwardly only with lip service.

John 4:24
24God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Matthew 15:8-9
8This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Romans 12:1-2
1I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. 2And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

And God knows who fakers are. Should we repent? Yes. If anyone tells you not to repent be careful listening to them.
 

Phoneman-777

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2019
1,044
216
63
#14
LOL. It's my reminder that I used to have only one chin. Helps me say no to pizza. Except on Fridays. Calories don't count on Fridays.
...and Saturdays.
I think there's a sad song about "A Hill Called Calories" ... ever heard of it you handsome man, you?
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
5,427
846
113
#15
Repentance doesn't earn salvation, repentance is the means by which we accept salvation - through exercise of free will choice, plain and simple.

When Christians realize that choice is not "work" but is merely "thought", then they will cease from this confusion of a false dichotomy between faith and works. Thus, works have nothing to do with obtaining salvation, they are the evidence that salvation has been obtain - through repentance- and that is why the absence of works is evidence to the contrary.

1 John 2:3-4 KJV says it all. The problem is our love of sin refuses to allow us to accept what is written here, but if we look to the Cross and see what sin has done to Jesus, God will grant us a hatred of it...which is all He ever wanted for us to have.
Save, Saved, Salvation, according to Greek interpretation, means; Deliver, Delivered, and deliverance.

There is an eternal deliverance, and there are many deliverances that the regenerated person receives as he sojourns here in this world.

By not recognizing the difference and crediting all salvation scriptures to mean eternal deliverance will result in "eternal salvation by works".

There is a deliverance (salvation) here in this world when a regenerated person repents. When the regenerated person commits a sin, he dies (death=separation) separates himself from his fellowship with God, because God will not fellowship sin. He does not lose his eternal deliverance, only his temporary fellowship with God, until he repents. This deliverance is a "deliverance by works".

In 1 John 2:2, the word "world" is restricted to "the world of believers only" which is also the same "world" in John 1:29, 3:16, 3:17, 6:33, 12:47, 1 Cor 4:9, 2 Cor 5:19 according to Thayer's concordance.
 

CharliRenee

Member
Staff member
Nov 4, 2014
6,197
6,764
113
#16
Without repentance, how can we come into agreement that we need His Salvation?
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
5,427
846
113
#17
True...when the sinner is convicted by the Holy Spirit of his need for the Savior, he is at a crossroads where he will either surrender to Him and receive pardon and power to obey, or he will go his way, forgetting what manner of man he was shown to be, as James illustrates with his allegorical "mirror".
How is the natural man, that thinks spiritual things are foolishness, "convicted by the Holy Spirit of his need for the Savior"?
 

Phoneman-777

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2019
1,044
216
63
#18
How is the natural man, that thinks spiritual things are foolishness, "convicted by the Holy Spirit of his need for the Savior"?
Easy...Paul says "it is the goodness of God that leadeth thee to repentance."

See? If you agree that repentance is the line of demarcation between "natural man" and "spiritual man", then you have to agree - as Paul's words declare -that God uses the Holy Spirit to lead the natural man to that line, right or wrong?

Yes, it is foolishness to the natural man when he hears YOU and ME preach the Gospel...but when the Holy Spirit drives that dagger in his heart and he is brought under conviction, well that's a whole other kettle of fish.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
4,354
1,337
113
#19
LOL. It's my reminder that I used to have only one chin. Helps me say no to pizza. Except on Fridays. Calories don't count on Fridays.
...and Saturdays.
I found the road to only one chin is like the road to understanding scripture: if the Lord made it and man didn't try to improve it, it is fine to eat, otherwise leave it alone. White bread, pasta, white rice, degermed cornmeal, etc.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
4,354
1,337
113
#20
Easy...Paul says "it is the goodness of God that leadeth thee to repentance."

See? If you agree that repentance is the line of demarcation between "natural man" and "spiritual man", then you have to agree - as Paul's words declare -that God uses the Holy Spirit to lead the natural man to that line, right or wrong?

Yes, it is foolishness to the natural man when he hears YOU and ME preach the Gospel...but when the Holy Spirit drives that dagger in his heart and he is brought under conviction, well that's a whole other kettle of fish.
Our holy, gracious, magnificent God forgives our sin, all God asks is that we truly do not want to sin.