Must we repent in order to be forgiven?

[throughfaith]

Sure...you can’t be separated from God’s love...but is that the same as saying once you’re saved you’re always saved?

Romans‬ ‭5:8‬ ‭
But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.​

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Once saved ,stay saved is remaining in God's love . Thats why he seals UNTO the day of redemption.
When you read the book of philippians ask your self if it lines up with what you believe. Its about serving others , selflessness, and minding the things of others . This goal does not fit works salvation .

 

[throughfaith]

Sure...you can’t be separated from God’s love...but is that the same as saying once you’re saved you’re always saved?

Romans‬ ‭5:8‬ ‭
But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.​

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3Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.

4Look NOT every man on his OWN things, but every man also on the things of OTHERS .

5¶Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

19¶But I trust in the Lord Jesus to send Timotheus shortly unto you, that I also may be of good comfort, when I know your state.

20For I have no man likeminded, who will naturally care for your state.

21For all SEEK THEIR OWN , not the things which are Jesus Christ's.

None of the book of philippians is possible with conditional salvation . You will always be focusing on your self ,to 'keep yourself ' . ALL of what Paul preaches is only possible with assurance and certainty . You will only do for others out of fear . You will forgive to be forgiven, rather than BECAUSE you ARE forgiven. You will have no pure motive .

 

[Lisamn]

Once saved ,stay saved is remaining in God's love . Thats why he seals UNTO the day of redemption.
When you read the book of philippians ask your self if it lines up with what you believe. Its about serving others , selflessness, and minding the things of others . This goal does not fit works salvation .

I’m not selling works salvation. I’m just trying to say that you are not osas...scripture doesn’t support it.

How do you remain in God’s love and how does that seal you unto the day of redemption?

Describing Philippians that way..seems like you might be works based.

God’s love doesn’t mean He osas you. You must stay in the faith

‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:1-2‬ ‭
Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.
​

Do not fall away...

‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭4:1‬ ‭
But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons.​

Or shrink back...

Hebrews‬ ‭10:38-39‬ ‭
“BUT MY RIGHTEOUS ONE SHALL LIVE BY FAITH; AND IF HE SHRINKS BACK, MY SOUL HAS NO PLEASURE IN HIM. But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul.​

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[Lisamn]

3Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.

4Look NOT every man on his OWN things, but every man also on the things of OTHERS .

5¶Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

19¶But I trust in the Lord Jesus to send Timotheus shortly unto you, that I also may be of good comfort, when I know your state.

20For I have no man likeminded, who will naturally care for your state.

21For all SEEK THEIR OWN , not the things which are Jesus Christ's.

None of the book of philippians is possible with conditional salvation . You will always be focusing on your self ,to 'keep yourself ' . ALL of what Paul preaches is only possible with assurance and certainty . You will only do for others out of fear . You will forgive to be forgiven, rather than BECAUSE you ARE forgiven. You will have no pure motive .

Oops...here it is again....you have to abide in God..He is the vine and we just branches..if..yep it says if, if we abide in Him and He in us..we can bear much fruit...that’s the only way. To abide in God you have to keep the faith.
Then notice what happens if you don’t abide in God...

‭‭John‬ ‭15:4-6‬ ‭
Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me. I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.
​

 

[throughfaith]

I’m not selling works salvation. I’m just trying to say that you are not osas...scripture doesn’t support it.

How do you remain in God’s love and how does that seal you unto the day of redemption?

Describing Philippians that way..seems like you might be works based.

God’s love doesn’t mean He osas you. You must stay in the faith

‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:1-2‬ ‭
Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.
​

Do not fall away...

‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭4:1‬ ‭
But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons.​

Or shrink back...

Hebrews‬ ‭10:38-39‬ ‭
“BUT MY RIGHTEOUS ONE SHALL LIVE BY FAITH; AND IF HE SHRINKS BACK, MY SOUL HAS NO PLEASURE IN HIM. But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul.​

‭‭

Ok ,putting aside the verses your using out of context . please tell me how you keep in the faith? Whats the list ?

 

[throughfaith]

Oops...here it is again....you have to abide in God..He is the vine and we just branches..if..yep it says if, if we abide in Him and He in us..we can bear much fruit...that’s the only way. To abide in God you have to keep the faith.
Then notice what happens if you don’t abide in God...

‭‭John‬ ‭15:4-6‬ ‭
Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me. I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.
​

I really don't know how you sleep at night . You do not know if you will make it to heaven or not .

 

[Lisamn]

Ok ,putting aside the verses your using out of context . please tell me how you keep in the faith? Whats the list ?

And another verse about how we can fall away...by the deceitfulness of sin..another way is by doctrines of demons and lying spirits. What we must do is hold fast the beginning of assurance. How are we saved...by believing in Jesus...got to stick to what you first heard and was saved by.

Hebrews‬ ‭3:12-19‬ ‭
Take care, brethren, that there not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away from the living God. But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called “Today,” so that none of you will be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end, while it is said, “TODAY IF YOU HEAR HIS VOICE, DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS, AS WHEN THEY PROVOKED ME.” For who provoked Him when they had heard? Indeed, did not all those who came out of Egypt led by Moses? And with whom was He angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies fell in the wilderness? And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who were disobedient? So we see that they were not able to enter because of unbelief.​

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I’m not using any verses out of context...they don’t fit your narrative and you don’t know what to do with them. They are pretty plain in what they state.

 

[Lisamn]

I really don't know how you sleep at night . You do not know if you will make it to heaven or not .

What do you mean...I’m saved by the blood of Jesus...and I make sure I stay in the faith

Jude‬ ‭1:20-21‬ ‭
But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit, keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting anxiously for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to eternal life.
‭‭​

and...we need to work out our salvation with fear and trembling...no matter what we are cleaving to God. Because that really doesn’t sound like osas.

Philippians‬ ‭2:12-13‬ ‭
So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.
‭‭​

 

[throughfaith]

What do you mean...I’m saved by the blood of Jesus...and I make sure I stay in the faith

Jude‬ ‭1:20-21‬ ‭
But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit, keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting anxiously for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to eternal life.
‭‭​

and...we need to work out our salvation with fear and trembling...no matter what we are cleaving to God. Because that really doesn’t sound like osas.

Philippians‬ ‭2:12-13‬ ‭
So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.
‭‭​

And there it is " ...and I make sure I stay in the faith" At least your up front about it , most don't admit this . I.d like to know what is the list you keep to ensure this ? And like I said you do not know if you will make it . It depends on you .

 

[Lisamn]

And there it is " ...and I make sure I stay in the faith" At least your up front about it , most don't admit this . I.d like to know what is the list you keep to ensure this ? And like I said you do not know if you will make it . It depends on you .

What you don’t have to do that? You just believe that you’re always saved...is that how you do it?

 

[throughfaith]

What do you mean...I’m saved by the blood of Jesus...and I make sure I stay in the faith

Jude‬ ‭1:20-21‬ ‭
But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit, keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting anxiously for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to eternal life.
‭‭​

and...we need to work out our salvation with fear and trembling...no matter what we are cleaving to God. Because that really doesn’t sound like osas.

Philippians‬ ‭2:12-13‬ ‭
So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.
‭‭​

Yes ,its not work FOR your salvation . But rather through selflessness ( which is impossible with your doctrines) the salvation that a person has is encouraged ,even through persecution and suffering is to keep working for the furtherance of the Gospel as Paul gives example of his salvation and how even in chains it 'worked out 'for the furtherance of the gospel ..I'm sure when you read again you might see this context.

 

[Lisamn]

Yes ,its not work FOR your salvation . But rather through selflessness ( which is impossible with your doctrines) the salvation that a person has is encouraged ,even through persecution and suffering is to keep working for the furtherance of the Gospel as Paul gives example of his salvation and how even in chains it 'worked out 'for the furtherance of the gospel ..I'm sure when you read again you might see this context.

So your actual doctrine is works through selflessness.

How did you become saved?

 

[throughfaith]

What you don’t have to do that? You just believe that you’re always saved...is that how you do it?

Is that how I do what? Everything I do is out of love and because I am saved and secure . I trust on the promises of God ..The Gospel really is good news and the boldness to share it ,just like Paul , comes from security not fear .

 

[throughfaith]

So your actual doctrine is works through selflessness.

How did you become saved?

No selflessness will never come from the conditions ,because you will do, love, forgive to save yourself and you will never have the assurance to focus on others .

 

[throughfaith]

So your actual doctrine is works through selflessness.

How did you become saved?

Through regeneration, and being sealed by the Holy Spirit which is unto glorification. How did I recieve Jesus? John 1.12 . 1 cor 1.21 . Eph 1 .12-13

 

[throughfaith]

So your actual doctrine is works through selflessness.

How did you become saved?

How did you become saved?

 

[throughfaith]

No it doesn’t. The Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith. Tells me that you have to be of the faith to fall away from it.

The Spirit doesn’t say some who thought they were of the faith fell away or the Spirit says they weren’t really saved and fell away but that some will fall away from the faith and He explicitly says this..there are no ifs, ands or butts.

There is no verse that says a believer today can be un birthed , un justified, un seated in heavenly places , un sealed by the Holy spirit , un immersed into the body of Christ , un predestined to the Adoption, un changed as a new creature ect ect

 

[throughfaith]

20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

Again, there is no refuting the fact that this scripture states after they have ESCAPED the pollution of the world through the knowledge of Christ, they are AGAIN ENTANGLED therein, and OVERCOME

21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

Read the words. it had been better for them NOT TO HAVE KNOWN the way of righteousness, than, AFTER THEY HAVE KNOWN IT, to TURN from the holy commandment

22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

I find it curious that your teachers found it needful to assign gender to the the stated proverb (a meaningless gesture). But the proverb itself confirms that like a dog those who have once known righteousness to turn back to sin, like a sow who was cleaned to turn back to wallow in filth.

“They have escaped the pollutions of the world.” They straightened up and got cleaned up. 2) “Through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.” Notice it is not “the knowledge of OUR Lord Jesus Christ” as it was back in 2 Peter 1:8. Peter doesn’t include himself with these people in any way, at any time. The implication is not only that they aren’t saved, but they never were saved. 3) “They are again entangled therein and overcome.” They go back to what they left. These people have the truth preached to them, which in the Tribulation is salvation by faith in Jesus Christ and keeping the commandments (Rev. 12:17 and 14:12). They start keeping the commandments and living right, but they never do personally receive Christ. They “turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them” (vs. 21). In this case, “the holy commandment” was a reference to 1 John 3:23. “And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.” So the “knowledge” they had of Jesus Christ was the knowledge Satan and the devils have (Mark 1:24; Acts 16:17, 19:15). When it comes to the deity of Jesus Christ, all the devils are “Fundamentalists.” It doesn’t do them any more good than believing in one God (James 2:19).

 

[Lisamn]

Is that how I do what? Everything I do is out of love and because I am saved and secure . I trust on the promises of God ..The Gospel really is good news and the boldness to share it ,just like Paul , comes from security not fear .

You seem to think you’re saved because you believe in osas and works...at least that’s what I’m getting out of your responses.

I’ve given you many verses that tell you that you aren’t secure...that should have you wondering about osas, honestly.

No selflessness will never come from the conditions ,because you will do, love, forgive to save yourself and you will never have the assurance to focus on others .

I don’t need the assurance of osas to look to others. I have the assurance that God is my God and He sent His Son to save me...its in gratitude that I want to do the works He’s prepared for me...not because I have some sort of guarantee.

How did you become saved?

Its not a trick question.
To be saved one must believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. That is..that He is God, that he came to take the punishment for our sins upon Himself, He died on the cross and rose again 3 days later. To believe that you are the sinner that God says you are and that you need to believe on what Jesus has done to be saved from the punishment of sin..the lake of fire where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth. One must not stray even a little from that....or are you still saved?
If say you don’t believe Jesus is God anymore but a moral person...are you still saved? If after the years go by you decided that you like what the catholics or the hindus...etc... are doing better are you still saved...or have you fallen from the faith you once had?

That’s what I’m talking about.

Because isn’t that what is implied by falling away from the faith? You believed something to be saved..but now you don’t believe it anymore..or don’t believe some of it anymore...are you still saved?

People like to say that o those people weren’t really saved..but the Bible doesn’t lump them all in that category...the Bible comes out and says that some will fall away from the faith. If you don’t think that implies that someone had faith in the first place..then maybe should pray about it.

 

[Lisamn]

There is no verse that says a believer today can be un birthed , un justified, un seated in heavenly places , un sealed by the Holy spirit , un immersed into the body of Christ , un predestined to the Adoption, un changed as a new creature ect ect

Yes...there are...I’ve already quoted you some. It’s maturity to accept that people will fall away from the faith and lose their salvation and not keep on the myth that it can’t happen when the Bible states it can. Hebrews 6:6 proves you wrong...as does many other verses.

Hebrews‬ ‭6:1, 4-6‬ ‭
Therefore leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God,

For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.​

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