Was Jesus the first man?

p_rehbein · Jan 20, 2021

This and other Threads where she is commenting would strongly suggest she is leaning towards argumentative. There used to be another Member here, can't remember his Screen Name right off, that had the exact same style of communicating. Blunt, and no matter what answer someone gave him, he just turned it around to ask another question. Eventually, people just got tired of his games, and lost interest.

One thing about the old Interweb is that all is not always what it seems, nor are the people on it always what they seem.

Do not know this person, have just started reading her comments, and viewing the Threads she Authored. However, thus far, it is fairly clear that Christian fellowship is not what she is seeking IMO.

Anyway...............we are called to check out the spirits to see if they are of God........

p_rehbein · Jan 20, 2021

VickyK said:

What Church group are you a part of, and/or what Theological leaning are you?

p_rehbein · Jan 20, 2021

VickyK said:

Wrong. Completely wrong. It is ALL about Jesus just as the 1st Chapter of Genesis.

VickyK · Jan 20, 2021

p_rehbein said:

Genesis was composed before the birth of Jesus. That's like me saying George Floyd is referenced in the Fellowship of the Ring.

p_rehbein · Jan 20, 2021

Subhumanoidal said:

Jesus did not end. HE IS and always has been and always will be the 2nd Person of the Holy Trinity. Even when He took upon Himself the form of man and came to earth to establish Gods salvation plan, He was FULLY GOD and FULLY MAN. The answer you have given only slightly varies from the first answer I gave, and Posthuman gave the same answer I did. As you might notice, that answer did not register with the Author of the Thread, because that is not what she is seeking. Stay tuned to see the truth of the reason for the thread

p_rehbein · Jan 20, 2021

VickyK said:

You simply do not understand the Holy Trinity. Especially the 2nd Person of the Holy Trinity. Jesus the Christ. He IS and WAS and always WILL be Jesus the Christ.

In Genesis He is fully God and Jesus (who is LUCOS) the "living Word" and the One who created all there is. On earth, in the form of man He is FULLY God and FULLY man.........He never gave up His Divinity! Nor will He ever.

Why don't you just go ahead and tell us all what your purpose is for this Thread? Go ahead and explain your version of the Holy Trinity.........as it concerns Jesus the Christ?

VickyK · Jan 20, 2021

p_rehbein said:

Jesus did not end. HE IS and always has been and always will be the 2nd Person of the Holy Trinity. Even when He took upon Himself the form of man and came to earth to establish Gods salvation plan, He was FULLY GOD and FULLY MAN. The answer you have given only slightly varies from the first answer I gave, and Posthuman gave the same answer I did. As you might notice, that answer did not register with the Author of the Thread, because that is not what she is seeking. Stay tuned to see the truth of the reason for the thread

If he always has been, then he was the first human.

VickyK · Jan 20, 2021

p_rehbein said:

You simply do not understand the Holy Trinity. Especially the 2nd Person of the Holy Trinity. Jesus the Christ. He IS and WAS and always WILL be Jesus the Christ.

In Genesis He is fully God and Jesus (who is LUCOS) the "living Word" and the One who created all there is. On earth, in the form of man He is FULLY God and FULLY man.........He never gave up His Divinity! Nor will He ever.

Why don't you just go ahead and tell us all what your purpose is for this Thread? Go ahead and explain your version of the Holy Trinity.........as it concerns Jesus the Christ?

Genesis doesn't mention a Jesus, unless I'm mistaken.

Ahwatukee · Jan 20, 2021

VickyK said:

We know that the Lord/Jesus has always existed, but it was not until He came into the world that He became a man.

Therefore, when Christ came into the world, He said:

“Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,

but a body You prepared for Me.

In burnt offerings and sin offerings

You took no delight.

Then I said, ‘Here I am, it is written about Me in the scroll:

I have come to do Your will, O God.’ ”

"Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call Him Immanuel " Note: Immanuel means 'God with us'

The Father says regarding the Son:

"In the beginning, O Lord, You laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of Your hands.

They will perish, but You remain; they will all wear out like a garment.

You will roll them up like a robe; like a garment they will be changed; but You remain the same,

and Your years will never end.”

In order to lay the foundations of the earth and the creation of the heavens, He most certainly would have had to exist prior to His becoming a human being. And there are many more examples.

I was also the Lord with the two angels who met with Abraham before destroying Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities. Jesus also said to the Pharisees and scribes, "before Abraham was I AM." And they picked up stones to stone Him because He as a mere man was making himself out to be God.

VickyK · Jan 20, 2021

The trinity is the Father (God), the Son (Jesus) and the Holy Ghost.

The trinity definitely exists, naturally if I said it didn't I would be banned. It is definitely in the Bible.

VickyK · Jan 20, 2021

Ahwatukee said:

We know that the Lord/Jesus has always existed, but it was not until He came into the world that He became a man.

Therefore, when Christ came into the world, He said:

“Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,

but a body You prepared for Me.

In burnt offerings and sin offerings

You took no delight.

Then I said, ‘Here I am, it is written about Me in the scroll:

I have come to do Your will, O God.’ ”

"Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call Him Immanuel " Note: Immanuel means 'God with us'

The Father says regarding the Son:

"In the beginning, O Lord, You laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of Your hands.

They will perish, but You remain; they will all wear out like a garment.

You will roll them up like a robe; like a garment they will be changed; but You remain the same,

and Your years will never end.”

In order to lay the foundations of the earth and the creation of the heavens, He most certainly would have had to exist prior to His becoming a human being. And there are many more examples.

I was also the Lord with the two angels who met with Abraham before destroying Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities. Jesus also said to the Pharisees and scribes, "before Abraham was I AM." And they picked up stones to stone Him because He as a mere man was making himself out to be God.

Jesus is by definition fully human and fully divine. Therefore he did not exist prior to being human.

VickyK · Jan 20, 2021

1. Jesus is FHaFD and has always existed, and thus was the first man.

2. Jesus is not FHaFD and has always existed, and thus was not the first man.

3. Jesus is FHaFD and has not always existed, and thus was not the first man.

Vicky's Trilemma.

MattforJesus · Jan 20, 2021

VickyK said:

Jesus is God and man which God reconciled the world unto Himself in the person of Jesus Christ for He is God and man in harmony and all who follow Jesus having the Holy Spirit are in harmony with God.

Jesus is called God and as God has no beginning and is called the mighty God, and the Almighty, and is from everlasting, and God said there was no God formed before Him and there shall be no God formed after Him so Jesus cannot be a created God.

There is no such thing as a created God for God means supreme being and a creation cannot be a supreme being so Jesus is God that has no beginning.

But why would He be called a Son if He was not created and always existed.

According to Jesus as a man He is not the first man but Adam is the first man.

But Jesus is the beginning of creation, and the firstborn of the creatures although He was not born until 4000 years later so how can He be the beginning of creation which is according to His humanity.

That is because God call things that have not happened yet as though they already happened for if it is a plan of God to happen in the future it is the same as if it happened in the beginning for it will surely come to pass with no hinderance which the Bible says the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world, and the prophets blood shed from the foundation of the world, and all the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

In the beginning was the Word which is the plan of God to come in flesh revealing Himself physically which the Bible is the word of God for He is revealing Himself by words in a book, and the Word is God revealing himself physically which the Bible says that no person has seen God but the Son revealed Him, and Jesus told Philip that if has seen Him then He has seen the Father.

The Word is the plan of God to come in the future in flesh.

In the beginning was the plan of God to come in the future in flesh, and that plan was with God before He laid down the foundation of the world, and the plan was God manifest in the flesh.

All things were created with the plan to come in the future in flesh, and without that plan God would of not created anything He created.

So all creation hinges on God coming in flesh as the Lord Jesus Christ and all the works were finished from the foundation of the world, so that is how the man Christ Jesus can be the beginning of creation, and the firstborn among the creatures even though He was not born until 4000 years later like the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world even though it did not happen until 4000 years later.

For without the plan of God to come in the future in flesh He would of not created anything so Jesus is the first plan God had so He is the beginning of creation, and the reason creation is successful for Jesus will judge the angels and people.

Jesus as God has no beginning, but as a man is not the first man, but is the beginning of creation according to His humanity for He is the first plan of God, and had that plan before He started creation.

VickyK · Jan 20, 2021

MattforJesus said:

Jesus is God and man which God reconciled the world unto Himself in the person of Jesus Christ for He is God and man in harmony and all who follow Jesus having the Holy Spirit are in harmony with God.

Jesus is called God and as God has no beginning and is called the mighty God, and the Almighty, and is from everlasting, and God said there was no God formed before Him and there shall be no God formed after Him so Jesus cannot be a created God.

There is no such thing as a created God for God means supreme being and a creation cannot be a supreme being so Jesus is God that has no beginning.

But why would He be called a Son if He was not created and always existed.

According to Jesus as a man He is not the first man but Adam is the first man.

But Jesus is the beginning of creation, and the firstborn of the creatures although He was not born until 4000 years later so how can He be the beginning of creation which is according to His humanity.

That is because God call things that have not happened yet as though they already happened for if it is a plan of God to happen in the future it is the same as if it happened in the beginning for it will surely come to pass with no hinderance which the Bible says the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world, and the prophets blood shed from the foundation of the world, and all the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

In the beginning was the Word which is the plan of God to come in flesh revealing Himself physically which the Bible is the word of God for He is revealing Himself by words in a book, and the Word is God revealing himself physically which the Bible says that no person has seen God but the Son revealed Him, and Jesus told Philip that if has seen Him then He has seen the Father.

The Word is the plan of God to come in the future in flesh.

In the beginning was the plan of God to come in the future in flesh, and that plan was with God before He laid down the foundation of the world, and the plan was God manifest in the flesh.

All things were created with the plan to come in the future in flesh, and without that plan God would of not created anything He created.

So all creation hinges on God coming in flesh as the Lord Jesus Christ and all the works were finished from the foundation of the world, so that is how the man Christ Jesus can be the beginning of creation, and the firstborn among the creatures even though He was not born until 4000 years later like the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world even though it did not happen until 4000 years later.

For without the plan of God to come in the future in flesh He would of not created anything so Jesus is the first plan God had so He is the beginning of creation, and the reason creation is successful for Jesus will judge the angels and people.

Jesus as God has no beginning, but as a man is not the first man, but is the beginning of creation according to His humanity for He is the first plan of God, and had that plan before He started creation.

1. Jesus is FHaFD and has always existed, and thus was the first man.

2. Jesus is not FHaFD and has always existed, and thus was not the first man.

3. Jesus is FHaFD and has not always existed, and thus was not the first man.

Ahwatukee · Jan 20, 2021

VickyK said:

Did you read the scriptures I provided stating that He created the heavens and the earth?

Did you also read the following:

"By this you will know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God."

The scripture above is saying, if you confess that Jesus existed before and has come in the flesh, then you do not have the Spirit of God.

John 1:1 also says that Jesus is the Word of God and that He was in the beginning with God and the Word was God.

Jesus also said, "before Abraham was, I AM." That alone demonstrates that the Lord existed with God and as God prior to His being born as a human being.

By your own statement, you said that Jesus was fully human and fully divine, which means that He would have had to exist prior to appearing as a human being. Further, since scripture states that He created the heavens and the earth, then He would have had to have existed prior to appearing in the flesh.

In another scripture Jesus said "I saw Satan cast out of heaven like lightning."

Jesus, as the Lord, existed before He became a man.

Ahwatukee · Jan 20, 2021

VickyK said:

Your claim above that Jesus is fully human and fully divine supports His eternal existence. If He was/is fully divine, then He existed before.

The fact that Jesus said, "Before Abraham was, I AM" demonstrates His existence prior to coming in the flesh.

VickyK · Jan 20, 2021

Ahwatukee said:

Did you read the scriptures I provided stating that He created the heavens and the earth?

Did you also read the following:

"By this you will know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God."

The scripture above is saying, if you confess that Jesus existed before and has come in the flesh, then you do not have the Spirit of God.

John 1:1 also says that Jesus is the Word of God and that He was in the beginning with God and the Word was God.

Jesus also said, "before Abraham was, I AM." That alone demonstrates that the Lord existed with God and as God prior to His being born as a human being.

By your own statement, you said that Jesus was fully human and fully divine, which means that He would have had to exist prior to appearing as a human being. Further, since scripture states that He created the heavens and the earth, then He would have had to have existed prior to appearing in the flesh.

In another scripture Jesus said "I saw Satan cast out of heaven like lightning."

Jesus, as the Lord, existed before He became a man.

God did. Not Jesus. Otherwise Genesis would say 'Jesus created the heavens and the oceans'. Why would he have to exist prior to being born as a human being?

Ahwatukee · Jan 20, 2021

VickyK said:

"In the beginning was the Word. And the Word was with God. And the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God.

If the Father is saying regarding the Son, the He created the heavens and the earth, how do you figure that Jesus did not exist as the Word of God prior to His appearing in the flesh.

All you are doing right now, is rejecting every sound teaching of scripture. Why don't you attempt to give an answer to any of those scriptures that I provided instead of just repeating the same thing.

Ahwatukee · Jan 20, 2021

VickyK said:

Read the following and understand what God the Father is saying regarding the Son:

===========================================================================

About about the Son He (The Father) says:

“Your throne, O God, endures forever and ever,

and justice is the scepter of Your kingdom.

You have loved righteousness

and hated wickedness;

therefore God, Your God, has anointed You

above Your companions with the oil of joy.”

And:

“In the beginning, O Lord, You laid the foundations of the earth,

and the heavens are the work of Your hands.

They will perish, but You remain;

they will all wear out like a garment.

You will roll them up like a robe;

like a garment they will be changed;

but You remain the same,

and Your years will never end.”

=========================================================

In the above scripture, God the Father is speaking about Jesus before He appeared in the flesh. And God the Father refers to His Son who is Jesus in the flesh, as God.

Blackpowderduelist · Jan 20, 2021

VickyK said:

It's about Jesus. " And the word became flesh, and dwelt among us"

Was Jesus the first man?

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